Please Provide an Experienced Recommendation

[Norselord]

Dear Brewers,

I have to admit, that i have fallen off the wagon.
It has been 4 months since my last brew-day.
I find that my methods are too time intensive to also allow me to be a daddy, as well as the domestic chef/gardener/plumber/auto-mechanic/cleaning maid/dog-sitter/general contractor.

But...

I still want to brew. I just need it to be less of a time-suck; or at the very least have the pauses between activities be highly predictable so that i can schedule other tasks.

Here is where your electric brewing expertise comes in!

I am looking for a system that will allow me to brew batches in various volumes (5-20 gallons). 5 gallons for one-off recipes, or tests; 20 gallons for established recipes i know i will want year-round.

I am looking for the highest degree of automation. Ideally the steps i would take are to make water chemistry adjustments, put grain into the mash tun, program a hop schedule. I want the system to automatically hit a series of mash temps, fill boil kettle, bring to a boil, automatically make hop additions. I will take it from end of boil to fermentation myself.

The system should be electric, and should NOT be BIAB.

Please respond with suggested systems, and any links or personal reviews.

Thank you team homebrewtalk!

- Norselord.

 

[BrunDog]

You are my kind of guy! Unfortunately this type of system must be built and cannot be purchased AFAIK. There are multiple automated breweries throughout this forum... might need to spend some late night searching looking through the designs you like. My build thread, linked in my sig is one that might interest you. I have always been a fan of @JonW 's build too. @canmorebrewguy 's is sweet. @HopRodGarage 's is off the hook. I will add some others as I think about them.

 

[Norselord]

Luckily I am a chemical engineer by training and water treatment engineer by profession. Pumps, pipes, and automation don't scare me.

However, the time-suck is still in effect.

I really don't think i can afford to spend 400+ hours building and designing a brew system to save 3-4 hours of work twice a month...

 

[BrunDog]

Then you know Good/Fast/Cheap. Pick two!

 

[cubalz]

Have you given any thought to the Pico Brew Zymatic?

 

[h22lude]

Any reason for not going BIAB? Full volume e-BIAB in one kettle is a quick and easy clean up. Time saver.

 

[Norselord]

Any reason for not going BIAB? Full volume e-BIAB in one kettle is a quick and easy clean up. Time saver.

I am not interested in doing BIAB. I don't have a pulley system, don't want to deal with a pulley system for 20 gallong batches. I want to do step mashing.

 

[Norselord]

Have you given any thought to the Pico Brew Zymatic?

I want to do step-mashes.
I want to do volumes between 5 and 20 gallons.

Considered Pico Brew and rejected it.

 

[Norselord]

Then you know Good/Fast/Cheap. Pick two!

I am willing to wait on getting something that will be good and cheap.

 

[BrunDog]

I am willing to wait on getting something that will be good and cheap.

OK... I was going to say PM me if you want to talk about possibly getting something built. But it wouldn't be cheap!

 

[itsnotrequired]

if money isn't an issue, spike brewing sells 'turnkey' electric systems that include a pre-assembled control panel, kettles, pumps, valves, coils, tubing, elements, etc. hell, they even include a table. available in multiple sizes, including 20 gallon batches. of course, it would be on you to develop the additional tech you are looking for like automatic grain addition, etc. but the system would get you well on the way.

or buy this:

https://www.hammacher.com/Product/12157

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

have you considered no-chill or overnight mashing? those both work to save some time on brew day for me, or at least make it so I can get the entire 5 gallon brew or part of a 10 gallon brew done at night when the kids are in bed. It's allowed me to keep it up despite many other demands with two kids.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[itsnotrequired]

regarding schedule/time for brewing, i'm also juggling the family angle. i use a herms three-vessel electric setup and it does offer some 'predictability' on brew day. when mashing, i know the pumps and controller will keep the mash at constant temp so it is sort of a set-and-forget situation for the next hour or so. similar when i fly sparge, it is another hour+ where i can walk away after flow rates are balanced. if you have a long boil batch, another opportunity to gets some time back.

another thing i have found that is helpful: getting up early. yeah, it can suck but there is a lot that can get done before the family gets up. i start my brew days at 4:30 in the morning. sundays work good since the family gets back from church and i'm in the final stages of cleanup so i don't really miss any time with them. see above regarding mash, i usually go back to bed while mashing to catch up on sleep.

 

[Norselord]

regarding schedule/time for brewing, i'm also juggling the family angle. i use a herms three-vessel electric setup and it does offer some 'predictability' on brew day. when mashing, i know the pumps and controller will keep the mash at constant temp so it is sort of a set-and-forget situation for the next hour or so. similar when i fly sparge, it is another hour+ where i can walk away after flow rates are balanced. if you have a long boil batch, another opportunity to gets some time back.

another thing i have found that is helpful: getting up early. yeah, it can suck but there is a lot that can get done before the family gets up. i start my brew days at 4:30 in the morning. sundays work good since the family gets back from church and i'm in the final stages of cleanup so i don't really miss any time with them. see above regarding mash, i usually go back to bed while mashing to catch up on sleep.

This is the kind of thing i am talking about. Got any details on your system?

 

[Norselord]

if money isn't an issue, spike brewing sells 'turnkey' electric systems that include a pre-assembled control panel, kettles, pumps, valves, coils, tubing, elements, etc. hell, they even include a table. available in multiple sizes, including 20 gallon batches. of course, it would be on you to develop the additional tech you are looking for like automatic grain addition, etc. but the system would get you well on the way.

or buy this:

https://www.hammacher.com/Product/12157

RE: hammacher - this is a bit out of my price range. This is for pro-athletes, or internet millionaires who want to brew up 15 gallon batches.

A friend of mine is looking at buying Spike's 1bbl system. What is the smallest batch you can make on each system?

 

[auburntsts]

RE: hammacher - this is a bit out of my price range. This is for pro-athletes, or internet millionaires who want to brew up 15 gallon batches.

A friend of mine is looking at buying Spike's 1bbl system. What is the smallest batch you can make on each system?

Spike's system comes in 10, 15, 20, 30, and 50 gal (1BBL) sizes so you can size it to your batch size. FWIW, a 15 gal system can handle both 5 & 10 gal batches. You could also roll your own by buying panels from places like the Electric Brewery, http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel and Electric Brew Supply
https://ebrewsupply.com/ and add physical components as desired. For more automation you'd most likely want something like what BruControl offers.

 

[itsnotrequired]

This is the kind of thing i am talking about. Got any details on your system?

it is more-or-less a kal clone. i don't have any automated valves or grain dumping or anything fancy like that. i still need to open/close valves, move hoses, start/stop pumps, etc. the most automated component is the controller for the heating elements. set a temp and the temperature probes, pid controller, ssrs and heating elements work together to maintain the temp.

RE: hammacher - this is a bit out of my price range. This is for pro-athletes, or internet millionaires who want to brew up 15 gallon batches.

A friend of mine is looking at buying Spike's 1bbl system. What is the smallest batch you can make on each system?

that hammacher suggestion was a joke.

not sure what the minimum size is on the spike setup, you'd have to ask them. it is mostly a function of the heating element elevation within the kettle. the heating elements need to be covered with liquid so that elevation sets the minimum batch size. i have 20 gallon kettles and can do either 5 or 10 gallon batches with ease. could probably squeeze in a 15 gallon batch of something light if i needed to.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I'm happy to draw up some dimensions on what I did, but I have no cure for the time-to-build issue. That bites us all in the butt at some point. Brew rigs can be labor intensive, but its fun and definitely rewarding when you tap that first pint. My biggest mistake was building during the miserable southern California summer. Some days I just gave up and went back inside.

This is my 3rd rig. I merged some Kal concepts, some Doug concepts, and some Sabco concepts into one package. Electric and propane (although I've never used the propane, maybe someday for rotating batches). I wanted portable and on wheels, and had no interest in BIAB (i'm not against it, its just not my thing). Probably into it for about 2K. If you build, shop smart and don't be in a hurry.

 

[h22lude]

I am not interested in doing BIAB. I don't have a pulley system, don't want to deal with a pulley system for 20 gallong batches.

That is fair enough. Dealing with the bag can be annoying but I will say a pulley system is very easy to install and use. My pulley will handle hundreds of pounds which is plenty for 20 gallons.

I want to do step mashing.

This is the second time I have read this today. Why do you think BIAB can't do step mashing? BIAB is no different than any other type of brewing. You can do step mashing, decoction mashing, batch sparging, fly sparging. BIAB is just a filter.

 

[Norselord]

I'm happy to draw up some dimensions on what I did, but I have no cure for the time-to-build issue. That bites us all in the butt at some point. Brew rigs can be labor intensive, but its fun and definitely rewarding when you tap that first pint. My biggest mistake was building during the miserable southern California summer. Some days I just gave up and went back inside.

This is my 3rd rig. I merged some Kal concepts, some Doug concepts, and some Sabco concepts into one package. Electric and propane (although I've never used the propane, maybe someday for rotating batches). I wanted portable and on wheels, and had no interest in BIAB (i'm not against it, its just not my thing). Probably into it for about 2K. If you build, shop smart and don't be in a hurry.

Can you draw up a P&ID and process flow diagram with some suggested parts?

$2K is well within the budget and most of that work looks like things i can do - except for maybe the welding...

 

[Norselord]

That is fair enough. Dealing with the bag can be annoying but I will say a pulley system is very easy to install and use. My pulley will handle hundreds of pounds which is plenty for 20 gallons.



This is the second time I have read this today. Why do you think BIAB can't do step mashing? BIAB is no different than any other type of brewing. You can do step mashing, decoction mashing, batch sparging, fly sparging. BIAB is just a filter.

I don't want to do BIAB.
I also don't want this thread to devolve into a BIAB debate.

 

[stz]

I know you have a list of things you want to do, but food for thought/for me.

Fill your HLT with hot water so the heat up time is very low or put your HLT on a timer, or better a PID controller so you can set and forget it until ready to mash. Why do you want to do stepped mashes? They complicate things enormously and are only really worth pursuing if you are dedicated to using poorly modified malt. Try and mash in within less than 15 minutes. Mash for at least 45 minutes. Forget sparging, batch sparge at 77-80C, it'll knock 1-1.5 hours off your brew day. 80C is hot, but will halt enzymatic activity and aid run off/collection. Start your boil as soon as you physically can (covered elements, few inches if gas). Consider 30 minute boils. I'm loath to go less than 30 minutes, but if I don't need the bittering, don't need the evaporation, don't want the caramelisation then why go 60 minutes to save a few grams of high AA bittering hops? A lot of beers I've made with a ton of late hop additions don't need much boil hops, my stouts, porters etc don't mind a few more boil hops to get the IBU's up as late hopping is low/not existent so absorption is low as well as evaporation. Go no chill or upgrade your chilling so you can chill in one pass. Maybe collect a little warmer than you like and pitch a few hours later if you have a good fermentation chamber to bring it down rapidly. Maybe brew at higher gravity and dilute to hit volumes instead of doing full size boils. Maybe brew partial extract to get your volumes instead of mashing a 20gal batch.

Filling my HLT with already hot water reduced my heat up time to 20 minutes. Mashing for 45 and batch sparging means I've run off within 1.5 hours. A 30 minute boil and a single pass through the heat exchanger gets me around 28C with 30 minutes to collect 10 gallons. Seal the wort and both fermenters go into my temperture controlled chest freezer. I pitch after I've cleaned up. Brew day is down to around 4 hours at the moment. Previously I'd start my strike water heating at 6am and I wouldn't be mashing in until mid morning. I can't really reduce the length of the mash, sparge, boil and clean up at this point so automation wouldn't help.

Also massively simplify your hopping. Do one boil addition and one knock out addition. Forget 30, 20, 15, 10, 5 etc just adjust your recipes. Don't do a hop stand. Don't do a whirlpool or low temperature hop stand. 30 minute boil with a tiny amount of bittering hops and everything else from a flame out addition and variable length hop stand or low temperature hop stand has had nothing but positive impact upon my beers (not economy however!). A auto dispensing hop gadget sounds cool? But probably more work than it saves.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Can you draw up a P&ID and process flow diagram with some suggested parts?

$2K is well within the budget and most of that work looks like things i can do - except for maybe the welding...

Kal's website has all that and very details parts lists. There's options to just about everything and your can absolutely keep costs down. For example, I didn't feel the need for a voltage and amperage meter (I consider it eye-candy). You also don't need all the indicator lights. Use cheaper toggle switches, if the switch is up, you know its on, you don't have to have a pretty light. Functionality will be the same. You can shop amazon, digikey, mouser, and other sources to lower some of the costs. Auber instruments also has a bunch of parts (mostly offshore stuff, but they work fine)

Kettles are your choice. Used kegs on craigslist and other market sites can be had for $25 to $50 each. If you want new and pretty stainless pots (made if the very same material as a sanke keg), get out your piggy bank. You don't need a Tig welder. Silver soldering works perfectly.

Copper vs. stainless. Now there's a can of worms. Some will say copper will do bad things. I say otherwise. There are many commercial breweries in operation today using copper kettles and lines. Coppers heat characteristics are better than stainless ten-fold. Keep it clean and use the correct chemicals. Or go stainless. No harm in either.

Frame... If you don't need propane and want to go full electric, shop for a bench, table, roller rack from a used restaurant supply house. Or just a steel workbench from harbor freight. Way cheaper than paying someone to build something. If you know a welder and have a metal supplier in the area, go for it. Welding up a frame is a 3 beer job. Paint it or pay a couple hundred to have it powder coated. Your choice.

Elements... brewhardware, brewershardware, kals site, amazon. No consensus and they all should work fine. Everyone stocks "the best". Pick one and someone will say it will rust, another person says it wont. Options also on element covers from home depot hokey to crazy expensive.

Fittings... Shop around!!! Prices vary like crazy. I bought quite a bit from pro flow dynamics in corona California.

So many options, its mind boggling... But its not rocket science

 

[BeardedBrews]

I want the system to automatically hit a series of mash temps, fill boil kettle, bring to a boil, automatically make hop additions.

I think Brew-Boss may be the only pre-built controller that has the automation you're talking about (I haven't seen others selling the hop dispensing).

http://www.brew-boss.com/Professional-Brewing-System-p/bbpro-controller.htm


They might not be my first choice for a heavily automated panel, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

might be easier and cheaper to offload some of your other activities, such as the domestic chef/gardener/plumber/auto-mechanic/cleaning maid/dog-sitter/general contractor, and simply continue brewing with your current rig.
...know what I mean?

 

[Norselord]

I know you have a list of things you want to do, but food for thought/for me.

Fill your HLT with hot water so the heat up time is very low or put your HLT on a timer, or better a PID controller so you can set and forget it until ready to mash. Why do you want to do stepped mashes? They complicate things enormously and are only really worth pursuing if you are dedicated to using poorly modified malt. Try and mash in within less than 15 minutes. Mash for at least 45 minutes. Forget sparging, batch sparge at 77-80C, it'll knock 1-1.5 hours off your brew day. 80C is hot, but will halt enzymatic activity and aid run off/collection. Start your boil as soon as you physically can (covered elements, few inches if gas). Consider 30 minute boils. I'm loath to go less than 30 minutes, but if I don't need the bittering, don't need the evaporation, don't want the caramelisation then why go 60 minutes to save a few grams of high AA bittering hops? A lot of beers I've made with a ton of late hop additions don't need much boil hops, my stouts, porters etc don't mind a few more boil hops to get the IBU's up as late hopping is low/not existent so absorption is low as well as evaporation. Go no chill or upgrade your chilling so you can chill in one pass. Maybe collect a little warmer than you like and pitch a few hours later if you have a good fermentation chamber to bring it down rapidly. Maybe brew at higher gravity and dilute to hit volumes instead of doing full size boils. Maybe brew partial extract to get your volumes instead of mashing a 20gal batch.

Filling my HLT with already hot water reduced my heat up time to 20 minutes. Mashing for 45 and batch sparging means I've run off within 1.5 hours. A 30 minute boil and a single pass through the heat exchanger gets me around 28C with 30 minutes to collect 10 gallons. Seal the wort and both fermenters go into my temperture controlled chest freezer. I pitch after I've cleaned up. Brew day is down to around 4 hours at the moment. Previously I'd start my strike water heating at 6am and I wouldn't be mashing in until mid morning. I can't really reduce the length of the mash, sparge, boil and clean up at this point so automation wouldn't help.

Also massively simplify your hopping. Do one boil addition and one knock out addition. Forget 30, 20, 15, 10, 5 etc just adjust your recipes. Don't do a hop stand. Don't do a whirlpool or low temperature hop stand. 30 minute boil with a tiny amount of bittering hops and everything else from a flame out addition and variable length hop stand or low temperature hop stand has had nothing but positive impact upon my beers (not economy however!). A auto dispensing hop gadget sounds cool? But probably more work than it saves.

I am really just looking for an electric brew setup that is as automated as possible.

I appreciate all of the advice, but they are essentially off-topic. Please limit responses to electric brewing equipment suggestions

 

[Norselord]

might be easier and cheaper to offload some of your other activities, such as the domestic chef/gardener/plumber/auto-mechanic/cleaning maid/dog-sitter/general contractor, and simply continue brewing with your current rig.
...know what I mean?

I am going to PM you SWMBO's personal cellphone# and if you manage to negotiate my way out of those jobs, i will hire you as my personal assistant!

 

[Silentdrinker]

My system is pretty much what you want. I can do 5-20g bathes and have the ability to do all the automation. It’ll take a lot of time to build though. I had the parts for a couple years. Once I finally got to it, I built it within a few weeks including the stand and temp probes. But I’ve been slowly adding things to it.

I also have it setup to split the boil so I can try different hop additions and make two for one essentially.

I built a 50a BCS 462 panel sourcing all my parts cheap via China direct. I tear apart electronics to salvage parts. I used a dishwasher fill pump to automate the filling process. I have a lot of motors, so now I’m in the process of motorizing my mill and attaching it to the frame with an auger that’ll allow me to automate the dough in by crushing the grain and shooting it into the tun that’ll have a motorized rake.

The hop additions are automated via small 5v servos. I use those ss dry hoppers that fit into the corny keg. It’s basically a submersible hop spider. I fill each with the hops or addition needed then the timer on the BCS will activate the servo to drop the hopper into the boil.

You can automate the liquid transfer via Servo controlled ball valves, but it’s sketchy when using a non self priming motor. If it’s important enough, you could automate a bleeder valve and use flow meters.

It’s all overkill but it’s fun. I love waking up and starting my brew day before getting out of bed.

Now automating the clean up would be ideal.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I am really just looking for an electric brew setup that is as automated as possible.

A basic electric rig with PID's and a copy of beersmith, is about as automated as it gets without getting into crazy costs. In many ways, it can be less work than operating a commercial system. Beyond temp control, its flow control. You can either integrate a few more valves or move around hot dripping tubing. On a small scale rig, automating those valves makes no sense. You still have to push a button, move a switch, or edit the program to actuate it at the right time. Why not just move the valve yourself?

Awareness of the operation, reacting to unexpected differences from brew to brew, understand how each recipe and batch size will differ during brewing, and being able to adjust things on the fly, is the responsibility (and experience level) of the brewer no matter what level of automation is available.

As a 25 year robotics and automation engineer, i'll say this... Yes, there is probably an automation solution to just about everything if you have the time, space and money to dedicate. But, the more you automate, the more failure points and complexity you add. You can also cause process limitations by over automating. I've designed some pretty crazy stuff over the years for different clients, and could do a lot of widgets for brewing, but it wont make better beer, it will only burn my money and free time with no return. "Because it would be cool" is no longer a valid reason for me to geek out or design something. My goal is to always learn more about brewing and thus make even more styles of even tastier beers.

You are on the right track going electric. Going electric finally for me was a Godsend. Nailing the temps, better repeatability, no fiddling with flames, brew indoors, more being lazy, no refilling propane tanks, cheaper overall, the list of pluses goes on and on.

Honestly, once you dial in (tune, learn, and perfect) your system and processes, brewing should become quite boring. I have no problem mowing lawns, knocking out a few honey-doo's, or watching a game on TV during brew days.

 

[BrunDog]

On a small scale rig, automating those valves makes no sense. You still have to push a button, move a switch, or edit the program to actuate it at the right time. Why not just move the valve yourself?

I personally feel that is makes a LOT of sense. But with automation, the logic controller handles this for you - of course you know this.

Awareness of the operation, reacting to unexpected differences from brew to brew, understand how each recipe and batch size will differ during brewing, and being able to adjust things on the fly, is the responsibility (and experience level) of the brewer no matter what level of automation is available.

So true!

...But, the more you automate, the more failure points and complexity you add.

So very true!

...but it wont make better beer, it will only burn my money and free time with no return.

We certainly have our perspectives, but I feel it does make better beer. Recipes which are executed the same way yield repeatability - the hallmark of automation. Variables get limited to the ones you wish to change, so for recipe tuning, there really is no other way IMO.

 

[Silentdrinker]

A basic electric rig with PID's and a copy of beersmith, is about as automated as it gets without getting into crazy costs.

That maybe true if you’re buying commercial parts at high costs. Doing a BCS vs Auber PID panel is a minimal cost difference and the BCS offers far more automation plus the ability to monitor temps and timers and control remotely.

The cost difference depends on the setup. Having no manual button override will save a few bucks. Otherwise some SSRs, contact blocks and contractors would probably be less than $50 shipped. There would be extra wiring involved. And the BCS unit may run a bit more than 3 Auber PIDs, but you end up with essentially 8 PIDs with the ability to automate. It’s nice to have temp probes on the outside of the plate chiller and one in the mash as well as output of the rims plus the boil...etc. It can also run a ferm chamber or keezer.

There are other open source options, but the BCS solution is less of a hassle if you don’t enjoy the process of building and maintaining the controller.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

It all boils down to an individuals choice. Each brewer needs to decide what they want and how much they want to spend for it. There are absolutely many options available. Here's an example of my point... I brewed once with a guy that had a blingy computer controlled system. All was going well. I decided to check the pH and gravity of the mash near the end of the cycle I guess because I was bored (I brought my box of tools, he had no pH meter or refractometer, and only checks SG before pitching). I knew something had gone south so I asked him about it. The pH was like 6.2 and the gravity was nowhere near indicating conversion was complete. His response was "I have no clue, I just copied the file over and hit start, it worked last time". Big automation, but the toys didn't replace basic knowledge. He went on to say something like "for what I paid for all this, it better work".

For work, we have this nasty habit of making tasks and jobs easier, more cost efficient, more repeatable, more accurate and safer, and putting people out of work by replacing their jobs with equipment... All through automation. ROI happens over time and there is always a price to pay.

When I decided to go electric and build a new rig, many images ran through my head. I/O boards, solenoid valves, flow meters, level sensors, touch screens, maybe an SBC and more WPF components than carter has liver pills, Maybe a little 8051 derivative, microcrap or an ARM and a few days with the Kiel compiler, opto's... Oh boy, what could have been. Archive after archive or prior PID and servo code projects laying around. I even pulled out a few Siemens and Allen Bradley PLC's I had laying around and started counting I/O's

Then reality hit. Do I really want to spend the time on this? Brewing is my escape from work. Do I want to create something that 15 other people have already and try to sell it? Naaaah, don't need the headaches. I'll keep the career and hobbies separated. That $48 PID that holds a degree or so will do me just fine and it's already got the RTD input block, filters and ADC designed in, and hopefully its at least slightly proven out

If you want aerospace level repeatability, you need to go much further than I/O's. Humidity and barometric pressure sensors (need that boil off and volume exactly while matched to the timing, right?). High temp flow meters so conversion and sparge happens identically. RTD's at multiple levels in the grain bed. Optical recognition of the grain grind. Augers to move, weigh and dump hops (a spectrometer might be helpful to know the AA for every leaf or pellet). Dissolved oxygen sensors and continuous pH monitoring. Might want to consider turbidity and TDS sensors also. Ok, i'm joking, InBev doesn't even go that far. The point is no matter what you automate, there can always be more and the human has to make some choices and take actions. At some point, our taste buds are the limiting factor of "is this the same beer as before?"

If someone has the bucks and wants to buy the wiz-bang automation, great. There is nothing wrong with that. Or if someone has the skills, time and motivation, awesome go for it.

A brew rig is a tool. You still have to know how to use it and have some knowledge and a little experience under your belt to master it. As a pilot, we all want automated cockpits, fancy navigation equipment, and digital displays, but those toys do absolutely nothing to make you a better aviator.

 

[applescrap]

Would the blichmann breweasy be a possibility? Something like the Brew boss could also work, I think they come in 20 gallon sizes too. I heard that General Electric I think it was, built a fully automated Brew system that looks like a dishwasher or is it about that size anyways. I think it's called the vessie or Bessie

 

[Silentdrinker]

It all boils down to an individuals choice...

Ok? I don’t understand the relevance here. I simply pointed out that there is a nominal cost involved in getting more automation than what a PID offers. It’s definitely not a “crazy” amount.

He’s asking for automation that a PID probably wouldn’t offer him. So the BCS seems to be more fitting for his request.

Simplicity is subjective. Having the ability to start the brew process before I’m home from work or out of bed can be considered simplicity. Having the ability to monitor my temps and timers from my phone while mowing the lawn, and getting an alert once a process is done, can be considered simplicity. Having my temp states programmed in with changes made automatically or with a single input could be considered simplicity. Being able to load the recipe in and have it all set-up can also be considered simplicity.

Then again, spending a few dollars less, and a little less time wiring, on something that offers no more than temp control could be considered simplicity.

It obviously is all about what one person wants and how much time/money they want to invest. Regardless, no one said anything about aerospace level of repeatability. Perhaps that’s where the confusion comes when saying more automation than what a PID offers would add crazy cost.

I built a BCS control panel with automation. I have experience as to the cost, simplicity and level automation and repeatability. But I can also attest the fact that it’s not a perfect system, especially since embedded control concepts has seemingly limited interest in getting updates out and answering questions on their forum. They promise all sorts of features but never actually follow through with it. Plus they always give short timelines for updates or features that may show up a year or more later, if ever at all.

I heard that General Electric I think it was, built a fully automated Brew system that looks like a dishwasher or is it about that size anyways. I think it's called the vessie or Bessie

It’s Whirlpool’s Vessi.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vessi-beer-fermentor-and-dispenser--4#/

It’s for fermenting and dispensing though.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I am going to PM you SWMBO's personal cellphone# and if you manage to negotiate my way out of those jobs, i will hire you as my personal assistant!

LOL... that prolly aint gonna go your way since I'm the acting domestic chef/gardener/plumber/auto-mechanic/cleaning maid/dog-sitter/general contractor here too !

 

[thekraken]

We certainly have our perspectives, but I feel it does make better beer. Recipes which are executed the same way yield repeatability - the hallmark of automation. Variables get limited to the ones you wish to change, so for recipe tuning, there really is no other way IMO.

But repeatability and constancy does not equal better beer. No one is more repeatably and constantly awful than BMC

 

[BrunDog]

Haha... better beer provided it’s a better recipe!

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

A basic electric rig with PID's and a copy of beersmith, is about as automated as it gets without getting into crazy costs. In many ways, it can be less work than operating a commercial system. Beyond temp control, its flow control. You can either integrate a few more valves or move around hot dripping tubing.

I totally agree with this. PIDs can trip an alarm telling you the HLT is ready, Beersmith has an alarm on the timers for the mash, and the boil (and hop additions I think).

Something I added recently which I really like are the 3-way valves on the HLT and MT, I no longer have to swap hoses around, just hook them all up at the beginning and turn the valves at the transition points. (beginning of mash, beginning of the sparge, etc.)

I think the best I've ever done for a brew session was 3:45 (I don't count the HLT heat up, so that's dough-in to clean-up complete.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Something I added recently which I really like are the 3-way valves

I can attest to that. I currently use two and will eventually get two more. They’re on Ali express for like $20. They come in L or T configurations.

Are those small pumps on the port of the kettles?

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I can attest to that. I currently use two and will eventually get two more. They’re on Ali express for like $20. They come in L or T configurations.

Are those small pumps on the port of the kettles?

Yep, they run on 12VDC , they work like a charm for circulating and moving liquids between the vessels. The only reason I have a Chugger is for whirlpooling.