Plastic-y flavor, water/process hasn't changed

[tre9er]

OK, So the taste is plastic-y, for sure sounds like chlorophenols, but the weird thing is that this was a batch that I kegged half and bottled half...the keg tasted fantastic (BM's OktoberFAST) but I just opened the bottles after 2-3 weeks (bottle conditioned and chilled for 72 hours) and they all taste like this.

Weird that I haven't changed my water, and even weirder that the other half of the batch that I kegged was fine.

This was the aforementioned OktoberFAST, sub all Munich instead of Munich AND Vienna, and fermented with WLP810 (SF Steam Lager), temp controlled ferm at 58-59 until TG, two days diacetyl rest at 68, then cold crashed for a week at 38. I noticed the carbonation isn't quite there yet in the bottles I've opened, so perhaps I'll leave them be for a while.

Any thoughts?

 

[duboman]

OK, So the taste is plastic-y, for sure sounds like chlorophenols, but the weird thing is that this was a batch that I kegged half and bottled half...the keg tasted fantastic (BM's OktoberFAST) but I just opened the bottles after 2-3 weeks (bottle conditioned and chilled for 72 hours) and they all taste like this.

Weird that I haven't changed my water, and even weirder that the other half of the batch that I kegged was fine.

This was the aforementioned OktoberFAST, sub all Munich instead of Munich AND Vienna, and fermented with WLP810 (SF Steam Lager), temp controlled ferm at 58-59 until TG, two days diacetyl rest at 68, then cold crashed for a week at 38. I noticed the carbonation isn't quite there yet in the bottles I've opened, so perhaps I'll leave them be for a while.

Any thoughts?

Perhaps the bottles need more time but could also be a sanitation issue with the bottling process.

 

[tre9er]

Perhaps the bottles need more time but could also be a sanitation issue with the bottling process.

Yeah, trying to pinpoint what it could have been. This was obviously not the first time I've bottled, but I DO keg more than I bottle condition. All of my "bottled-from-keg" stuff always tastes great...IDK.

I always fill any bucket that will hold beer with star-san solution for at least 5 minutes prior to use (and they're cleaned after previous use). Bottles are clean and then dunked in SS water, swirled, before filling. I didn't sanitize caps this time, don't always do that anyway...perhaps this was culprit, but again it tastes like chlorophenol...

Anyone have a plastic-y infection?

 

[duboman]

Yeah, trying to pinpoint what it could have been. This was obviously not the first time I've bottled, but I DO keg more than I bottle condition. All of my "bottled-from-keg" stuff always tastes great...IDK.

I always fill any bucket that will hold beer with star-san solution for at least 5 minutes prior to use (and they're cleaned after previous use). Bottles are clean and then dunked in SS water, swirled, before filling. I didn't sanitize caps this time, don't always do that anyway...perhaps this was culprit, but again it tastes like chlorophenol...

Anyone have a plastic-y infection?

Yeah, I replied without looking to see who posted and after I hit send saw it was you and kinda scratched my head!!!

Could be the caps, how about the bottle wand or tubing you used, obviously if the keg is fine it has to do with something specific used for bottling. Bucket? Valve? Conditions have been some chlorine cleaner that didn't get well rinsed?

Just throwing some ideas as I know you aren't a noob in this.....

 

[tre9er]

Yeah, I replied without looking to see who posted and after I hit send saw it was you and kinda scratched my head!!!

Could be the caps, how about the bottle wand or tubing you used, obviously if the keg is fine it has to do with something specific used for bottling. Bucket? Valve? Conditions have been some chlorine cleaner that didn't get well rinsed?

Just throwing some ideas as I know you aren't a noob in this.....

I put my tubing, wand and auto-siphon (I don't use a "bottling bucket", just bottling wand on end of siphon) into the bucket full of SS solution. I'm wondering if it's a byproduct of the tiny fermentation that's going on in the bottles, as I've never bottled a lager before...perhaps I need to give them more time.

 

[duboman]

Found This which I'm sure you're familiar with:
PHENOLIC

CHARACTERISTICS: A hospital-medicine chest flavor and aroma, best detected by its aroma components; caused by phenols. Some phenolic tastes are desired depending on the style. Other descriptions include Band-Aid-like, plasticlike, smoky, clovelike.

HIGH LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Yeast strain; chlorophenols in the water; improper rinse of chlorine sanitizers; oversparging; sparging above pH 6.0; sparging above 170 degrees; wild yeast contamination.

LOW LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Charcoal filtering of tap water; good healthy yeast strain; proper sparging while monitoring temperature and pH, good rinse of sanitizers or use of non-chlorine sanitizers.

Wish I could help more, you've never bottled a lager and I've never BREWED a lager, haha!

 

[tre9er]

Found This which I'm sure you're familiar with:
PHENOLIC

CHARACTERISTICS: A hospital-medicine chest flavor and aroma, best detected by its aroma components; caused by phenols. Some phenolic tastes are desired depending on the style. Other descriptions include Band-Aid-like, plasticlike, smoky, clovelike.

HIGH LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Yeast strain; chlorophenols in the water; improper rinse of chlorine sanitizers; oversparging; sparging above pH 6.0; sparging above 170 degrees; wild yeast contamination.

LOW LEVELS DUE TO PROCESS: Charcoal filtering of tap water; good healthy yeast strain; proper sparging while monitoring temperature and pH, good rinse of sanitizers or use of non-chlorine sanitizers.

Wish I could help more, you've never bottled a lager and I've never BREWED a lager, haha!

yeah, none of those apply, really. Same water, sparging was fine (rest of same batch tasted fine), same yeast on both halves of batch, thinking something in my bottling sanitation, likely the caps or not soaking bottles in SS long enough. We'll see if it subsides in time. Perhaps there weren't much yeast in suspension due to lengthy cold-crash and now they're stressed, producing some phenolic properties in the bottle.

 

[Wynne-R]

Hey Tre9er. Is it possible that your tapwater has changed? I’m wondering if the water co changed from chlorine to chloramine. Maybe there’s chloramine in the StarSan solution.

Of course that’s predicated on the assumption you’re not brewing with tapwater, but are mixing it with StarSan.

 

[tre9er]

Hey Tre9er. Is it possible that your tapwater has changed? I’m wondering if the water co changed from chlorine to chloramine. Maybe there’s chloramine in the StarSan solution.

Of course that’s predicated on the assumption you’re not brewing with tapwater, but are mixing it with StarSan.

Yeah, at this point the only factor seems to be what happened at bottling time since the kegged half was great, no issues. One thing, maybe, I've been using softened water for sanitizing now as I had heard hard water wasn't a good match for Star San. I brew with hard (not too hard) water, though. I think I've been using soft water with sanitizer for a while now, though...I don't take the best notes

Otherwise I don't recall bleaching any of my buckets or tubing whatsoever. I bleached my mash-tun once and promptly oxy-clean soaked it thereafter, but even that would have affected the entire batch if it were an issue and I've brewed beers since then with no chlorophenol hints at all.

Priming water could have been RO water, which tends to taste a bit more "crisp", potentially has chlorine somehow or something?