Plastic jugs for secondaries

[Buktwild]

I'm parsing this out of my bigger post since I've read some here.

I read one post that warned that the original plastic jugs have the long term problem of allowing oxygen to seep in. This would ruin the beverage, letting the alcohol convert to vinegar.

Assuming I'm doing my primary stage in 3-6 gallon carboy, and I siphon off to my original retail cider jugs for secondary, what are the limitations?

Right now my expectation is to have ~4 gals of Graff racked off into the jugs for the secondary stage. Each 1 gal unit I could experiment with: Backsweeten, spice, etc and ultimately have it in the fridge in a mini keg.
We're moderate drinkers and I can easily see the jug lasting a month.

So that's four secondary jugs: four months of Secondary storage. Lets stretch it and assume it takes me 6-8 months to finally get to that last jug. Is that too long in the plastic?

 

[GinKings]

Definitely too long. I would get some gallon wine jugs from recycling, a restaurant, etc.

 

[CidahMastah]

In my opinion way too long. I would get some beer bottles or wine bottles and fill them (if it is going to be still) and bottle.

When I open a bottle of cider, I try to use it that day. Opening a jug and taking some out - some air getting in, etc. repeated over a month will likely cause your cider to oxidize and ruin your cider.

I would say that you wouldn't want to have them in jugs more than 2-4weeks tops, IMO.

 

[Buktwild]

Finding some one gallon glass jugs would be nice. That's a great suggestion.
And as for opening ... I know it's going to be like a gallon of wine. Once I open one of my secondary jugs it's gonna be degrading quickly.
That's why I'm hoping to setup a mini keg with the CO2 charger. Even a one gallon jug will take us a while to consume.
I won't be jumping ahead of myself: I'm not starting a 4-5 gallon batch until I have everything worked out for how I"m gonna keep it. I've seen those kegs at the beer outlet, but that's a good bit of money and a heck of a lot of beer. A 12 pk of bottles lasts us a few weeks.
I'm thinking despite my preferances otherwise, I might be forced to round up some bottles for single servings.

 

[Calder]

Use the plastic jugs, it's not going to turn to vinegar. Too much oxygen can impart sherry flavors, sometimes wet cardboard, but you have to work hard to get it. I regularly leave brews in plastic containers for a couple of months without any problems. When you rack to secondary, I would suggest adding about a half pint of fresh apple juice to ensure you push any oxygen out of the container.

If you do it, you will know for sure. If you don't do it, you will never know and forever be afraid to do it because someone on here told you it was bad ...... and they have probably never experienced the problem; they read it somewhere.

I would recommend bottling if you don't drink much. Buy some Sam Adams, their bottles are pretty good, and the box is obviously a good place to store them. Sierra Nevada is another good one.

To carbonate cider or graff, I use 1 cup of apple juice per gallon. Works great.

 

[CidahMastah]

Use the plastic jugs, it's not going to turn to vinegar. Too much oxygen can impart sherry flavors, sometimes wet cardboard, but you have to work hard to get it. I regularly leave brews in plastic containers for a couple of months without any problems.

So you regularly secondary for 6-8 months in plastic? Because that is what he is suggesting may happen.

It may not turn to vinegar, but it will turn into insipid blah cider in the least, or totally crap cider at the worst.

If you care about the quality, you will put it in glass if you are going to secondary for 6-8 months.

The fact that you comment on what goes wrong suggests that your cider has taken a nose dive before. Personally I wouldn't want to wait 2, 6 or 8 months to have sherry cardboard surprise.

 

[Buktwild]

"The fact that you comment on what goes wrong suggests that your cider has taken a nose dive before."

No no.... I just started my first batch of anything last night. Any info I referance is what I've learned in very recent research. I think it was here at HBT that I read the comment about deterioration from using plastic long term.

Just this morning I'm happy to report my airlock is gurgling happily and my first creation is underway.

 

[CidahMastah]

That comment was pointed at Calder - I know you just started yours

I just think that if people give advice, they should give the best advice, not the type that works some of the time if you get lucky. Why risk ruined or "eh" bland cider? I guess if you just want to get trashed that is ok, but I make my own cider/beers to have an outstanding product.

 

[Yooper]

That comment was pointed at Calder - I know you just started yours

I just think that if people give advice, they should give the best advice, not the type that works some of the time if you get lucky. Why risk ruined or "eh" bland cider? I guess if you just want to get trashed that is ok, but I make my own cider/beers to have an outstanding product.

I agree. I am a big believer in almost NO headspace, and to protect wines/ciders/meads from oxidation as much as is humanly possible.

Oxygen ruins them. That's just the way it is. I take great pains to siphon quietly, keep the carboys covered (out of light), keep them topped up to avoid oxidation, etc. Sure, you can do it half-assed but then if you're spending the time, energy, money, etc for a batch then I feel it should be done right. Otherwise, I'm just wasting time and money.

If you have ever had a wine or cider oxidize, then you'll know it. I had one that had a "carboy cap" on it and after about three months it had a slight sherry hint to it. I was so mad! I threw away the carboy caps because I never wanted that to happen to me again.

 

[CidahMastah]

Thanks for the support on this one Yooper - I really appreciate it