Planning a Real Ale trip to London. Help appreciated.

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kmarkstevens

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Okay, combine a few years of trying to mimic dozens of Shut Up About Barclay Perkins without knowing what real ale should taste like, a divorce in the next 6 months, so a week long getaway to London (or elsewhere, I'm flexible) is on the cards in Jan or Feb. I'd like to see a few sites but really the main goal is to enjoy some real ale. Milds, bitters, porters and stouts and what they should really taste like. Probably travelling alone. First time in the UK and almost the first time in Europe. Frugal but not on a backpackers budget. Planning for about a week.

Mainly try some real ale. Could go outside of London but I travel a lot internationally for work and prefer to settle in one spot unless there's a good reason not to. So, maybe two locations of London + one. Actually have some Welsh ancestry, and I hear Cardiff is pretty awesome. Some brewery tours would be nice. Not sure if it will be a direct flight from Seattle. Maybe a long layover in Gatwick just so I can get off the plane and have a couple of real pints in Ireland. I guess in summary, like to find an affordable place in the greater London area with some nice local pubs. Also happy to expand to a few days outside of London for an easy and nice experience with a few more local pubs as a change of pace.

Recommendations welcome.
 
I lived in England for 2 years for work. We lived in Warwick, which is beautiful rolling hill countryside with small villages scattered around and country pubs with oodles of charm. We did a couple trips to London, but it just doesn't have the same feel as a stone pub out in the countryside with a fire glowing and evening merriment.

Some of my best pub memories are from a small book that was Pub Walks in Warwickshire. They would have some classic countryside pub as a starting/ending point. There is a circular walk described that guides you through the countryside, starting and ending at the pub. They are a couple miles long. They make use of the ancient right of way pathways that cover the whole countryside. Things like "veer left out the parking lot toward the church steeple, then cut across the meadow to the large oak tree." Classic stuff.

Links for references:

1. That pub walk book in Warwickshire: https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-us/...9udqQkdOkGF5C8bsRrgQmsxcj_-lkY7BoCIbkQAvD_BwE

2. CAMRA Good Beer Guide is essential for any trip planning using the words "real ale". If you don't know, they're an organization that formed to protect the disappearing beer culture years ago. They have legit recommendations for any beer hound: https://www.camra.org.uk/about/publications/camras-good-beer-guide/

3. I also went to a real ale festival once while there. Great way to try a bunch of different beers, but definitely missing the pub character. They've got a listing at CAMRA's website: https://www.camra.org.uk/beer-festivals-events/our-events/

4. Good pub guide (where you can filter to pubs that have won beer awards and sell real ale), you put in a city or area and you can see pictures, a description, etc.: https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-us/...9udqQkdOkGF5C8bsRrgQmsxcj_-lkY7BoCIbkQAvD_BwE
 
Sorry/congratulations on the divorce...

I'd vaguely been meaning to do a "guide to UK beercations" at some point, this will have to be a very brief version. Personally if you're making a trip just for cask ale, then it makes sense to take in at least one beer festival, as at least that means that a)it should be in good nick and b)you're more likely to see rarer styles like mild. You're the wrong time of year for the big one, GBBF in early August, but if you can manage a bit more than a week then you could go to two of the biggest - Manchester (23-25 January) and GBBF Winter (Birmingham 4-8 February). Weather will be a bit crap at that time of year, but that helps you make sense of why we have pubs rather than mere bars!!

Only caveat is that Brexit is meant to be happening on 31 January which means it would be wise to avoid non-essential travel between the UK and EU in February as it will be complete %$!*ing chaos if Brexit has just happened, I'd leave the layover in Dublin for another time.

From your point of view I'd suggest that Burton is a must, in particular the National Brewery Centre (although it's only open at weekends during January) - based in the wreckage of the Bass site it's also home to the Heritage Brewing Co which may be up your street!!! And whilst you're there, the Coopers, the former Bass tap, is one of the classic pubs of England.

Remember that the "core" bit of England is not that big and has reasonably functional public transport. London is about 2 hours by train from Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds/York and it's not too expensive if you can book in advance and avoid peak times (<10am and 3-7pm), it's <US$70 return London-Mcr. I may be biased, but IMHO you'll have a better beery holiday north of Burton than south of it...

Whilst everyone tends to think of the UK as London plus a little bit, London is <20% of the population and frankly has probably the worst cask ale on average in the country. But because it's so big, it can support more than enough top-notch places to keep you busy as a tourist. OTOH, if you were planning a beercation to the US would you go to New York, or would you rather go to Portland or Burlington? They may be smaller but that doesn't mean the beer is any worse, and whilst mega-cities can be fun for some, smaller places are a bit more manageable. And cheaper - London is a lot more expensive than the rest of the UK, your budget for both accommodation and beer will go a lot further elsewhere.

Likewise, flying to Heathrow may be the obvious option, don't dismiss coming via Manchester which has direct flights to eg Vancouver, I suspect the best routes will be via eg Orlando though.

As for brewery tours, it's hard to know what will tick boxes for visitors as I've seen so many and most of them are just the same shiny cylindricals as anywhere else, and some of the most interesting breweries don't do organised tours because of health and safety fears. I guess Black Sheep are the best place to see squares in action, and Hook Norton is a classic tower brewery, but they're both kinda out of the way (although Hooky is midway between Oxford and Stratford if they are of interest for non-beery reasons). Similarly if I was in London I'm not sure going round Fuller's would be my first priority.

You will enjoy Jeff Alworth's account of his recent trip, starting here :
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2019/9/10/juicy-bitter-on-cask
(and go to "previous" for the next post chronologically)
 
Cool. This is a great start! Divorce is what it is, and looking on the bright side that it could allow a real ale visit to the UK. :)

Yes, maybe I should rethink basing out of the London area and go more north. Fair point NY vs Seattle (where I live) or other brewing areas. The UK is rail friendly, so could easily base myself somewhere else and day trip to London. I'm a China Guy (speak mandarin and lived in Greater China 20+ years), so there is some unique historic China related stuff in London I kinda want to see. Should also rethink timing given Brexit, should that come to pass. Breweries are interesting and all that, but I have been to ones in Japan (Sapporo), China (Tsingtao) and Seattle (Red Hook and others).

I'm in Seattle, so there are some direct flights to London, but also multiple not horrible 1 stop layovers to Manchester. I just checked and Iceland Air has some really cheap flights (as in ~$200 one way) and I wouldn't mind a one night stopover in Iceland just to get a quick feel. Certainly, the other options are stopovers in Dublin, France, Holland or the US, so I'd want to do Dublin if do this way if only to take a quick taxi to a local pub and scratch off the Guinness in Ireland bucket list).

@micraftbeer Warwichshire looks awesome. Just the kinda thing that would be an enjoyable base. A little country stroll and a pub at the end. One or two of these kinda spots would be perfect. I don't have to get to London this time. I ordered the book and it arrives in December.

@Northern_Brewer informative post as always. I'll definitely want to connect with you to hand carry some WLP yeast over the pond and drop them in the post for you once I'm in the UK. QQ: is a pressure barrel worth picking up and hand carrying back? You can't really get these in the US. But I'm guessing that a spunding valve and keg will do the same thing. Tescos has really affordable ones, and maybe I should bring one back as a souvenir?

My niece is married to a bloke from Leeds, so I'm going to pick his brain the week after next during the Thanksgiving holiday. And try to find out where my great grandfather is from in Wales, as that might make a good spot for a few days. Do the Kunta Kinte thing whilst having a breakfast, lunch and dinner tasting of the local brew.

Anyhoo, greatly appreciate the replies and starting to narrow down on how to make this work.
 
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https://www.beerguideldn.com/ is useful. they have an app for a couple of quid too

I would ask on the relevant forums on ratebeer/beeradvocate too perhaps for local info

Definitely get yourself to the Harveys pub The Royal Oak on 44 Tabard Street.

There's a lot of Sam Smiths pubs in London which are cheap and often absolute gems to look at, their draught beer is pretty poor though.

As for places to stay, every time I go down to london which is never more than a couple of nights I just stay in a travel lodge :). They are cheap and clean if utterly lacking in any sort of character at all. I tend to stay in the one on City Road which is reasonably central. Airbnb is of course also an option too . I haven't been in well over a year though either :)

I have spent much time in Wales but always mid wales, not sure there is much I can recommend in beer terms there. I do love the castles up the west/north coast though, like Conwy, Caenarfon and Harlech. But castles might not float your boat
 
Hi, I'm the retiredmartin that Northern Brewer kindly linked to in recommending the Coopers in Burton. I've retired and travel round the country and further visiting Good Beer Guide pubs. Blog is www.retiredmartin.com

I'd echo recommendations to think outside of London. Manchester has, to my mind, the best collections of pubs and quality beer in the UK. You could easily visit London (2hr 33), Leeds, Liverpool etc from there and hotels are generally cheaper. Advance bookings for trains save a fortune.

I'm not a fan of beer festivals at all. They're run by enthusiasts rather than professionals and beer quality is rarely going to be as good as in the best cask pubs like the Coopers, Harp in London, Marble Arch in Manchester, or loads in my own city of Cambridge.

I'd be happy to give any recommendations of advice ([email protected]), but my best advice would be to ask fellow US travellers the Southworths, who visit our pubs 3 times a year from Chicago and Minneapolis. Follow Dave on Twitter @MinneapolisCask and I know he'd be delighted to correspond.

Good luck, anyway.
 
You folks are a wealth of information! These all look fantastic. Looks like North it is at this stage of the planning. Maybe a couple of nights in Burton and a couple of nights in York.
 
Hi, I'm the retiredmartin that Northern Brewer kindly linked to in recommending the Coopers in Burton. I've retired and travel round the country and further visiting Good Beer Guide pubs. Blog is www.retiredmartin.com

Great to see Martin chip in - for those who don't know he's probably my favourite of a wonderful group of bloggers that includes BRAPA and Pubmeister, blogging as they visit every pub in the Good Beer Guide. But they're much more than that - they're a chronicle of provincial Britain, where Uttoxeter and Burton are stars of the show and the big cities hardly feature. If you're interested in British pubs, do follow them.

Also Boak and Bailey - their Pubs of Boggleton is a long blogpost that is effectively a fictional summary of their 20th-Century Pub book which is probably a must-read for this kind of trip for understanding how the modern pub scene came to be as it is. Des de Moor is working on an updated version of his London pub guide but it won't be out until February.

Anyway, I was loathe to say this myself, but you should pay attention when someone like Martin who has visited several thousand GBG pubs says this :

Manchester has, to my mind, the best collections of pubs and quality beer in the UK.

But I guess you have to make a bit of a decision whether your prime interest is in pubs or beer. And while it's true that some festivals can have indifferent beer - that's also true of some pubs, even GBG pubs, particularly on a Tuesday, but that shouldn't put you off going to pubs - and it's far more of a problem for festivals held went ambient temperatures are above cellar temperature. Conversely pubs in January suffer from lower turnover, which means either staler beer or reduced choice - I know one that goes from 5 lines in summer to 1-2 in January, although that's an extreme example.

Also festivals are a great opportunity to try lots of beer in one place, so will have more of rarer styles like mild, and that you know are at worst a couple of days old and Manchester is one of the good ones. It has people who know their stuff running it, puts (almost) all its beer through handpulls (a miracle of plumbing in itself), and is a bit more "sorted" than some other CAMRA festivals. It's unusual in having a dedicated beer from the wood bar (with Roger Protz leading a tasting on Friday, if you're quick), and the 100 Club bar (as in years, ie family brewers that predate Prohibition in US terms) tends to have classics that are seldom seen in cask like Owd Roger and Prince of Denmark.

I've never been to the Winter GBBF, I imagine it will be pretty well organised but may suffer a bit from the fact that it rotates round different cities so may not have quite the slickness of "permanent" festivals. But it will have more US-strength winter warmers and less pale stuff than Manchester!

I wouldn't get too down on London, it's not as irrelevant to the national beer scene as say New York, but is more the equivalent of say California. And it does have some wonderful buildings, and some great cellarmanship, even if the two seldom coincide. And most of your flights will go there, and from a China perspective I guess the V&A and British Museum are pretty much must-sees. No comparison on the neighbourhood pubs though - V&A is in a bit of a desert, whereas the Museum Tavern is a rarity in having Old Peculier on cask permanently (personally I'm less keen than USians seem to be) and the BM is not far from some of the classic gin palaces like the Princess Louise. And one can certainly think of multiple worthwhile pub crawls - Harp-Cheese/Louise-Mitre on the north side of the river, Borough Market is almost one in itself (Rake, George, Royal Oak etc) then the Bermondsey Mile of railway arch breweries. So don't worry (other than in your wallet!) about a lack of good beer in London, particularly if you're fitting it round other things.

The commercial galleries in London also have a fair bit of Chinese stuff, also worth mentioning the China museums in Bath and Durham (both a bit out of your way), and the contemporary China place in Manchester.

Again it depends what you're looking for, but Burton might not detain you for more than a day trip, once you've done the NBC and Coopers. It has a good hinterland of working-class pubs, that serve little else but Bass and Pedigree if that's what you want. January is not really the time to be going for country walks, but much of rural England has the kind of pub walks described above in Warwickshire.

FWIW Warwickshire might creep into my top ten for beery counties but it would probably be just outside. York is a great city in all sorts of ways, and has great trains to London (and a fun rail museum if that's your thing) but is a bit of a faff to get to east-west and may be a bit far out of your way?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask about pressure barrels, as I'm not so into the plumbing side of things - if I want cask beer I'll go to a pub and I'm happy to bottle my experiments. I'd say probably not, if only because it's a red flag for customs people to investigate further. Although Tesco's website has (used to have?) some brewing stuff, I'm not sure I've ever seen it in store - possibly in the non-food bit of their big stores, which is not somewhere I ever go. However there is a Wilko on the high street of most of small-town Britain, and they have a good basic selection of brewing stuff.
 
Im jealous of your trip! Sounds like fun. All great advice above. I would just add that in addition to all the beer "destination" places, no trip to beer trip to the uk would be complete without:

1) a trip to a regular proper local boozer, ie a real pub, it will probably be a tied house, with just a handful of taps- might not be listed in any real ale guidebook etc. If your in the manchester area a Joseph Holt pub would fit the bill. Decent cask ale, nothing fancy about it! They always have a mild on tap too.

2) a trip to a nice country pub- if you are down south then there are hundreds of beautiful pubs in the South downs. Plenty up North too. Again the beer wont be fancy or anything but if your lucky you can still find a decent pub (that hasnt been turned into some super fancy gastropub that focusses on wine), with decent cask ale, a dog, some locals to chat too and a roaring fire.
 
My two must stop spots in London are The Harp in Covent Garden (multiple CAMRA pub of year) and the Royal Oak, a lovely Harvey's Pub that tends to have the best pint of Sussex Best in the city.
 
As you have discovered there are direct flights from Seattle to London. You also figured out the Iceland Air cheap fares and ability to stop for a day or two in Iceland before continuing on or heading back.

I'd like to throw one more beer suggestion out depending on how much time you have. You could fly to London, do your thing, then go to Munich for a few days and fly non-stop back to Seattle from Frankfurt. Or Munich to Reykjavik to Seattle on Iceland Air. It is incredibly easy to get around Europe and Munich has a pretty good subway. They also have good beer, lol.
 
@BruceH Still in early planning stages and thanks for the good advice as I have really limited experience in Europe (a two week stint in Budapest almost 20 years ago,, a couple days in Paris and Rome 15 years ago and a long layover in Frankfurt). That said, I lived in Asia for 20+ years and travel to Asia a half dozen times a year, so I do have a passport and know how to use it. :)

If I head to mainland Europe as part of a beercation, it would most likely be the Czech Republic. I have lately discovered that the Czech's also have a 8 plato plus beer culture (lightbulb moment 2 years ago when I heard a Notch brewing on Basic Brewing Podcast), and of course Urquel/Budvar and others. I don't have temp controlled fermentation, so Seattle climate lends itself to winter lagers, most of the year Ales, and Kviek's for a few brief weeks in the "summer." This natural seasonal rotation suits my personal style.

@Landlord Absolutely a proper local boozer and a country inn or six are needed, nay, required.

@Northern_Brewer Given my lack of real English beer experience, I don't think I need to choose between pubs and beer. I'm pretty sure pubs will be able to satisfy both for a week throughout England. ;)

Will connect with my niece's husband next week, who is from Leeds and is an Oxford graduate, and should be able to help out with some Northern background. As a young lad, he may not be so ingrained in beer situation, but I'm pretty sure his parents will be an added resource.
 
If you fly into Manchester, I really enjoy the small pubs in Chester, (used to be a Roman walled city!) not too far away.

The Pied bull is ancient, they are also a brewery and have quite a few handles, and the WW1 Albion Pub is awesome.
 
Also another 2 things to tick off on england beer trip include:

1) Visit an "oldest pub" in England. You can do that in most towns and cities in England, as nearly all have at least one "oldest pub in england". Nottingham is particularly rich in oldests pubs with 3 of them.

2) Visit a haunted pub. There are plenty everywhere. Most decent English pubs have a least one ghost. I recommend the Jamaica Inn in Cornwall (South west) and the George Hotel in Hull (Up North).
 
I'm a bit late to contribute here, but wanted to say @kmarkstevens that if you decide to come to London then you're always welcome at a meet up of London Amateur Brewers. Send me a DM when you're thinking of coming over.

While perhaps you get an overall higher quality of real ale up North, if you do your research in advance London is hard to beat. Flight connections are good, transport network is amazing, an incredible amount of history, and a lot of really amazing pubs.

There's an online guide to the best places here, although it's quite craft beer heavy: https://www.beerguideldn.com/

In central London I'd recommend the following for the best real ale:
The Harp : https://www.beerguideldn.com/pubs.php?IDKEY=2
The Royal Oak: https://www.beerguideldn.com/pubs.php?IDKEY=32

These two have good ale, but also amazing historic decor:
Cross Keys: http://www.crosskeyscoventgarden.com/
Princess Louise: http://princesslouisepub.co.uk/

Although frankly you'll get a decent pint of ale and centuries of history from any of the pubs on this list: https://secretldn.com/oldest-pubs-in-london/


Just as a side idea, if you book enough in advance (and on a Thursday) the Eurostar train costs £59 return to Brussels and takes 2 hours from central London. If you like sour beers then Brussels Midi station where you get off is less than 10 minutes walk to Cantillon brewery, or 20 from the best bars and tourist hot spots.
 
@Jocky Wow, appreciate that offer and hope to take you up on it!

At this stage, looks like I've got to push out my trip but I'm definitely gathering information and figuring out how to make a trip work.
 
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