pilsner malt ipa!

[ldtagtrip]

Hello there,

Im planing on brewing a single malt ipa. Im using pilsner malt and a about 4 kinds of hops with one adition at 60 for bitterness, some at 0, some at 30 min into hop stand and the rest dry hopping.

I've already tried a similar recipe with bad results due to overboiling, amazing hop absorbion( i used 1 lb in the last recipe) And very high fermentantio temperature wich led to a buble gum flavor taking over.

did anyone ever do or heard about a pilsner ipa?

 

[drez77]

My standard IPA/APA recipe is 80% pils 15% marris otter or two row and 5% crystal. Works out well IMO.

 

[GrogNerd]

commercial brewery here in Virginia, Devils Backbone 8-Point IPA is made with Pilsner.

their Vienna Lager is hugely popular and award winning. a rep I talked to said they use Pilsner as their base malt in most of their beers because it saves money over having to source multiple base malts

from the DB blog

Pilsner Malt, English Cara-stan, German Cara-Foam (a dextrin malt, provides body), and Torrified Wheat

 

[jtdrowns]

Victory's Hop Ranch is all pilsner malt.

I would recommend moving the 30 min addition later in the boil, to like 10 mins or less. To me, a 30 min hop addition is a waste as it does not utilize bitterness or aroma/flavor.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Pilsner malt will result in DMS being present in the beer unless you do a full 90 minute boil. (that is long enough, but 100-110 minutes for complete removal of DMS)

On the flip side of doing a 90 minute boil, less bittering hops can be used.

I have a SMASH beer fermenting now

Recipe here

http://tgmba.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/?p=57

I will be doing a "Bottle Hop" with 2 oz Stella (Austrailia) added to the DME priming suger (steeped for 10 minutes at flame off after a 10 minute boil, then poured through a sanitized strainer).

If you have not seen one of my previous posts, the "Bottle Hop" is a very effective way to inject hop oils into beer without the wait of dry hopping. Trust me even the pros think my beer is dry hopped when I do this!

 

[jtdrowns]

Bottle hopping... interesting. I will definitely have to try this for a future batch.

 

[ldtagtrip]

its 30 min into hop stand, without any heat. The only adition i would have on heat would be an oz at 60, wich would probably be simcoe.

 

[bobbrews]

I personally think 2-row or a similar base malt works best for a clean, crisp, dry, West coast IPA. It has a very slight sweetness that compliments the fruity, citrusy, piney Pacific Northwest hops.

Pilsner malt on the other hand is a bit more bready and minerally in a sense... think of your typical lager base. Too much of that flavor detracts from the hops IMO. But if you like that kind of bready, biscuity malt flavor then go for it. Of course the yeast selection also comes into play, e.g. Lager vs. Ale yeast.

IPAs are my absolute favorite style of beer. It just doesn't get much better than subtle sweetness from the 2-row coupled with a ton of characterful American hops, clean or fruity ale yeast, and a dry finish. However, an IPL with a pilsner malt base, American hops, and Lager yeast is probably my least favorite beer styles of all time. They almost taste like failed German Pilsners to me.

 

[ldtagtrip]

Well said, im going pilsner to make the hops shine, but i havent made up my mind with the yeast selection, all i know is that im going for ale yeast. Hopwise; simcoe, ahtanum, colombus and mosaic.
I also got some amarilo stocked that i could use or chinook that i havent tried yet.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

If you are adventurous, throw a few ounces in the mash! There is a smoothness and a heartiness to doing this as it bonds hop oils to the beer itself that is somewhat resistant to oxidation (my own experience here). It is not a substitute for bittering hops so keep that in mind.

My problem with late addition hops is that the character fades over a short amount of time, so mass amounts are needed (along with dry hopping or bottle hopping) to maintain a nice fresh hop character. Mash hopping fills in the flavor/aroma gap between the fresh dry hop/late addition hops and the bitterness of the bittering hops. The flavor and aroma is round and smooth, complimenting the sharpness of the other hops.

I do get the feeling that many of the commercial breweries, especially in California, are using a mash hop in addition to the other hops. My brewing buddy and i often discuss this subject while brewing and drinking one of the gazzillion IPAs from the west coast thinking that there is a certain smoothness to the hops that we don't think you can get from just late addition and dry hopping.

Fuel for thought!
TGMBA

 

[ldtagtrip]

very interesting, i'll definetly try it. so i guess a hop with very high oil content like simcoe or columbus with benefit the beer more? or it doesn't matter?

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

very interesting, i'll definetly try it. so i guess a hop with very high oil content like simcoe or columbus with benefit the beer more? or it doesn't matter?

the higher the better

Here is my hop oil chart (I am adding more when I find the proper info)

http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hop-oil-chart.shtml

I have had great success with Simcoe, Amarillo, Sorachi Ace, and my latest one still fermenting, Aussie Stella.

I did a bunch of recipes where I added no late addition hops at all, only mash hops and bittering hops to see what I could get from mash hopping. If you feel like finding out exactly, do a basic IPA recipe but only add somewhere in the range of 4-6 oz of your favorite hop to the mash to see what flavors you get. Then build your IPA on top of it with the next batch.

 

[BrewNow]

I've got a question related to the pilsner base and hop stand. We know in order to reduce DMS in the wort a minimum of a 90 minute boil is needed. Is there a risk of DMS being produced when throwing in that last hop addition and covering the kettle for 30-45 minutes?

 

[slym2none]

I will be doing a "Bottle Hop" with 2 oz Stella (Austrailia) added to the DME priming suger (steeped for 10 minutes at flame off after a 10 minute boil, then poured through a sanitized strainer).

If you have not seen one of my previous posts, the "Bottle Hop" is a very effective way to inject hop oils into beer without the wait of dry hopping. Trust me even the pros think my beer is dry hopped when I do this!

Now THIS sounds interesting! I will be giving it a try at some point!!!

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

I think i forgot to mention when you add the hop charge to your DME priming sugar and let it stand for 10 minutes, keep the lid on! Oils like to evaporate.

On the question of letting the word stand hot for a while for hopping (hot wort produces DMS) I believe that the long boil prevents more DMS from forming. Someone will have to confirm this for me...

 

[m00ps]

I think i forgot to mention when you add the hop charge to your DME priming sugar and let it stand for 10 minutes, keep the lid on! Oils like to evaporate.

On the question of letting the word stand hot for a while for hopping (hot wort produces DMS) I believe that the long boil prevents more DMS from forming. Someone will have to confirm this for me...

I've never experienced this in 40 or so hopstanded recipes. I've let it sit for an hour before with no DMS issues. I also stopped boiling for longer than 60 min when I realized it made no difference for me with the pislner malt. All it did was slightly concentrate the beer from evaporation. I think this is one of those things that was a problem decades ago when malts werent as of high quality as today

 

[ldtagtrip]

what is the amount of hops i should use if i were to mash in hops??

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

what is the amount of hops i should use if i were to mash in hops??

If you want some oomph, use 4 oz of some high hop oil hops. the big american hops (chinook, columbus, amarillo, simcoe, etc) work well.

Like I said above, try an experimental batch with only boil hops and mash hops to see what it does. I used a pound of whole leaf Willamette once, and put them in hop bags, then re-used those same hops (complete with hop bags) in the boil. The beer came out great. It was a little difficult to manage though...

if you feel like going nuts and don't mind spending the money, use as much as you like in the mash...

 

[marshall_tucker]

I will be doing a "Bottle Hop" with 2 oz Stella (Austrailia) added to the DME priming suger (steeped for 10 minutes at flame off after a 10 minute boil, then poured through a sanitized strainer).

If you have not seen one of my previous posts, the "Bottle Hop" is a very effective way to inject hop oils into beer without the wait of dry hopping. Trust me even the pros think my beer is dry hopped when I do this!

i assume you've been getting good results from this. i recently also had the thought of doing hop stands in the priming solution, but kinda got talked out of it. even the almighty Denny Conn has dissuaded people from doing this (refer to topics on using hop tea vs dry hopping).
here's the thread where i posed the question if you're interested:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=539496

but anyway, what are your findings on doing this? regarding both pro's and con's. has it become a mainstay process in your IPA recipes?
i would be concerned about aerating the solution by pouring it through a strainer, but i'm guessing it hasn't posed issues for you

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

i assume you've been getting good results from this. i recently also had the thought of doing hop stands in the priming solution, but kinda got talked out of it. even the almighty Denny Conn has dissuaded people from doing this (refer to topics on using hop tea vs dry hopping).
here's the thread where i posed the question if you're interested:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=539496

but anyway, what are your findings on doing this? regarding both pro's and con's. has it become a mainstay process in your IPA recipes?
i would be concerned about aerating the solution by pouring it through a strainer, but i'm guessing it hasn't posed issues for you

If a pro brewer asks if you have dry hopped the beer I think your question is answered. I do this for more than IPAs but my most recent mind blowing dipa u can find by going to my blog..... Scroll down a bit till you find the last iPad I made. All high hop oil Aussie hops with about 2 oz used at bottling time. Total hop saturation! I do not get any cons out of bottle hopping that I can see...

 

[marshall_tucker]

If a pro brewer asks if you have dry hopped the beer I think your question is answered. I do this for more than IPAs but my most recent mind blowing dipa u can find by going to my blog..... Scroll down a bit till you find the last iPad I made. All high hop oil Aussie hops with about 2 oz used at bottling time. Total hop saturation! I do not get any cons out of bottle hopping that I can see...

touche, glad to hear this. i might grow a pair and try it out in a couple weeks, got an IPA going as we speak. thanks for the heads up.

got a few more questions if you don't mind:

- after reading your website...have you recently come to any new conclusions regarding 1 oz versus 2 of hop pellets in the priming wort?

- do you think bottle hopping would work in the same manner if priming with corn sugar or some other medium other than DME? (just curious)

- slightly silly question...is this giving you mainly aroma enhancement, or is it also contributing some flavor?

thanks, good sir

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

1 vs 2 may depend on hop oil content and the actual saturation level of the beer. In other words I believe there is only so much a beer can absorb but what that is is likely dependent on gravity and maybe other factors

I would suspect it would work with any priming sugar. I find the best bubbles come from malt extract tho

Whatever flavor and aroma components hop oils provide are what you get: pretty much the same as dry hopping


Good luck! It may take a bit of practice but you will appreciate the simplicity

 

[catdaddy66]

the higher the better



Here is my hop oil chart (I am adding more when I find the proper info)



http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/hop-oil-chart.shtml



I have had great success with Simcoe, Amarillo, Sorachi Ace, and my latest one still fermenting, Aussie Stella.



I did a bunch of recipes where I added no late addition hops at all, only mash hops and bittering hops to see what I could get from mash hopping. If you feel like finding out exactly, do a basic IPA recipe but only add somewhere in the range of 4-6 oz of your favorite hop to the mash to see what flavors you get. Then build your IPA on top of it with the next batch.

I'm subbing this thread strictly for the hop oil chart in this post!

 

[hopbrad]

My standard IPA/APA recipe is 80% pils 15% marris otter or two row and 5% crystal. Works out well IMO.

i love pilsner based IPAs. my palate gets a honey mango-y sweetness from pils malt and i think it plays so well with citra, galaxy, and the other C hops. I usually ad in 10-20% of MO as well to give it some complexity.
Some people are total opposite and love MO based IPAs, but for me the nutty/bready flavor brings out the booziness too much and competes with the hops.