Pilsener malt and protein rest

[captaineriv]

I am planning a high gravity Belgian ale that uses a base of German Pilsener malt. The recipe (from "Beer Captured" book) calls for a single infusion mash at 150. From what I've read, it seems that this type of malt generally benefits from a protein rest when brewing certain styles. Is this one of them? If so, would it be best to use multiple infusions or decoctions, or would it not make a difference in this case? It appears Beer Captured tries to use 1-step mash schedules in 99% of their recipes and I usually don't question them since I've only used fully modified 2-row malt in the past, but if your experiences find that other methods would make a better beer when using pilsener malt, I don't mind the extra effort. I'm open for as many different opinions as possible.

captaineriv

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Pilsener malt is a barley malt, and as long as it's well modified (and I'm 99% certain yours is) I don't think a protein rest is worth the effort. But I'm sure the Kaiser will be along shortly

 

[captaineriv]

But I'm sure the Kaiser will be along shortly

Uh oh. It may come down to a few coin tosses

captaineriv

 

[Kaiser]

Yep, there has been a good thread about this a few weeks back: "The case for the protein rest". The conclusion was, that a protein rest doesn't seem necessary for todays european pilsner malts. I was told that even many of the German pilsner breweries mash in above the protein rest because the malt is to modified and they don't want to hurt the head retention with a protein rest.

Conclusion, If you feel like making a protein rest. Keep it short (10 min tops) and around 130F (55C). If not, you should be fine as well.

The best way to know is getting a lot analysis for the malt you are using. But that is not really necessary unless you are just curious and it is easy to get.

What malt are you using? I have avarage analysis results for Weyermann (If only I could post a PDF here) and Durst keeps theirs on the web-page.

Kai

 

[Brewpastor]

AAAHHH, NOOOOOO!

I just called North Country Malt to see why the under-modified Moravian they carried was no longer listed and to get a new analysis sheet. NOBODY IS IMPORTING IT ANYMORE! I have like 10 pounds left. What good is that?! Tchecomalt was a source out of the Czech Republic, but they are bankrupt or something. St. Pats is totally out of the beer game and haven't been importing their Budvar malt for a long time.

Well, I guess that seals it. Single infusions from now on. GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE...

Kind of makes the decoction debate mute.

 

[Kaiser]

Well, I guess that seals it. Single infusions from now on. GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE...

Kind of makes the decoction debate mute.

Well, you can start making Amercan style lagers that are heavy in adjunkts .

And there are the wheat beers, which you don't like .

I know for one Altbier brewery in Germany that they use decoction. The guy who works there told me that they use undermodified malt which they decoct and later augment with well modified pilsner malt. So, decoction is not quite dead yet.

Weyerman's pilsner malt SNR ranges from 36% to 46% for the 2005 harvest. According to Noonan a protein rest should be done for the 36% and avoided for the 46%.

Kai

 

[Brewpastor]

Maybe its time I tried wheat beer again!

Actually, I haven't made a Classic American Pilsner for some time. I have one I like which I call Czecher CAB (Classic American Beer). It uses 6-row, which is a whole other story...

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Actually sounds like an import opportunity for ya, BP! Pastor, brewer, importer of Moravian malt...

 

[Brewpastor]

"Hey honey, how would you feel about a silo next to the house?"

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

"Hey honey, how would you feel about a silo next to the house?"

You mean you don't have one

 

[captaineriv]

What malt are you using? I have avarage analysis results for Weyermann (If only I could post a PDF here) and Durst keeps theirs on the web-page.

My apologies for the confusion. I'll be using Belgian Pilsener, not German. I'll probably use Dingemans.

captaineriv

 

[captaineriv]

At Northern Brewer, it says "Dingemans Pilsen is low in protein, and results in a remarkably clean and light finished product." I take it that means it's already well-modified?

captaineriv

 

[Kaiser]

At Northern Brewer, it says "Dingemans Pilsen is low in protein, and results in a remarkably clean and light finished product." I take it that means it's already well-modified?

Modification or protein rests don't get rid of the protein. They just convert longer proteins into shorter ones. The shorter ones are necessary as yeast food and will also provide added mouthfeel since they are unfermentable. To much modification or protein rest will impact the head retention because to many of the medium length proteins are already converted.

I don't think that the protein content of the malt is a measure of modification. Usually the soluble nitrogen ratio (SNR) is used for that.

Kai

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

BTW Brewpastor, have you tried AHS's undermodified pils malt (Breiss)? I'm wondering how it compares to the Moravian.