Picobrew Z

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jcaiola said:
Brolie - I have been happy so far. Three brews and more starting coming up next week (late because of the holidays) and I have a wedding this weekend.

I also added tons of grain so I’ve got a lot of brewing to do.
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Yea i have to say your post have been influential in my decision. i ordered my brewie+ on amazon as it was still at the $1599 price whereas everywhere else seemed to be over 2k. i wonder why the huge price gap
 
Brewie had a sale recently for their birthday (but they are still offering $500 off with a coupon code (let me know if anyone needs). They do have a 45 day lead time. I opted for Amazon for quick delivery.

I also agree - this thread is not representative of Z buyers in general.

Thanks.
 
jcaiola said:
Brewie had a sale recently for their birthday (but they are still offering $500 off with a coupon code (let me know if anyone needs). They do have a 45 day lead time. I opted for Amazon for quick delivery.

I also agree - this thread is not representative of Z buyers in general.

Thanks.
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amazon has quicker delivery and still several hundred cheaper. brewie today is $2499.00 without discounts. amazon is way cheaper after the $500 off. and to top it all off im getting a all in one system similar to the picobrew z2 for $549 less AND it chills the wort too!

i have to say i am very excited because now i will have a new brew toy (that does more) within a week AND have $500 back in my pocket. i hope everyone enjoys their pico z but i got tired of waiting, not seeing updates and the companies overall web reputation started to get me worried.
 
Good for you. Brewie price went up after their birthday sale. Still, I did mine on Amazon. One note - there are Brewie Pads on Amazon, but they are passed their ‘Best Buy’. Still a little better priced and good for starting out.

I’m headed to my own recipes now.

Joe
 
Lax coach said:
I don't think this thread is a representative population. It would surprise me if they're seeing a sudden rash of cancellations, despite there being several here in the past week.
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Yeah maybe I said that wrong I am just saying that there have been 4-5 people in this thread alone cancel this week and that is over 10k in machines.... IDK about you all but I do most of my brewing in the winter as it is dark outside and cold so it is a good time to brew, and I want to get my new machine going now.

I have been reading more about the Brew Boss now. It seems like they are also a good company. I was pretty set on a HERMS system but from reading a lot it seems that scorching of wort in the mash is not really an issue, and it gives you much less to clean. If they have a sale on it next week I am going to be on that, and have over $500 net money back plus be able to make 15g batches if I so desire.
 
cheesemonster said:
I have been reading more about the Brew Boss now. It seems like they are also a good company. I was pretty set on a HERMS system but from reading a lot it seems that scorching of wort in the mash is not really an issue, and it gives you much less to clean. If they have a sale on it next week I am going to be on that, and have over $500 net money back plus be able to make 15g batches if I so desire.
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I'm still keeping my options open, but almost certainly going with Brew Boss. Now just waiting patiently to see what next week has in store for us. :)
 
Didn't realize there was a dedicated Z topic; I've been posting over in the Zymatic thread. I also ordered a Z2, got tired of the shipping delays with no updates and then the general lack of any real updates at all, and I also canceled.

I ordered a Braumeister 20L, and while I've only done one batch on it so far I absolutely love it. I'll be doing 2 more batches next week.

You can see a pic of my final setup here in my build thread.
 
Since I cancelled, I'm no longer getting the email updates, but looking on the marketing site, it definitely seems like they've taken our feedback to heart:

https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=007d0e755e5300f5291fa2a6e&id=141b77e39e

I have to give them credit, this is the highest-quality update they've sent throughout the entire campaign. Nothing I can recall even comes close. If previous updates were even half this informative, I almost certainly would have hung on.

Bravo Pico! It may be too late (for me at least), but it is certainly not too little.
 
I agree. Maybe we little people had an impact. At least they’re telling you something. Happy to see our colleagues will ultimately getting what they held out for. Good be cool to test side by side Brewie vs Z2 both for performance, science and taste.

Let’s see what tomorrow brings. For me - the next couple of weeks will bring several new brews.
 
Well you have to consider it this way: We collectively invested 4 million dollars into PicoBrew interest free and our payoff is a machine as some time in the future. That's pretty generous terms. That is why they way they are talking now is how they need to talk. Consider if they went the typical route of raising money to develop a product... They'd have a VC or other firm investing money in them in return for equity. They'd have much less favorable terms, and also they'd have a much less patient partner with the ability to roil the company demanding real updates. So the least they can do is treat us like investors and not like pre-orders (of a unit that was next to non existent when they launched the "pre-sales"), and give us updates like such.

I don't mind making that investment if they are being honest with me and going to return on my investment with a great machine. Now this update has me torn. I got my reply with the typical text as I am sure you others have on your cancellations. But this was hours before the update and they said they were giving a schedule within a week. I do think that discussions like this did spawn this unscheduled and more detailed update. And I thank them for it.

Now I have to decide whether I am going to do this in light of them promising real information. My attention was turned elsewhere due to months of non substantive info about the product, and now I am really fond of getting a Brew Boss or other RIMS setup. Seems less complicated, and I can fix anything that happens with it myself with commodity parts.

The parts they put in today's update that addressed serviceability definitely were of interest to me. I didn't like how with the Zymatic they forbid you from doing anything to it, and any discussion of touching it on the forums is treated with a threatened ban. So that makes you entirely dependent on their service which despite what some say has been excellent, but I never want to be dependent on anyone. I want to own my equipment and be able to fix it myself.

From my prospective as an INVESTOR, I am not so much unhappy with the wait as they believe we all are, but the lack of transparency. Like Gut Pile said about his/her son with the kickstarter skateboard with brakes, we don't mind hearing about engineering fails, or supplier problems. We just want to hear it. We aren't clueless customers that need to be placated with rosy sounding things. I know it is tempting to do that because some people can't handle real info, but I think people that spend thousands investing in a brewing machine sight unseen are a different kind of demographic.

I am glad they listened and did this, and now I have the tough decision if I am going to cancel. I like PicoBrew and respect that they supported Zymatic owners essentially forever. The actual delivery estimate is a good first step. Next should be more info like show beta Z1's in action, show the modularity, discuss details about how the web interface will be. Let us know what is being work on and what reports are coming back. There's no reason why not to for a product that is slated now for Q1/Q2 2019 and is actually well underway like we thought it was when we "bought" it.
 
cheesemonster said:
From my prospective as an INVESTOR
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As someone who has backed 49 kickstarter projects, and was hours from cancelling my Z2 preorder, *YOU ARE NOT AN INVESTOR*. You've staked some claim to a retail MSRP discount based on early faith in a company enough to participate in a pay-immediately pre-sale.

I'm not going to advocate for either side here, as I was moments away from jumping on a brewie. I already have a stable 15 gallon 50amp/220v RIMS system that allows for simultaneous mashing and boil. My interest in repeatability and small batches (which I'm unable to do on my e-keg setup) after positive experiences with my pico pro led me to pre-order a Z2.

I'll likely wait until Tuesday to see where I am "in line" to decide if I'll cancel and see what other "black friday" deals are available from those that are able to deliver sooner rather than later.
 
Well I guess I have to be the bad guy...

This quote from the update "...having Zymatic customers perform the more complex repairs themselves was unrealistic under almost all circumstances, and the machines would need to be sent in for service. Even for our experienced service technicians, repairing Zymatics was labor-intensive and required quite a bit of time and expertise, along with specialized tools and equipment. Repairs also needed several hours of follow-up quality control tests to ensure that the repaired unit's parameters were back to our design specifications." appears to be Picobrew trying to downplay the grumbling from those of us who did tear down our machines and got placed in "time out". At no time did Pico ever mention that with the right qualifications I could open my machine....and there are not any special tools required (PEX is not special and neither is a socket extension) nor is it labor intensive.....ha ha that's a joke, I can break down my Zymatic fix it and have it back together in a couple of hours as I'm sure most of you could too.

"proprietary glycol mix"...who are they trying to fool or disuade from fixing their Zymatics? I have done the glycol replacement, as I know several of you have with the procedure I wrote. You can use a 33% mix of proplylene glycol and that works perfectly well in the Zymatic. Are they doing something different? Maybe. But the manufacturer of the food safe glycol that's out there, gives their recommended solution mix/temp, so it's best to follow their advice, but we know Picobrew ignores specs...see wort pumps.

"...so if our customer service technicians determine a component has failed, they can send a replacement to swap out the old part" - I'd be very surprised if they actually allow anyone to replace any of the "major" components of the Z series, I see PEX clamps all over that wort loop. Doug at Picobrew also told me one of the reasons they don't allow in-field repair of boards, pumps, sensors, etc... was that they required a calibration procedure and quality testing. Now on this one, I am seriously hoping I am wrong, in fact, would love to be wrong, but the pessimist in me says I'm not.

So, while this update was actually very informative and I am glad they got something out with some actual content in it, I see it as a way to try and extinguish the smoldering fire of all of the cancellations...not just here but all over the web I've read grumblings and heard of cancellations.

I do like the idea of sending out a schedule and showing where everyone is in the list, so folks can determine if they are in it for the long haul, but alas, I fear the Z2's are way, way, out there. Maybe I'll be wrong about everything and that's okay, I can handle that, I'll even concede that I am a bit disgruntled at what Picobrew says, but the proof will be in the product and if they actually hit the schedule. I can overlook bad service if its a quality machine and won't hesitate to publically show praise.

Black Friday can't come soon enough.
 
Just sent my confirmation of cancelation. My email and feelings were similar to cheesemonsters. I'm an engineer who deals strictly with concepts and prototypes. so i understand the challenges on future products. But the lack of transparency was a deal breaker for me. I got the feeling that they were hiding something. It's been 6 weeks since the first one shipped. and they have nothing to brag about?
 
Gut Pile said:
Nah its my name. Just a big deer hunter. Gut Piles are part of the game.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I hadn't noticed you in the thread previously, and I had posted the skateboard story, so I thought it was quite strange. All good though!

In other news, my $2,584 refund is posted as of this morning. 6 days and counting!
 
Mike Howard said:
Well I guess I have to be the bad guy...

This quote from the update "...having Zymatic customers perform the more complex repairs themselves was unrealistic under almost all circumstances, and the machines would need to be sent in for service. Even for our experienced service technicians, repairing Zymatics was labor-intensive and required quite a bit of time and expertise, along with specialized tools and equipment. Repairs also needed several hours of follow-up quality control tests to ensure that the repaired unit's parameters were back to our design specifications." appears to be Picobrew trying to downplay the grumbling from those of us who did tear down our machines and got placed in "time out". At no time did Pico ever mention that with the right qualifications I could open my machine....and there are not any special tools required (PEX is not special and neither is a socket extension) nor is it labor intensive.....ha ha that's a joke, I can break down my Zymatic fix it and have it back together in a couple of hours as I'm sure most of you could too.

"proprietary glycol mix"...who are they trying to fool or disuade from fixing their Zymatics? I have done the glycol replacement, as I know several of you have with the procedure I wrote. You can use a 33% mix of proplylene glycol and that works perfectly well in the Zymatic. Are they doing something different? Maybe. But the manufacturer of the food safe glycol that's out there, gives their recommended solution mix/temp, so it's best to follow their advice, but we know Picobrew ignores specs...see wort pumps.

"...so if our customer service technicians determine a component has failed, they can send a replacement to swap out the old part" - I'd be very surprised if they actually allow anyone to replace any of the "major" components of the Z series, I see PEX clamps all over that wort loop. Doug at Picobrew also told me one of the reasons they don't allow in-field repair of boards, pumps, sensors, etc... was that they required a calibration procedure and quality testing. Now on this one, I am seriously hoping I am wrong, in fact, would love to be wrong, but the pessimist in me says I'm not.

So, while this update was actually very informative and I am glad they got something out with some actual content in it, I see it as a way to try and extinguish the smoldering fire of all of the cancellations...not just here but all over the web I've read grumblings and heard of cancellations.

I do like the idea of sending out a schedule and showing where everyone is in the list, so folks can determine if they are in it for the long haul, but alas, I fear the Z2's are way, way, out there. Maybe I'll be wrong about everything and that's okay, I can handle that, I'll even concede that I am a bit disgruntled at what Picobrew says, but the proof will be in the product and if they actually hit the schedule. I can overlook bad service if its a quality machine and won't hesitate to publically show praise.

Black Friday can't come soon enough.
Click to expand...

If Doug had been able to control his mouth on social media I probably would not have cancelled. That concerned me a bit. I can understand if he is a principal engineer with some actual background in this stuff + knows more than how to read a script and answer help desk tickets. That isnt the case. Your average poster here has more technical background than most of their support staff. Then they started banning people for talking about repairing units themselves. That was the last straw for me. Don't crap on people who are sending you thousands of dollars and have concerns or questions.
 
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Looks like the Brewie+ sale for Black Friday is a limit seat $1000 off purchase price. Those are going to sell out fast and I doubt there are too many seats available anyways at that discount.
 
Anyone been using there Brewie + for more than a few brews? I liked the Brewie design better than the Zymatic before I bought my zymatic but the nightmare reviews of customer service and reliability made me glad I went with the Zymatic. It seems like the Brewie + is getting much better reviews but I can’t seem to find a lot of them.
 
I never got an email that they were refunding my order. I went online and my status was changed to "refunded"

*Just got the email. said 5 - 10 days
 
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I got confirmation from support that they would refund me late in the day on Wednesday 11/14. The money was back on my card on Saturday morning 11/17.
 
I’ve done four flawless brews on my Brewie + since 11/6. I pack it the night before, have my wife follow the start-Ul steps a couple of hours before I am to arrive home and then I pick it up when o arrive.

Of course, I can’t taste these beers for another few weeks, but I don’t think I can blame taste on the Brewie. I guess I could to some degree.


I find more compelled to brew because the process an clean-up has been so easy.

Joe
 
Shipping schedules supposedly have been sent out... But alas I haven't received any emails since early October so why would I receive this one?

Anyone else actually get one tonight? Was sent according to MailChimp site about 2 hours ago.
 
I got it (around 1145 pm EST). It says that they plan to ship my Z2 in the last week of February. I told them I'd wait for the schedule before cancelling as they sent their realistic update that evening promising a shipping schedule.
 
New owner of my zymatic is having a
cheesemonster said:
I got it (around 1145 pm EST). It says that they plan to ship my Z2 in the last week of February. I told them I'd wait for the schedule before cancelling as they sent their realistic update that evening promising a shipping schedule.
Click to expand...

That is over a year from launch of the money grab. At what point do they begin denying refunds? When units begin shipping or when your unit ships? This sounds like an attempt to stop the bleed if they deny refunds once they begin shipping. Even if it means only one or two units are shipping and you have to wait months on yours.
 
Ordered a Z2 when the 'kickstarter' had raised ~2.8M already. I have an estimated delivery date of Mid-March 2019.
 
Brewfreedom said:
That is over a year from launch of the money grab. At what point do they begin denying refunds? When units begin shipping or when your unit ships? This sounds like an attempt to stop the bleed if they deny refunds once they begin shipping. Even if it means only one or two units are shipping and you have to wait months on yours.
Click to expand...

I am still not sure if I am going to do this. But I have a Zymatic now that PicoBrew has supported free of charge even though it is 4 years old, and secondhand, with fast customer service. Nothing PicoBrew has ever done makes them an outright fraud. Besides their wildly unrealistic release date and bad updates which I was considering cancelling and still am.

"We have a no-questions-asked refund policy up until your order is fulfilled and ships out to you. Once you have received your unit, you are subject to our PicoBrew return policy and restocking fees."

So it isn't when they start shipping products it is when your order is actually fulfilled. Unless PicoBrew decides to go bankrupt, I don't think I am going to get burnt on this and I can decide to do what I'd like. I think the cost to manufacture the machine is probably a ~500-600 dollars, with most of the money spent on R&D so it is not in their interest to burn customers this late in the game. Units they sell later on will be very profitable for them. And yes we kinda funded the R&D part which I don't have a problem with. I am somewhat dissatisfied too but on the spectrum of companies PicoBrew seems to be one of the better ones for customer service.
 
Mine is expected to ship for April Fool's as I didn't pull the trigger until later in the campaign. Later than I wanted, but I can understand and didn't expect to see a unit until mid next summer anyways so was a surprise to see April actually... Though April Fool's is a great ship date if things don't work out in time
 
I preordered right away and I am scheduled for Jan 21st on a z2, hopefully no more delays.

Really tempted on the brewie + with the discount today but feel like brewie may be a bigger gamble than this z2 given product histories.
 
I hope your right Goblism, but I have not seen any updates on the Z2. Is it going to need new software to control the dual step filters and tanks? And how exactly is the Z2 supposed to work? Is it a closed loop? Is it operating as two separate Z1's? No specs have been published, no in-house testing photos, no in-house build photos...nothing. It's radio silence when it comes to the Z2 and beyond.

It sounds easy enough, once you have a working Z1, to just add a second module and run it as a standalone slave, but I worry there is a lot they have not tested here. And since they aren't publishing any specs its hard to make an informed decision.

Time will tell....
 

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