Ph

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billism

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Hi, I was wondering how important Ph is. I just checked and according to a 2004 water quality report (Still looking for a newer one) for my UD, the Ph in my tap water is about 7.2 to 7.4. I plan on brewing a hefeweizen soon.

Does anyone buy bottles spring water for brewing? That seems like it would provide a constant water quality.

Thanks!
 
I use bottled spring water from Wally World...just seems safer to me, given all of the crap in our air and water.
 
It's not so much the initial pH of your water as the buffering capacity of your water (or, in other words, the ability of your water to maintain that pH). My water is usually in the high 7's in pH, but the buffering capacity is not great and after I mash in the pH lowers to the low 5's which is good. Therefore, I don't need to make any adjustments.

If, however, you find that after mashing in (or I suppose boiling in the case of extract) your wort is not in that range, you would want to make adjustments to your water's profile.

I find my city water supply to be pretty consistent (the times I've measured pH, anyways), but don't know if that's a given in other places.
 
El Pistolero said:
I use bottled spring water from Wally World...just seems safer to me, given all of the crap in our air and water.

What makes you think there's less crap in bottled water?
 
It does seem like according to this link there is not necessarily any difference between bottled and tapwater, but there may be depending on brand. It's also odd (to me) that tapwater is regulated by the EPA and their regulations, while bottled water is regulated by the FDA, though I suppose the line has to be drawn somewhere.

http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/faq/faq.html#bw
 
Your water will pretty much define what style(s) of beer you can BEST produce. Different malts will have a different impact on mash pH and therefore define what style is best suited for your water. This is a big part of why certain styles of beer originated from specific areas of the world (along with other factors). Do some micro-mashes on the stove with different malts and you can see how it affects pH. www.howtobrew.com has some good background on this issue and the charts on the links below are very handy (explanations are in that chapter on the website).

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f79.gif

http://www.howtobrew.com/images/f80.gif
 
I actually just started having five gallon bottles of spring water delivered to my house for the sole purpose of brewing. My first batch using them is in the secondary fermenter right now, so I'm not exacty sure how it will turn out, but so far it seems to be doing just fine.
 
Mikey said:
What makes you think there's less crap in bottled water?
Because it's filtered twice, and sterilized twice, and comes from an area that doesn't host 1/3 of all the chemical plants and refineries in the US...I can't say that about my water. :(
 
My water supply comes from the rocky mountains... but it i get horrid efficiency unless I add some gypsum and phosphoric acid.

Also note :

Litmus paper is worthless if you are color-blind ;)
 
My water was rated #3 in the country for purity and taste, which means it's softer than cotton candy! I use pH5.2 for mashing and sparge water. I haven't done any styles requiring hard water, but it's easy to put it in. pH5.2 is great.
 
I also tried that on my last batch. The beer was outstanding but I'm not sure how much the pH stabilizer contributed to the results.
 
I tampered with the ph in my last batch - I will say that those little ph papers are pretty much worthless. $3 for a bag of 20 and I must have used about 15 of them between the mash and the sparge water. I thought about the 5.2 stabilizer but the guys at the homebrew shop basically said they'd had mixed results with it and I'd do just as well if not better to use gypsum and lactic acid - heck it's definitely a LOT cheaper than the 5.2 stuff.

In reality it is quite simple - after you start the mash you check the ph with the papers (I think I'll buy a ph meter next time around) and if it's below 5.2 (acidic) then add some baking soda to raise it. If it's high (basic) then use the gypsum to lower it. A little of the baking soda seems to go a long way but the gypsum doesn't seem to be as strong. After you've done this a few times I bet you'll get the feeling for what your water does - i.e. how hard it is or how much it buffering effect it has and you can predict what adjustments, if any, you'll have to make given your grain bill. I'm still not quite sure though why the guys at the LHBS said to use lactic acid to bring down the ph of the sparge water - why not just use the gypsum there as well?
 
Genghis77 said:
I have heard of high bacteria counts in bottled water. But unsure of sources of that information.
I've heard of bacteria count too, but it's everywhere. How much does it matter though when you're going to boil it (or get it close enough) anyway?
 
My PH leaving the treament plant is 7.1. Is this pretty bad or what? If so, what would this do to my flavors when mashing and so forth?
 
GABrewboy said:
My PH leaving the treament plant is 7.1. Is this pretty bad or what? If so, what would this do to my flavors when mashing and so forth?
The pH of your tapwater isn't, in and of itself, the relevant question. The question is what is the pH of your mash?

Lightly buffered water @ 7.1 would probably fall easily into the 5.0-5.2pH range in a mash, while highly buffered water @ 7.1 might not.
 
How much does it matter though when you're going to boil it (or get it close enough) anyway?

To me, it doesn't matter at all. I don't bother sanitizing anything involved with the mash. I typically just rinse my cooler out and wipe it down and put the lid on and store it for the next usage. Because I have a dog I do check for black hairs and rinse everything again before use, especially if they have been sitting around uncovered. As you said, it doesn't matter because it's going to be boiled for an hour at least. Anything that can live in the mash at temps around 150F for an hour or more and then be comfortable in boiling hot wort for another hour sure isn't going to be killed by any starsan.. that's my thinking at least.

As for top up water, this comes dangerously close to a discussion of whether rinsing your equipment after sanitizing is fine or if it introduces unwanted nasties... (how about we talk about hydrometers or aluminum brew pots while we're at it?) When I was doing extract batches I always boiled the top up water.. the one time I didn't was for my gf's wine kit (she was in a rush) and guess what.. infection. Frankly, I think you can have some fairly poor sanitation and still make good beer quite often - but when you do get an infection you'll kick yourself for not being more careful. I'm not saying that using unboiled tap water or bottled water is terrible, but it certainly is not as sanitary as using boiled water.

My PH leaving the treament plant is 7.1. Is this pretty bad or what? If so, what would this do to my flavors when mashing and so forth?

What it will affect is you mash efficiency - while I'm too lazy to get palmer's book out I do recall that different enzymes are favored by different PHs.. 5.2 or 5.3 is the ideal compromise. Now, your malts will have an acidifying effect on the water and different malts will have more or less of that acidifying effect. Basically, your darker malts will have a greater acidifying effect than your lighter malts. What's really important here is water hardness - 7 is typical PH for tap water but some regions have very hard (mineral rich) water and others don't (or have a water "softener" or reverse osmosis water filter). If you have hard water then it will not be affected as much by the malts. If, however, you have soft water then even light malts will have a significant effect on your mash PH. Palmer, in How to Brew, lays out a technique for predicting mash PH based on your water's hardness and the effect of the malts - it's complicated and, frankly, I don't fully understand it. The easy method is to buy some strips, or better still a PH meter, and do the mash as usual and check the PH to see where it ended up. If it's low then add some baking soda (a little goes a long way). If it's high then some gypsum from your LHBS will lower it. Gypsum and baking soda are A LOT cheaper than the 5.2 stuff and not that hard to use. I'd suggest you give it a try in your next batch.

I'd still like to understand why I was told to use lactic acid to acidify the mash water though (instead of the gypsum)... I'm also hoping that it won't impart a souring taste to the brew. Anyone have any ideas?
 
Lost said:
I'd still like to understand why I was told to use lactic acid to acidify the mash water though (instead of the gypsum)... I'm also hoping that it won't impart a souring taste to the brew. Anyone have any ideas?
I have used lactic acid to adjust my pH when I didn't want to harden my water or otherwise alter the profile with additives like gypsum or Burton salts. It won't have any souring affect on the flavor as long as you don't overshoot your target pH.
 
Hmmm.......very good stuff you wrote there Lost......I have very soft water, so I need to add baking soda then as my PH will be lowered when making lighter ales and such. But should be fine when making a darker ale.
 
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