Ph meter calibration time

[Raider7296]

I have one of those “Dr. Meter” ph pens you can get on Amazon that claims to be accurate to 0.01. I think I got it about 2 years ago. It seems to be pretty accurate, but the settling time is getting to be ridiculous. It takes it about 10 minutes to get through a 3-solution calibration. And when taking readings, it will keep dropping for about 5 minutes, many times shutting itself off before I even get a stable reading.

I feel like I've taken pretty good care of the probe. I always cool the wort to room temperature, rinse immediately after use, and store in KCl solution in the probe cap. In theory, the probe is replaceable, but I haven't seen them available anywhere.

Is there any way to fix this? Or is this just how it goes with Ph probes? Do the mid-range Ph meters from Apera or Milwaukee have faster settling times and/or more robust probes? What about the stuff from Hanna, Hach, or Thermo Fisher? I'd be willing to spend some coin on something that would work quickly and reliably, but if I'm going to have to replace probes all the time, it seems like it would be cheaper to just by a new generic pen meter every year or two.

 

[VikeMan]

Before replacing the probe, take a look at it. Is it kind of yellow'd? If so, try cleaning it. I don't know what Dr. Meter recommends, but there are cleaning solutions for pH probes available. (Look for "pH electrode cleaning solution" or similar.) Even if it doesn't fix your current issue, buying some probe cleaning solution won't really be a waste of money. IMO a bottle of it should be in every pH kit anyway.

 

[tracer bullet]

I found my Aptera takes forever to cal, even when it was new. I don't run that routine very often. Instead I give it a go in some 4.0 solution, another in 7.0, and if they are both close or similarly off (say both are .01 lower then expected) then I factor that same offset into my wort reading and run with it.

I'm acknowledging that as the cal solution ages, it may not be accurate, and then any rinsing of the probe will introduce water into the cal solution and so it needs to change repeatedly.

Can't speak for anyone else but I don't care about 5.43 vs 5.45 results and that level of detail. I just want to be sure I don't accidentally hit 5.1X or 5.7X when I was expecting 5.4X. I find that as I tinker with new base malts I can get some unexpected results. 2 Row vs Maris Otter vs Pilsner.

 

[Jeroen79]

I think the sensor is just worn, from what i have read you need to replace it every 1,5years.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I have an Apera pH60, and I take good care of it, but still find the sensor only lasts a full two years before becoming increasingly lethargic.

But I've had the same experience with its predecessor instruments - a Hanna HI98128 and a Hach Pocket Pro Plus - the latter was the favored handheld on HBT until the Apera pH60 knocked it off its perch. The notable advantage with the Apera is the sensor is fairly inexpensive compared to the other two...

Cheers!

 

[Raider7296]

I ordered some probe cleaner this afternoon. We'll see if that helps at all. If not, I'll have it for my next one.

I'm not super concerned about a 0.01 difference either, I just want to know I'm in the ballpark. Brewfather's predictions are usually pretty close on my system. I just like to have an actual measurement for my notes. I like your idea of just checking the 4.00 solution instead of going through the whole calibration. That would save a lot time (assuming my meter ever settled down on a reading).

It sounds like throwing money at this isn't going to help too much. That Apera model seems pretty reasonable, if the probes are actually available. The Dr. burned me on that one

 

[day_trippr]

Apera pH60 sensors are just a click away...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GA9EI3E
Cheers!

 

[BenniferBropez]

Bought the MW102 and love it. Instructions require the use of a cleaning solution before and after use in addition to the standard pH storage solution and calibration solutions. With past probes I had always used the calibration solutions and probe storage solutions but never a cleaning solution. I had always rinsed in distilled water before and after calibration and use rather than a specialized cleaning solution.

My question to people who have this unit is do you think the cleaning solution is necessary or could you just clean with distilled water. I use the storage solution for the health of the probe but it does not seem like rinsing with distilled water would affect the health of the probe.

Thank you,
Ben

 

[VikeMan]

Bought the MW102 and love it. Instructions require the use of a cleaning solution before and after use in addition to the standard pH storage solution and calibration solutions. With past probes I had always used the calibration solutions and probe storage solutions but never a cleaning solution. I had always rinsed in distilled water before and after calibration and use rather than a specialized cleaning solution.

My question to people who have this unit is do you think the cleaning solution is necessary or could you just clean with distilled water. I use the storage solution for the health of the probe but it does not seem like rinsing with distilled water would affect the health of the probe.

I have a MW101 and a MW102. I use cleaning solution whenever the probe looks a little dingy, but definitely not before/after every use. Rinsing with distilled water and storage in storage solution is SOP. A distilled water rinse doesn't hurt the probe and is needed between readings (and between calibration solutions) to prevent the first sample from contaminating the second.

 

[wepeeler]

fwiw, I have an Apera pH60, and I take good care of it, but still find the sensor only lasts a full two years before becoming increasingly lethargic.

But I've had the same experience with its predecessor instruments - a Hanna HI98128 and a Hach Pocket Pro Plus - the latter was the favored handheld on HBT until the Apera pH60 knocked it off its perch. The notable advantage with the Apera is the sensor is fairly inexpensive compared to the other two...

Cheers!

A pH meter is the "last" piece of necessary equipment I have yet to purchase for my setup. I usually just trust my software and think my beer turns out well enough. It's my BDay this Sunday, and my fiancé is asking what I want. Worth getting? You've had good luck with it?

 

[day_trippr]

The Apera ph60 is currently one of the two most commonly cited pH meters here, the other being the Milwaukee MW102.

While my experience is with the Apera and I have recommended it often, I believe you can't go wrong with either...

Cheers!

 

[tld6008]

A pH meter is the "last" piece of necessary equipment I have yet to purchase for my setup. I usually just trust my software and think my beer turns out well enough. It's my BDay this Sunday, and my fiancé is asking what I want. Worth getting? You've had good luck with it?

I have ans Apera PH60 a couple of years old. Have used it maybe on 15 brews and just don't see the need anymore.

 

[wepeeler]

I have ans Apera PH60 a couple of years old. Have used it maybe on 15 brews and just don't see the need anymore.

That's my main concern. If I hit my anticipated pH on say 3 straight brew days, I'll never use it again. I know myself too well...

 

[Jeroen79]

I am waiting until ph-meters with a ISFET sensors are affordable, the current meters with a glass probe seem to high maintanance for a home brewer like me.

 

[Mike Howard]

FWIW I use this Hanna HI98103 and this HI1271 PH Electrode replacement. I find I need to replace the probe every year and it hardly ever needs calibration. I keep the probe in storage solution and check cal every two weeks using Thermoworks solutions. Calibration lasts for months when new, but begins to need calibration weekly as it nears the year mark.

It's funny, because I also have this Milwaukee PH600 which is just as accurate and needs calibrated monthly, but I have been using it for 5 years without issue. I use it when I think my other meter is starting to go on the fritz.

 

[tracer bullet]

That's my main concern. If I hit my anticipated pH on say 3 straight brew days, I'll never use it again. I know myself too well...

I get it, but - if you are me, you're constantly tinkering with a recipe, trying a new recipe, or even just getting a different base malt form time to time. And so the results aren't all that predictable. Not as much as I'd like them to be.

 

[wepeeler]

I get it, but - if you are me, you're constantly tinkering with a recipe, trying a new recipe, or even just getting a different base malt form time to time. And so the results aren't all that predictable. Not as much as I'd like them to be.

That's why I trust my software. I get what you're saying, I just can't imagine it having THAT much of an impact on a 5/10 gallon batch. And if it does, then woe is me, and I accept that I could be making better beer.

Just seems like more of a hassle and another thing to worry about on an already busy brew day.

 

[tracer bullet]

That's why I trust my software. I get what you're saying, I just can't imagine it having THAT much of an impact on a 5/10 gallon batch. And if it does, then woe is me, and I accept that I could be making better beer.

Just seems like more of a hassle and another thing to worry about on an already busy brew day.

Sure, I get what you're saying too. I've just seen enough pH swings in base malts, even among brands for what I'd have thought was "the same" base malt, that I've learned to measure so I can tweak the next time.

I dip a chilled shot glass into the wort just after mashing, and let it sit. After the boil has started and I'm kind of hanging around, I finally measure pH. It's more for record keeping, what to tweak next time. More or less acid, etc.

 

[wepeeler]

Sure, I get what you're saying too. I've just seen enough pH swings in base malts, even among brands for what I'd have thought was "the same" base malt, that I've learned to measure so I can tweak the next time.

I dip a chilled shot glass into the wort just after mashing, and let it sit. After the boil has started and I'm kind of hanging around, I finally measure pH. It's more for record keeping, what to tweak next time. More or less acid, etc.

Good to know. How much of a swing are we talking? Like 0.5? Because that's significant.

Not to change the topic, but I've been told by more than a few commercial brewers that there is way more of a swing in printed AA% on hops than malt. I've been told they often degrade to between 1/2 to 3/4 of what is printed. That's way more concerning to me, and I feel like I've fallen victim to that. Tried tweaking 5 IBU here and there and had it seem like WAY more or less than my tweak.

 

[mac_1103]

I take a small sample at dough in and stick it in my icemaker. It chills quickly enough that I feel like I wouldn't be wasting my time if I made an adjustment, but maybe that's just wishful thinking. pH of my last couple of mashes has been a touch higher than predicted - about 0.15 or so. Not really enough to worry about IMO. I figure it's any or all of: 1) alkalinity of my water has drifted up a touch, 2) malts aren't exactly what the spreadsheet thinks they are, 3) measurement errors in water adjustments, and 4) pH meter inaccuracy. If it was 0.5 I would definitely worry about it.

 

[Yesfan]

I have the cheaper Apera PH20 (non back lit). I bought it to replace the Beverage Dr one I had after seeing Brian from Short Circuited Brewers review it. I've had it for a year and it's been good. The biggest pros for me with the Apera vs the Bev Dr was the larger storage case for the meter and solution bottles. Another plus is the batteries of the Apera are AAA vs the button batteries of the Bev Dr. (which were a pain to change).

 

[tracer bullet]

Good to know. How much of a swing are we talking? Like 0.5? Because that's significant.

.2 I'd say, maybe up to .3 but that would be it. I'll have a recipe that one time runs nicely at 5.35 or so and the next time is in the 5.5's just because of a change in the base malts.

I think we'd both agree that's not a huge deal, it won't ruin your beer.

I will however measure and account for it because I do have the time to do so.

In a side by side taste test there's a very good chance I could not have told you the difference.