Performing no chill by leaving wort in kettle overnight

[CyberFox]

Has anyone had experience doing the no chill technique by leaving the wort in the kettle to cool overnight? I know that the typical way to no chill is to transfer to an HDPE container, but I've also heard that some just put Saran wrap over the kettle opening and put the lid on. My main concern would be an increased risk of infection, but maybe there's not much to worry about due to the boil beforehand. Please let me know what your experience has been. Thanks in advance!

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe not for hoppier beers.

One thing that always comes to mind with no-chill is that late addition hops will keep isomerizing in the near boiling wort for several hours. That reduces their intended flavor/aroma contributions while adding more bittering (raising IBUs).

Similar for whirlpool hops added at lower temps. Extraction still takes place at lower temps but bittering reactions although reduced, don't stop until below 140F.

You can tweak the recipe somewhat to counteract some of it, such as the IBU increase, but not the other side effects.

 

[Ninoid]

I've been doing No Chill since the first day I've been brewing beer, close to 200 batches, but every time I cool the pot to below 70'C (up to 40 minutes naturally without stirring) and then I pour wort into a plastic fermenter and seal it until tomorrow when the wort cools naturally. Then I add yeast and replace the cap with an airlock.
I've never left it in the pot to cool overnight, and I don't think it's a good idea if the lid can't be seal properly.

 

[RM-MN]

Simply putting the lid on minimizes the chance of infection.

 

[Ninoid]

Simply putting the lid on minimizes the chance of infection.

I'm talking about what I see, which is that when the steam stops coming out, a vacuum is created that sucks in the outside air. If the lid is not sealed, that outside air can bring a lot of bad things.
The container must be sealed!

 

[Bobby_M]

Saran wrap is not going to keep outside air from getting in. I'd .1% concerned with contamination and 99.9% concerned about oxidation damage.

 

[odie]

just how is oxidation damage going to happen? when the yeast is pitched and fermentation starts, all the oxygen is used up. Why else is "oxygenating" wort when pitching a thing?

Biggest issue is the late hops additions getting ruined. Maybe just skip all late boil additions and dry hop instead?

 

[easttex]

Has anyone had experience doing the no chill technique by leaving the wort in the kettle to cool overnight? I know that the typical way to no chill is to transfer to an HDPE container, but I've also heard that some just put Saran wrap over the kettle opening and put the lid on. My main concern would be an increased risk of infection, but maybe there's not much to worry about due to the boil beforehand. Please let me know what your experience has been. Thanks in advance!

I've done it before. It flies against everything I was taught about brewing but it works.

Be sure to pull your hops out to prevent them from continuing to work. Put the lid on the batch and carefully bring it in somewhere where the wind won't blow on it and people won't bump into it. It will cool to ambient temp overnight and you can rack it to the fermenter and pitch in the morning.

A couple caveats here:
1. Have your yeast ready to go. You have freshly sugary wort waiting for something inoculate it so do not delay.
2. You'll have to figure out how to get it to pitching temp somehow since unless you're brewing in the dead of winter, ambient temp is probably incompatible with pitching temp.

Try the method and see if you like it.

 

[Steveruch]

I do it all the time with good results.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd .1% concerned with contamination and 99.9% concerned about oxidation damage.

just how is oxidation damage going to happen? when the yeast is pitched and fermentation starts, all the oxygen is used up. Why else is "oxygenating" wort when pitching a thing?

I'd say @Bobby_M is referring to hot side oxidation.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

If using a lot of Pilsner malt, one other consideration is DMS which is highly volatile above 180 degrees.

By covering the kettle right after the boil, any remaining and newly produced DMS will not be allowed to escape. I would guess that a better practice would be to cover the kettle after the temperature drops to a level below 180. At just below 180, the wort will still pasteurize everything so no risk of infection, the oxygen solubility will be very low so little additional risk of hot side oxidation, and any remaining DMS will be allowed to evaporate away. Here is a link to some DMS info...

https://beerandbrewing.com/off-flavor-of-the-week-dms/

 

[CyberFox]

Thanks everyone for your input. Good points all around. I've heard of people having no problems with leaving the wort in the kettle overnight, but I imagine it's better to be safe than sorry. Putting it in a container is just one less thing to worry about. You can only take so many shortcuts. DMS was another one of my concerns, so thanks for bringing that up.

 

[IslandLizard]

What is your main reason to go the no-chill route?

A hybrid version of it may work as well or even better, such as chilling below 140F, then "seal off" the kettle or transfer to a fermenter or other container and let it cool off the rest of the way.

 

[CyberFox]

What is your main reason to go the no-chill route?

A hybrid version of it may work as well or even better, such as chilling below 140F, then "seal off" the kettle or transfer to a fermenter or other container and let it cool off the rest of the way.

I have a few reasons for going no chill. One reason is that I've had trouble chilling the wort with an immersion chiller during the heat of the summer. The tap water is very warm and, even with using a submersible pump in an ice bath, it takes a LONG time to cool it down. I end up having to cool it down the rest of the way with my freezer. Another reason is that I want to stop using so much water to chill. Even with recirculating water in a tub, it still takes a lot of water. Overall, I think that doing no chill would save me a fair bit of time, effort, water, and frustration. The hybrid technique you mentioned isn't a bad idea.

 

[hotbeer]

The tap water is very warm and, even with using a submersible pump in an ice bath, it takes a LONG time to cool it down.

How long is too long? Perhaps your chiller is undersized for the volume you are trying to cool.

But if you are wanting to do no chill, why not just spring for a decent container to move it to that will serve as your FV too. There are some plastic jugs and buckets that will handle the heat. Or just move to SS.

Though I'm suspecting your reasons for keeping it out of the FV might be for getting clearer wort. However for me and some others, clearer wort going into the FV sometimes means cloudier beer out of the keg or bottle.

 

[GoodTruble]

I've done this several times and had good results every time.

My motivation was simply to make brew day as simple as possible, and sick of wasting so much water (especially with summer tap water temps).

I bought "chill bags" at morebeer. But they are only 5 gallon size, and I usully brew 6-8 gallons. So I decided to just chill inside the kettles.

My fermenters (fermzilla all-rounders) allegedly can't handle anything above 120F, so I just plastic wrap the kettles and pour into fermters the next day (with starters ready to go). -I also brew two beers each brew day, so I do this with two kettles each time and haven't had any problems. Though I am mindful of hop additions/amounts due to the above concerns and adjust.

But @Holden Caulfield 's advice is very timely because I am brewing a Pilsner Saturday (thanks).

 

[CyberFox]

How long is too long? Perhaps your chiller is undersized for the volume you are trying to cool.

But if you are wanting to do no chill, why not just spring for a decent container to move it to that will serve as your FV too. There are some plastic jugs and buckets that will handle the heat. Or just move to SS.

Though I'm suspecting your reasons for keeping it out of the FV might be for getting clearer wort. However for me and some others, clearer wort going into the FV sometimes means cloudier beer out of the keg or bottle.

Too long means hours. My chiller is an adequate size, so that's not the issue. Overall, it's just a PITA for me to chill my wort down the conventional way. I already have a container to use for no chill. I was just wondering if anyone had tried cooling in the kettle to save extra steps, but I imagine those extra steps are necessary to make better beer, which is what I'm after. I like the idea of going all stainless steel, but I'm done spending money on equipment (for now...).

 

[pvtpublic]

@Holden Caulfield +1 on this. And to piggy back a little, lightly kilned malts contain more S-methylmethionine (SMM) which is the precursor to dimethylsulfide (DMS). During the kilning process, SMM is broken down by the heat, therefore the more a malt is kilned, the less SMM is present, reducing the formation of DMS. SMM begins breaking down into DMS at higher temperatures, but it being a sulfur compound, is volatile and is driven off faster than it converts in the boil. So with light malts, predominantly Pilsner malts, its important to have a vigorous and uncovered boil, and to chill it below its converting temp as quickly as possible. However, I've heard differing opinions of what temperature it starts converting. The most common one is 140F and above.

Well, I guess I piggy backed a little more than a little...

 

[Bobby_M]

just how is oxidation damage going to happen? when the yeast is pitched and fermentation starts, all the oxygen is used up. Why else is "oxygenating" wort when pitching a thing?

Biggest issue is the late hops additions getting ruined. Maybe just skip all late boil additions and dry hop instead?

Oxygen is the source of all staling reactions. You can't just leave wort sitting around with oxygen in the headspace for 16 hours and not expect damage. There's this raging wishful thinking that oxygen will sit around, as if it were an inert gas, and wait for the yeast to come along so it can be consumed. It doesn't work that way. The only no chill process that works reasonably well is a collapsible container that can contract without drawing oxygen in.

Next time you brew a batch, after you reach room temp, fill one 1 liter bottle to the brim and cap it. Fill another one half way and cap it. Leave both out overnight and then taste them both.

 

[bracconiere]

just a thought if you want to try it, what about a large silicone stretch lid to cover the pot?

 

[HopSing]

I'm unsure about the no-chill aspects of using the boil kettle, but I do chill and ferment in the boil kettle on a regular basis with great results. It does require building an airtight seal, which can be achieved with a silicone hose with 1/8" wall and a bunch of 1" binder clips. There are a few posts about how to make the seal using food grade silicone to join the ends of the silicone hose which does work since silicone sticks to silicone.

If I was to attempt no-chill in the boil kettle, I would get the seal figured out, then purge the headspace with CO2 before sealing it off. After reaching target temperature, pitch yeast, re-seal the kettle, and let it ferment.

~HopSing.

 

[oakbarn]

Get a plate chiller like this:

Plate Chiller

IMHO, Longer and bigger is better. Even if your tap water is warm, like 90F in August, it will get it down very quickly to around that. Throw some chilled ice water once there in the tap water side and quickly down to pitch. I know you can use gravity but a pump works get with it.

One of our Brewery Paradigms:

#3: Pumps are better

 

[rancocas]

I've done it before. It flies against everything I was taught about brewing but it works.

Be sure to pull your hops out to prevent them from continuing to work. Put the lid on the batch and carefully bring it in somewhere where the wind won't blow on it and people won't bump into it. It will cool to ambient temp overnight and you can rack it to the fermenter and pitch in the morning.

A couple caveats here:
1. Have your yeast ready to go. You have freshly sugary wort waiting for something inoculate it so do not delay.
2. You'll have to figure out how to get it to pitching temp somehow since unless you're brewing in the dead of winter, ambient temp is probably incompatible with pitching temp.

Try the method and see if you like it.

I have been doing no chill for over 60 batches so far. No oxydation, no contamination, just good beer.

Of course I am equipped correctly and adjusted my process.

 

[Dland]

It does not take much time or water to drop temp from boiling to 160F with an immersion chiller. About 10 minutes with a low to moderate water flow though chiller will do it. If one wanted to save water and go no chill from there, the DMS concerns would be eliminated.

 

[BPenny]

I have left wort to cool overnight in a kettle and it doesn’t appear to be a problem, even with very pale hoppy beers. I mostly brew mixed fermentation saisons and sour beers though, so I’m not too worried about the potential for “contamination”, and I suspect ambient cooling may not work well with styles that are more sensitive to oxidation.

Have you tried doing a partial boil? Personally I find little reason to boil the entire volume of wort, and adding a gallon or two of chilled bottled water for a 5 gallon batch post boil (often in tandem with an ice bath), can get the wort down to 100-140 F in a few seconds, which always results in a nice cold break.

 

[GoodTruble]

@BPenny - I hadn't thought about going back to adding ice/cold water. I did that a few times when I was just doing 2-gallon stove top batches, and the results were good. I may give that another try with 1 gallon of frozen water.

 

[BongoYodeler]

It does not take much time or water to drop temp from boiling to 160F with an immersion chiller. About 10 minutes with a low to moderate water flow though chiller will do it. If one wanted to save water and go no chill from there, the DMS concerns would be eliminated.

A week ago I used my new Jaded Hydra IC to cool my wort. It went from flame-out to under 100°f in about 3 minutes, with 70°f water from the faucet. 5-10 minutes later the wort was sitting around 80°f but wouldn't budge any further. So I racked to the fermenter, sealed it, and pitched the yeast the next day. My advice to @CyberFox is, if possible, invest in a better chiller.

 

[chthon]

I also went this way to make it simpler to split up my brews over three evenings:

• Evening one: mash, filter and pasteurise
  • Pull airtight bag over lid and let cool overnight
• Evening two: boiling and hopping
  • Put kettle in sink with cold water and ice
  • Add flameout hops if necessary
  • Pull airtight bag over lid and let cool overnight
• Evening three: add yeast

This is only handy because I brew at most 2.5 gallons.

 

[Dland]

A week ago I used my new Jaded Hydra IC to cool my wort. It went from flame-out to under 100°f in about 3 minutes, with 70°f water from the faucet. 5-10 minutes later the wort was sitting around 80°f but wouldn't budge any further. So I racked to the fermenter, sealed it, and pitched the yeast the next day. My advice to @CyberFox is, if possible, invest in a better chiller.

Yeah, I use a plate chiller too, after the inital temp drop to hop step and past the DMS zone with immersion chiller.( I brew a lot of lagers) to bring it to pitch temp after hop step. Have to pump to cellar anyway.

Just trying to point out it is much easier to drop temp from high temp to medium temp than from medium temp to low temp. Physics principal related to thermodynamics. But I prolly did not express thought very concisely.

 

[Dynachrome]

My normal method. I keave my boil pots on the back deck to cool.

My thread

I place a weight on the lid. There is no nead for cellophane or such.

 

[sibelman]

Papazian simply said, "It is always important to chill the wort as quickly as possible." This basic wisdom from my early brewing days still leaves me uncomfortable whenever my wort sits for hours cooling the last ~10°F (in a closed fermenter) before pitching. It's also uncomfortable to dump many gallons of summertime tap water on the ground or down the drain. In the summer I get both kinds of discomfort.

Clearly, fine beer can be made even with slow wort chilling. But let's not make a virtue of necessity.

 

[hotbeer]

For a less than a couple dollars each you can get some hot fill bladder bags. When you dump your wort in them you can squeeze all the air out and then let the wort cool.

You could even just put a stopper and airlock in them if you wanted to use them as a fermenter.

Just google up Hot Fill Bags Homebrewing and disregard the hits for what's obviously BIAB bags for mashing... unless you want some of those too.

I've not done no-chill, but I've thought about it some. And these are probably the way I'd go.

 

[Drewch]

There's a whole bunch of lambic brewers in Belgium who leave their wort overnight uncovered to cool.

I've done no-chill a few times with no discernable ill effects. But I do small batches (about 6.5 liters) that cool reasonably quickly.

 

[SanPancho]

@CyberFox if you wanna do no chill, then do nochill. dont let anyone here scare you off. i'll tell you one thing no one's saying, your wort will by crystal clear the next morning. its amazing.

there are concerns, but they're fairly easily addressed. pilsner can be an issue. easiest solution? use the lightest 2row you can get instead. barring that, if you just gotta have pilsner, then boil for 90min vs 60m. nearly all precursors are gone at that point.

oxygenation. yes, can be bad. i'd do hybrid- run your chiller for a while until you see the temp drop rate start to get slow, then once you feel its becoming wasteful then just seal it up. as noted above, you can do sliced silicone tubing and clamps. if you go that route, i'd just put your co2 tank at like 1-2psi and just gently fill the headspace for 5min. then seal and call it a day.

have your yeast ready to go and pitch in the am.

the hot fill bags noted above also work well, but you lose the crystal clear wort result. unless you can figure how to have it standing up and then rack out without stirring everything up again.

in any case, pick a non-hoppy recipe, and just do it. if tastes like oxygenation is a problem, then stop. not a big deal.

 

[pvtpublic]

If you drink your batch quick enough, oxygenation is a thing of the past!

 

[CyberFox]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone here had success doing a hoppy beer with no chill? I keep hearing that no chill doesn't work for hoppy beer, but I figured that it would just act like an extended hop stand if you threw hops into the cube. I was planning on trying no chill and adding only a very minimal bittering addition and a flameout addition.

 

[Ninoid]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone here had success doing a hoppy beer with no chill? I keep hearing that no chill doesn't work for hoppy beer, but I figured that it would just act like an extended hop stand if you threw hops into the cube. I was planning on trying no chill and adding only a very minimal bittering addition and a flameout addition.

Try dryhop.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the input everyone. Has anyone here had success doing a hoppy beer with no chill? I keep hearing that no chill doesn't work for hoppy beer, but I figured that it would just act like an extended hop stand if you threw hops into the cube. I was planning on trying no chill and adding only a very minimal bittering addition and a flameout addition.

See my post in #2:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-wort-in-kettle-overnight.704231/post-9344732

Try dryhop.

That would be the best way.

 

[mscroggi]

Why not use the container? For $15 you can get one of these.. Put the wort in it as hot as you like.. screw on the lid and let it cool till the next day. North Mountain Supply 5 Gallon Vented Plastic Hedpak/Carboy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific No fuss. Super easy and effective. Bonus - you have a water jug to fetch your brew water.

 

[Ninoid]

Why not use the container? For $15 you can get one of these.. Put the wort in it as hot as you like.. screw on the lid and let it cool till the next day. North Mountain Supply 5 Gallon Vented Plastic Hedpak/Carboy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific No fuss. Super easy and effective. Bonus - you have a water jug to fetch your brew water.

I am not sure that plastic does not release formaldehyde at temperatures above 80'C. I'm not happy with hot liquid in a plastic container. This is why I always cool the wort below 70'C before pouring it into the plastic fermenter.