Pastuerizing question for 1st time cider maker..

[ajn]

All,
Long time beer maker, 1st time cider maker. My buddy built a press and a shredder, and we are gearing up for next weekend. We are hoping for 3 different 5 or 6 gallon batches to play with different yeasts and alternate flavors. We will be doing a combo of kegging and bottling. Another friend of mine does cider often and typically kegs. What he does is after pressing, and before fermenting, heats the cider on the stove top and holds it at a temperature just prior to boiling, for 15 minutes or so. Seeing how his kegs haven't had an issue, I'm not worried there, but what about the bottles and more long term storage?

Also, thinking of a champagne yeast, an English ale beer yeast, and trying to get a wild yeast going...any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks!


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[natehoekstra]

Be sure not to boil the cider or pectins will set and form a permanent haze. Also don't pasteurize the wild yeast one obviously.

 

[homicider]

There's a popular method for stove top pasturizing stickied at the top of this forum, I used it for the first time this past wednesday and it worked well for me. just be sure to check carbonation levels in the bottles before they go in the water bath, if you're carbonating them that is.

 

[bernardsmith]

There's a popular method for stove top pasturizing stickied at the top of this forum, I used it for the first time this past wednesday and it worked well for me. just be sure to check carbonation levels in the bottles before they go in the water bath, if you're carbonating them that is.

What is the purpose of pasteurizing cider? If you want it sweet, ferment dry, stabilize and then backsweeten and if you want it sparkling then ferment dry and prime. If you want it sweet and sparkling then ferment dry, stabilize and backsweeten and then force carbonate. What exactly is the purpose of heating the cider unless it is to destroy the flavor - or make jam... or you want to see how much pressure your bottles can withstand before they explode... none of these results seem particularly worthwhile, are they?

 

[javalin]

All,
Long time beer maker, 1st time cider maker. My buddy built a press and a shredder, and we are gearing up for next weekend. We are hoping for 3 different 5 or 6 gallon batches to play with different yeasts and alternate flavors. We will be doing a combo of kegging and bottling. Another friend of mine does cider often and typically kegs. What he does is after pressing, and before fermenting, heats the cider on the stove top and holds it at a temperature just prior to boiling, for 15 minutes or so. Seeing how his kegs haven't had an issue, I'm not worried there, but what about the bottles and more long term storage?

Also, thinking of a champagne yeast, an English ale beer yeast, and trying to get a wild yeast going...any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Hey AJN, glad to see you've joined the dark side . The heating your friend does is most likely for pasteurizing the cider, which you won't want to do for your wild yeast batch. Just dump it straight into the carboy and put on your airlock, easy as well as ambitious.
The other tips I can offer would be to get some pectic enzyme to help clear up your cider. Apples naturally have a lot of pectin which will cause your cider to be cloudy.
In regards to bottles and more long term storage, just treat your cider like you would a beer and you'll be fine, regardless of how your carb. (dark bottles, out of sunlight etc.) Cider doesn't seem to be quite as sensitive as beer.
Since you're using fresh pressed cider make sure you have carboys ready for secondary. There's going to be a lot of sediment falling out in primary and you're going to want to get it off.
Add some yeast nutrient into your primary fermenter. Apples lack a lot of the nutrients that yeasts need in order to do their job. Adding nutrient should cut your fermentation time by at least half.

This last one is just a personal preference. I really like a hopped cider, and I would recommend adding the hops of your choice to your english ale batch while heating. The champagne yeast can be your run of the mill cider.

 

[homicider]

What is the purpose of pasteurizing cider? If you want it sweet, ferment dry, stabilize and then backsweeten and if you want it sparkling then ferment dry and prime. If you want it sweet and sparkling then ferment dry, stabilize and backsweeten and then force carbonate. What exactly is the purpose of heating the cider unless it is to destroy the flavor - or make jam... or you want to see how much pressure your bottles can withstand before they explode... none of these results seem particularly worthwhile, are they?

As this is my 3rd post it's obvious I'm new to this, only on my fourth batch of cider, but from my understanding it allows you to naturally carb in the bottle then kill the yeast for longer term storage and in my case shipping it to friends and family.

I dont know how hot you have to get cider to ruin the flavor but in my case it tastes the same, has a mild carbonation that hasn't changed since I pasturized and not one bottle exploded. These are all positive results in my eyes since I can ship some back home for family that grew to enjoy my ciders before I moved.

 

[bernardsmith]

I guess that if you add yeast to apple juice and then kill it by pasteurization before it has finished converting all the sugar to alcohol and CO2 then you can obtain a sweet and carbonated cider but you have no way of controlling either the sweetness or the volume of CO2 in those bottles. If they taste the way you like 'em and they don't explode over time, then good luck to you. Me? I prefer some more control over the ciders I make . To each their own.

 

[Maylar]

What is the purpose of pasteurizing cider? If you want it sweet, ferment dry, stabilize and then backsweeten and if you want it sparkling then ferment dry and prime. If you want it sweet and sparkling then ferment dry, stabilize and backsweeten and then force carbonate. What exactly is the purpose of heating the cider unless it is to destroy the flavor - or make jam... or you want to see how much pressure your bottles can withstand before they explode... none of these results seem particularly worthwhile, are they?

Most cider makers can't force carbonate. So, for sweet and sparkling you can sweeten with non fermentable sugar and prime or backsweeten/prime with fermentable sugar and "halt" fermentation with pasteurization. It's a crap shoot how much sugar will get converted and how much will be left.

Jam... lol. Good point.

 

[Yooper]

What is the purpose of pasteurizing cider? If you want it sweet, ferment dry, stabilize and then backsweeten and if you want it sparkling then ferment dry and prime. If you want it sweet and sparkling then ferment dry, stabilize and backsweeten and then force carbonate. What exactly is the purpose of heating the cider unless it is to destroy the flavor - or make jam... or you want to see how much pressure your bottles can withstand before they explode... none of these results seem particularly worthwhile, are they?

Most cider makers can't force carbonate. So, for sweet and sparkling you can sweeten with non fermentable sugar and prime or backsweeten/prime with fermentable sugar and "halt" fermentation with pasteurization. It's a crap shoot how much sugar will get converted and how much will be left.

Jam... lol. Good point.

Right. If they could force carbonate and keep it in a keg, they wouldn't pasteurize it.

Luckily, even though I keg, I don't like sweet cider (or anything sweet actually) and so I either do a little carb, or bottle it still, but I still like it tart and dry so I've never pasteurized.

 

[MindenMan]

I want slightly sweet, carbonated cider. Here is what I have done: back sweeten with apple juice concentrate until desired level of sweetness is attained, then add appropriate amount of priming sugar. Use at least two PET bottles for testers, and the rest can be anything you want, glass, etc. When the cider gets to the level of carbonation I have calculated for, I pasteurize, and have sweet, fizzy cider, just like I planned.

 

[ajn]

Thanks all for the input. Pressing went great, 3 5 or 6 gallons carboys fermented out in a week. The wild yeast 1 gallon, is taking its time



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[ohiochris]

I just pasteurized a batch of cider in the bottle. I was able to backsweeten the cider before bottling with enough sugar , actually I used frozen juice concentrate , to have a sweet and carbonized cider without worrying about the yeast dangerously over pressurizing the bottles over time. And it was nice being able to use natural fermentable sugars to do it , which in my opinion is healthier.