Partigyle question - how do i hit target volumes?

[nosnhojm20]

Need to brew a bunch as I'm running low and figured I'd experiment with a partigyle. I am fairly confident in recipe formulation but have another question: do I mash in thin to hit my volumes on first and second runnings? If I'm trying to hit 2 5 gallon batches am I doing a single infusion without sparge? (I batch sparge)

Any other advice or clarifying questions are welcome.

 

[nosnhojm20]

Is recipe formulation for a grain Bedford a10 gallon batch and then aim for 50/50 volumes?

 

[Irishwhiskey]

Need to brew a bunch as I'm running low and figured I'd experiment with a partigyle. I am fairly confident in recipe formulation but have another question: do I mash in thin to hit my volumes on first and second runnings? If I'm trying to hit 2 5 gallon batches am I doing a single infusion without sparge? (I batch sparge)

Any other advice or clarifying questions are welcome.

How I understand it and I just started to also.research this, is Yes your first wort will be single infusion no sparge until u hit your target pre-boil volume 3.5 gallons to get an OG of 1.080 (not to confident on the OG ). Than to get your second wort you sparge to get your second target volume.and OG of maybe 1.045-1.050

 

[JuGordon]

I just did a partigyle almost two weeks ago. You volume of water should be such that you get your preboil volume with your first runnings. Your mash will be much thinner than you are used to. Here is a cool table to help with everything: http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.2/moshertable.html

So, for your first beer/runnings, add enough water to take into account grain absorption, MLT dead space, and boil off for a full 5 gallon no sparge batch.

Then, for your second beer/runnings, treat it as a 5 gallon batch sparge. Everything you put in then will come out.

BTW, I called my partigyle the Benedict Arnold. The first runnings were turned into a Double IPA (The General) and the second runnings were an English Pale Ale (The Traitor). We'll see how it works out.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

Then, for your second beer/runnings, treat it as a 5 gallon batch sparge. Everything you put in then will come out.

What about timing? Do you time it like a batch sparge? I read somewhere that you can also treat it like a second mash, leaving the hot water in the mash tun for an hour or whatever the length of your mash would be. I did that for a Russian Imperial Stout. The first runnings and part of the second went into the boil for the RIS; the rest of the second runnings became a mild.

 

[JuGordon]

I left it in there for about 20 minutes. I didn't see the use in having it sit in there for a full hour. I forget what my numbers were, something like 1.080 for the first runnings and 1.036 for the second. You'd probably get a little bit more out of it with a longer hold for the second runnings, but I was happy with my results.

Also, if you don't hit quite where you wanted with your second runnings, just throw in some DME to compensate. There's no shame in that, IMO.

 

[RonPopeil]

collect about a gallon or so extra on your first run. run off your second run and then add about a gallon or so from your first runnings to build up the second runnings. top off the kettle with an estimated evap volume to keep your target gravity/volume close.

 

[gbx]

"Partigyle" to homebrewers usually just means "batch sparge a big beer and make something from what is left". It is possible to hit the gravity and volume of both beers but its close to impossible unless you are willing to blend or padding out the beers with some sort of sugar. Take the recipe for your small beer and add it to your recipe for the big beer. ie. if you want to do a 1.060 and 1.040, take enough grain for your 1.060 beer (~13lbs for 5gal) plus enough grain for 5gals of 1.040 (~8lbs) plus a couple extra lbs for good measure. Mash all the grain as you normally would but collect the first 5 gals into a bucket, the second 5gals into a 2nd bucket and the 3rd 5gals in a 3rd bucket. Take gravity readings and do some math to figure out the amount of each needed to hit the expected gravities of each beer. You can either blend before boiling (probably the easiest homebrewer option) or boil each gyle separately and blend post boil or post fermentation.

 

[RonPopeil]

"Partigyle" to homebrewers usually just means "batch sparge a big beer and make something from what is left". It is possible to hit the gravity and volume of both beers but its close to impossible unless you are willing to blend or padding out the beers with some sort of sugar. Take the recipe for your small beer and add it to your recipe for the big beer. ie. if you want to do a 1.060 and 1.040, take enough grain for your 1.060 beer (~13lbs for 5gal) plus enough grain for 5gals of 1.040 (~8lbs) plus a couple extra lbs for good measure. Mash all the grain as you normally would but collect the first 5 gals into a bucket, the second 5gals into a 2nd bucket and the 3rd 5gals in a 3rd bucket. Take gravity readings and do some math to figure out the amount of each needed to hit the expected gravities of each beer. You can either blend before boiling (probably the easiest homebrewer option) or boil each gyle separately and blend post boil or post fermentation.

my idea of "partigyle" brewing is also known as combined grist brewing. the method i described is how i've done those brew days in the past. ymmv, rdwhahb, etc.

 

[nosnhojm20]

I appreciate all the info. I've read all it all over the place but it makes more sense all in one place here.

The IIPA will be PartiGuy and the pale ale will be PartiGirl. I'll report back in about a month. Keep the discuSsion going, I think it'll be a good resource for all.

 

[JayDubWill]

I just did two different partigyle beers as well (4 beers total, all 5 gallon batches). The big beer was an imperial pumpkin and the small beer was an english mild. The gravity of the first beer came out much higher than expected at 1.098 and the mild came in at 1.028. I didn't want to blend the two since I mashed the first beer with actual pumpkin in a grain bag. For the mild I removed the bag. If you have the ability to keep both worts in buckets or 1 in a bucket and the second in your kettle then it would be easier to hit your target gravities by blending if the styles are similar enough. BTW Beer smith has a tool for that under Tools/dilution tool. If you haven't listened to the BrewStrong podcast on partigyle I recommend it. Jamil Zainasheff even suggests there are no hard rules for this brewing method. I added a pound of brown sugar to the mild to bump up the gravity to 1.036. Last weekend I brewed a stout/porter partigyle and added two pounds of pale malt and 4oz of roasted barley for the porter to get a similar abv as the stout. I let the grains and extra grains for the porter mash again for an hour while I boiled the stout. I think any time you are brewing a big beer or even if you just need to restock the pipeline, partigyle is an exciting and very cost effective brewing method. The mild cost me like a $1.98 for the brown sugar and $2 for the yeast (harvested 3rd gen). The porter was only slightly more for the added grains.

 

[gbx]

If you haven't listened to the BrewStrong podcast on partigyle I recommend it. Jamil Zainasheff even suggests there are no hard rules for this brewing method.

The partigyle episode is the WORST brewstrong episode ever. He says there are no hard rules but the guy is far from an expert on the subject. I guess they were drunk and NHC so maybe thats an excuse for phoning it in. Quite often they bring in experts as guests and dig deep into a subject but on this ep they could have done better with anyone from the audience who actually paid attention to the Fuller's interview on CYBI. Jamil cites the interview but gets all the details wrong. There is nothing wrong with a simple batch sparge but there is so much more Jamil and Palmer didnt even acknowledge. If you are interested in how partigyle was actually done here is a good place to start http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2010/04/party-gyles.html and here is a an example from fullers process adapted for homebrewing http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2009/05/lets-brew-wednesday-fullers-1920-pa-ak.html

 

[JayDubWill]

good points gbx, the only part I found to be horrendous is Jamil pushing Adam&Eve.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

Thanks for posting the link to Pattinson's blog, gbx. That's where I got the idea to do it with the RIS I made. It's interesting to think about breweries like Fullers building all of their production around parti-gyle.

 

[BradleyBrew]

Good info on here..I've been brewing parti-gyle for the past few months. Just be be aware that your second running will be very pale in color. I keep some crystal malts on hand and steep to hit the SRM I am looking for in the small beer.

 

[JuGordon]

I did the same thing. I also threw in some victory to get a more English character out of the second runnings.