Oxidation using the Fermentasaurus? using the dump valve

[macebrew]

Hi -

I currently own a Fermentasaurus and have used it on the last few batches... using the trub dump valve... sanitizing... and then replacing the container.

I am wondering if I am introducing unwanted oxygen into the beer each time I do this. I screw on an empty container.. and then open the valve again, where the beer flows down... and the oxygen flows up into the beer? Doing this 4-5 times for a batch....

How is this OK? seems like a bad idea for my NEIPA's... am I right? Am i doing something wrong?

I should mention the reason for doing this is to get rid of the trub at the bottom of the fermenter - and then once its clear I transfer into a keg using the spicket at the bottom and some tubing.

I am wondering if I am better off just using this without the spicket/ never dropping the trub - and just going back to my siphon.

Can anyone provide some insight on this for me?

 

[azmark]

4-5 times a bit excessive? If done once or twice during active fermentation the O2 should be scrubbed a bit by yeast and blowoff.

 

[BrewInspector]

Yes you are introducing oxygen each time. I have a couple fast ferment conicals. I will only dump once for this reason.

I would include the entire contents of the boil when using a bucket but with the fast ferment I try to minimize trub going into the fermenter in order to reduce what collects in the ball.

A single dump is all I usually will need. When it comes time to package I remove the collection ball and go from there

 

[macebrew]

4-5 times a bit excessive? If done once or twice during active fermentation the O2 should be scrubbed a bit by yeast and blowoff.

well I would do it enough times so that only clean wort was left by the time it ready to keg. I thought the idea of this with the spicket at the bottom is to transfer to the keg from the bottom?

I am making an NEIPA that ends up with about 1 gallon worth of trub at the bottom of the fermenter. I am taking out 500ml at a time.... so 5 times seems about right?

 

[MSK_Chess]

you are missing the best thing about owning a Fermentasuarus, the ability to spund out your beer under pressure, self carbonate and serving from the Fermentasuarus or doing a completely closed transfer to a keg. Yeast is our best friend, it will consume all the oxygen it can get. If I was you I would be inclined to leave the yeast in the Fermentasuarus. I have seem people try to purge the little container that you get with Co2 before reattaching it but I remain unconvinced of its efficacy. As to the chances of oxidising your beer i doubt it as long as active fermentation is ongoing. Try a few experiments, leave the yeast alone once and then harvest it next time to see if there is any difference.

 

[macebrew]

Yes you are introducing oxygen each time. I have a couple fast ferment conicals. I will only dump once for this reason.

I would include the entire contents of the boil when using a bucket but with the fast ferment I try to minimize trub going into the fermenter in order to reduce what collects in the ball.

A single dump is all I usually will need. When it comes time to package I remove the collection ball and go from there

Yes, I can see this being useful if I only had enough trub to dump it one time and then keg. but this process of 4-5 dumps - introducing the oxygen each time... seems counter productive.

Again, this is a NEIPA with 10-12 oz of hops - including the hops in the dry hop -- so it really builds up at the bottom. Maybe not the best style with this method.

 

[macebrew]

you are missing the best thing about owning a Fermentasuarus, the ability to spund out your beer under pressure, self carbonate and serving from the Fermentasuarus or doing a completely closed transfer to a keg. Yeast is our best friend, it will consume all the oxygen it can get. If I was you I would be inclined to leave the yeast in the Fermentasuarus. I have seem people try to purge the little container that you get with Co2 before reattaching it but I remain unconvinced of its efficacy. As to the chances of oxidising your beer i doubt it as long as active fermentation is ongoing. Try a few experiments, leave the yeast alone once and then harvest it next time to see if there is any difference.

yes, doing a closed transfer to the keg is my next step. I do not know how to do this yet - but i think it will be very helpful. Serving under pressure using this doesnt seem practical to me with the size of this thing. I would need a walk in cooler! ha. it would take up my whole fridge... doesnt fit in my kegerator... etc.

 

[GPP33]

I’ve always wondered how you could do this on one of those without introducing air bubbling up through your beer. Sounds like an absolutely absurd thing to do. Hopefully for your sake someone chimes in with a solution. Absolutely no way would I ever bubble 2.5 liters of air though my beer. In fact, I’m begging you, for the sake of all things beer, please stop.

 

[jimmyjusa]

yes, doing a closed transfer to the keg is my next step. I do not know how to do this yet - but i think it will be very helpful. Serving under pressure using this doesnt seem practical to me with the size of this thing. I would need a walk in cooler! ha. it would take up my whole fridge... doesnt fit in my kegerator... etc.

To do the closed transfer you'd need the pressure kit and would probably need to use that the whole time. when ready get a liquid to liquid connector to go from fermenter to keg. Then purge keg with co2 first but at a lower psi then add the co2 to fermenter, then connect the liquid connections and as long as three keg is a lower pressure your beer should start flowing. You'll need to pull the pressure release on the keg a few times as it fills. I don't have one of these but this is how they did it on a yt channel called "smarty pints" when they did it for the first time on camera so they were troubleshooting along the way.

 

[BrewInspector]

I don't make NEIPA so I'm not familiar with them beyond their appearance and the term "juicy".

Could you reduce the amount of hop debris by using bags for the hop additions or using whole hops in bags when possible? This might reduce the bulk of the debris that is collecting in the container leaving only the finest particles.

Just a thought on how you might proceed.

 

[kbaggen]

Hi there,
also on a Fermentasuarus!

I really questioning you will introduce a lot O2 by the big bubbles going up at the trump dumping. If it was a lot of small burbles I might have different view, but after seeing it a few times I guess most of that air(O2) just goes to the top and get excluded by CO2! So if yo only do the trub removal a few times, you should be fine!

Using RIMS and as such I normally have 1 trub removal and then 1 yeast bottles before I bottled directly from it using sugar tabs!

Se my site for details: http://posebryg.bagge-nielsen.dk/2018/05/01/bottling-with-sugar-cubes-and-fermentasaurus/

So if you dumb trub 5 times something is wrong in your process I guess, and you should consider to leave more of the trub behind in you pot (I say you are greedy !!

Regarding, dry hoping, then I use those keg metal filters, also shown in about link! Never ever make use of loose hops in Fermentasuarus as it is a nightmare to get out!

Also, I always add a small amount of sugar when replacing the yeast-collector bottle, and I fill it nearly up with boil-water (cooled till 50-60´C) to further limited the O2 exposure, hence, no or little burbles Boiling the water before using it remove a good share of O2 too (needs to be used fast as else O2 goes into it again). Hence, I plan recipe for 1-2 boiled water additions!

Generally, the Fermentasuarus is greath for NEIPAs as you can really lower the o2 exposure by the above + using sugar tabs (e.g. removing a transfer and connected O2 exposure). By a keen eye on the bottling process you can make decent NEIPAs in bottles. And please remember the yeast in the bottle can also combat eventually introduced O2....just as it can in kegs if you carbonate naturally in those!

The only thing I hold against Fermentasuarusis it cannot be cleaned by boiling water, and as such getting an infection can be a dead full process to get out again! Please notice that!

Sorry for bad english=I am Danish!

 

[jaymosbeershack]

I use a fermentasaurus as well. I use the bottle to collect the first chunks, but dont replace it. I just put a large bowl under the butterfly valve and run right out of it. Short burst work greak and since i have co2 above the beer i know there is no O2 introduced.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Is there any way you could get wide enough tubing that wouldn't clog? Yeast and trub would flow through the tubing and into the container and should exclude any significant oxygen. Otherwise, just carefully dump it into a bowl like above. I don't see how you couldn't be introducing lots of oxygen doing it how the manufacturer intended.