Oxiclean and distilled vinegar?

[Miraculix]

Hello good folks of homebrewtalk,

My oxiclean leaves a powdery residue which cannot be rinsed away with hot water. What works is a quick vinegar soak.

My question is, could I combine my oxyclean soak with distilled vinegar right from the beginning to keep the powdery stuff in solution? Would the lower ph somehow inhibit the oxyclean?

Cheers!

M

 

[odie]

My oxiclean leaves a powdery residue which cannot be rinsed away with hot water.

I haven't noticed that. What I have noticed is that something "slippery" tends to remain and needs to be rinsed extra.

I supposed if it dried I might see white residue.

I've been using generic dollar store "oxiclean" in my kegs and buckets.

I wonder if there is residue in my beer?

 

[sibelman]

Combining the high-pH Oxi with the low-pH vinegar would likely reduce the cleaning effectiveness. In my experience, Oxi should be used for only a fairly short period (say, 15 minutes), and then promptly and thoroughly rinsed.

Soaking Oxi in a glass carboy for hours produced a durable mark (residue? etching?) at the water line that I could not remove, even with 31% hydrochloric acid.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Yep. Oxy at a not-too-high dosage. Hot water. Rinse the Oxy water off with hot water before the bath turns cool.

It's when I've left the goods in the Oxy bath for a day or two that I've dealt with the powder deposits. Get it in, get it out, all is well.

 

[IslandLizard]

Soaking Oxi in a glass carboy for hours produced a durable mark (residue? etching?) at the water line that I could not remove, even with 31% hydrochloric acid.

Whoa!
I doubt Oxiclean can etch glass, although EDTA in solution can, given enough time. That's why it's always stored in plastic (such as nalgene or polypropylene) containers/bottles.

I'd be thinking more of limestone deposits in alkaline environments.
Did you try with a carboy brush, perhaps with BKF on it? Friction helps removing "scum" lines.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep. Oxy at a not-too-high dosage. Hot water. Rinse the Oxy water off with hot water before the bath turns cool.

It's when I've left the goods in the Oxy bath for a day or two that I've dealt with the powder deposits. Get it in, get it out, all is well.

I see these residues after ten minutes of soaking plus rinsing with hot water. I might be using way too much of the oxiclean though...

Combining the high-pH Oxi with the low-pH vinegar would likely reduce the cleaning effectiveness. In my experience, Oxi should be used for only a fairly short period (say, 15 minutes), and then promptly and thoroughly rinsed.

Soaking Oxi in a glass carboy for hours produced a durable mark (residue? etching?) at the water line that I could not remove, even with 31% hydrochloric acid.

That's what I thought as well.

 

[sibelman]

Whoa!
I doubt Oxiclean can etch glass, although EDTA in solution can, given enough time. That's why it's always stored in plastic (such as nalgene or polypropylene) containers/bottles.

I'd be thinking more of limestone deposits in alkaline environments.
Did you try with a carboy brush, perhaps with BKF on it? Friction helps removing "scum" lines.

Dude, I tried everything, except BKF. Scrubbed and scrubbed with a carboy brush. I too found the etching theory (gleaned from HBT, IIRC) implausible. Hard to believe that BKF would work where hydrochloric acid failed, but maybe.

I've since moved to a Spike Flex+ for other reasons. Maybe I'll try BKF in my "etched" glass carboy.

@Miraculix, for what it's worth my typical Oxi strength is very roughly 3 tablespoons or ~45 grams per gallon. (~10g/l).

 

[IslandLizard]

Dude, I tried everything, except BKF. Scrubbed and scrubbed with a carboy brush. I too found the etching theory (gleaned from HBT, IIRC) implausible. Hard to believe that BKF would work where hydrochloric acid failed, but maybe.

Hydrochloric Acid is a very strong acid, it dissolves most everything, yes. If a soak in HCl (lying the carboy on its side) doesn't remove it, it could be scratches.

If the glass is actually scratched, the twisted metal wire inside a carboy brush could be the cause. BKF should be able to scour/polish off any residue, but not smooth out scratches.

I have some surface scratches/scuff marks in my carboys in the area where the bottom of the (narrow) neck widens into the shoulder. All those are from that stiff carboy brush wire rubbing against it. I've put a piece of hose (slit lengthwise in a spiral-fashion) around that wire. That prevents it from getting worse.

@Miraculix, for what it's worth my typical Oxi strength is very roughly 3 tablespoons or ~45 grams per gallon. (~10g/l).

That's pretty strong but not excessive, I'd use a similar amount of washing soda (=Oxiclean minus the oxygen).

 

[Miraculix]

I pretty much use the same amount, give or take. Does the type of oxiclean matter? Mine is pretty much the purest one can get. Heitmann reine Sauerstoff Bleiche, if one wants to read a German label .

 

[BeerHolic]

I use 1.5 tablespoons per gallon.
If left to dry I also get white powder.

 

[sibelman]

So, rinsing thoroughly enough seems like it ought to prevent residue, at least if the stuff hasn't dried, crystallized, etc. It sometimes seems to require a lot of rinsing (4 times!) before the surfaces no longer feel slippery and rinse water no longer shows foam/bubbles.

Maybe my low-mineral tap water helps?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Maybe my low-mineral tap water helps?

Yes. Also, for me a quick diluted vinegar bath has cut right through the slime. StarSan too.

 

[sibelman]

could be scratches

Thanks for this thought. However, it's not scratching in this case. Here's the thrilling story:

To reduce (foolishly) the amount of Oxi and water needed to soak the krausen area, I put in about two gallons, then a rubber stopper, then inverted the carboy and let it sit (tilted against the sink wall) overnight - maybe longer. The resulting white etch or residue was an ellipse at the water line of my misbegotten method. It's apparently permanent.

Something happened at the water line. Whether it's some sort of extremely durable residue or a change in the glass itself is unknown. After noticing this and failing to fix it, I stopped using my foolish method.

Later, I bought my shiny Flex+ and put my lovely Italian glass carboy on a shelf. Fwiw, I doubt the etch/residue would adversely affect further use of the carboy.

I guess the point of all this is that Oxi (and, presumably, PBW) are wonderful cleaners that come with some risks and downsides. To paraphrase a famous American saying: rinse early, rinse often.

Cheers!

 

[odie]

It sometimes seems to require a lot of rinsing (4 times!) before the surfaces no longer feel slippery

That's been my experience. Feels slippery or slimy immediately after rinsing out the oxiclean.

I wonder if that's reallt residue or is that like very soft water? Soft water has that slippery soap film feeling, even though there is no more soap.

Hard water that most places have seems to prevent that "slippery soft" feeling.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I sometimes notice the powdery deposits. I wonder if it is from vary levels of calcium in my hot water since it is not consistent. The question I have is...my understanding is that the common "recipe" to mimic PBW is 3 parts Oxiclean and 1 part TSP and that TSP acts as a "chelating agent". About all I know about chelating agents is from a few minutes of reading. Is the purpose of the chelating agent to keep calcium from settling out? If I started mixing TSP with Oxiclean would I not have the problem? If so, do the phosphate free versions of TSP perform the same job?

 

[day_trippr]

In my experience it is common for PBW to leave a white ghost film if I don't rinse using at least as hot temperature water as I used to apply the PBW. But the film always comes off with white vinegar or citric acid. We have fairly hard water with bicarb around 130ppm...

Cheers!

 

[BrewZer]

I know people have recommended soaking them in vinegar and oxiclean. With vinegar, do you soak it in pure white vinegar, diluted, put it in your wash cycle, etc.? How about with oxiclean? Thanks for any tips.

Well, considering the underlying topic of this board, have you considered soaking them in beer?

They'll still smell, but they should smell a lot better!

 

[sibelman]

If you want to use vinegar and Oxi, do so in two separate soaks and rinse in between so that one cleaner doesn't neutralize the other. I'd use about 2 tablespoons of Oxi per gallon of water, and about a half-cup of vinegar in a gallon of water. Then launder as usual. Best of luck with your smelly shirts.

 

[amber-ale]

Baking sofa neutralizes smells
Make a solution of baking sofa and water, soak shirt for half an hour and wash. Or a paste @nd put onto under arm area.
This works well 8n soft water
As always, do a test spot first