Over Carbonated Homebrew

[Steady-Hopper]

I've been having a problem. My last 3 batches have been carbonated too high, resulting in bent bottle caps. I am a home-brewer of roughly 3 years, know my sanitation, and have not over measured priming sugar. I have discovered some strange sort of film on the inside of my bottles -pics will arrive - that once held beer in them. Perhaps my old plastic bottling gear has acquired an infection over the years? There was no sign of infection pre-bottling. The strange film inside my empty bottles is also worrying ... Brett pellicle? The beer doesn't taste off; it's just over carbonated.

Any help is much appreciated as I brood in frustration over my lovely IPAs becoming gushers.

 

[flars]

Do you use a bottling wand to fill your bottles? How often have you dismantled the wand, if you use one, to clean it?

 

[iijakii]

Soak your bottles in a nice bath of PBW, Oxi, Bleach ... wahtever it is you use. That'll take care of them. If your whole batch is having the same issues (IE.. not just a select few bottles) then it sounds like your bottling bucket, yes. Replace that and your hosing if so.

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Do you use a bottling wand to fill your bottles? How often have you dismantled the wand, if you use one, to clean it?

I usually soak it, and my other bottling equipment, in scalding hot bleach water along with sanitizing the next day. Could a feral yeast possibly survive this? It seems the only possible option but is rather unlikely. My second thought is that perhaps I'm not boiling my bottling water long enough. I usually boil for 5mins. This seems unlikely to me as well though.

 

[hvjackson]

I know one homebrewer who replaced everything plastic in his brew equipment every year or so, just as a matter of course. Tubing and plastic buckets are cheap. I don't know if I'd go so far as to throw everything out just because it's been 12 months, but if you have suspicions about your plastic equipment it would not cost that much to get a new bottling bucket and wand (definitely less than the cost of ingredients for a batch, and you could use the "retired" bucket to hold cleaning solution or something).

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Could any bacteria and yeast survive my rigorous cleaning pre-bottling procedures described earlier. It seems like and overnight scalding hot bleach water bath and further starsan sanitation would kill even the hardiest of bugs, no?

Either way I will be buying new plastic gear. I'm going to make a small batch of wort and pour it un-fermented into bottles sanitized with my regular method. Instead of my old siphons & bucket I will use a new plastic funnel. If it ferments perhaps its the bottles; if not, I can probably say it was some awry with the plastic gear .

 

[TheMadKing]

Just throwing things out, no insult to your process intended:

Have you checked:

bottle aging ambient temp
changed yeast pitch rate
changed primary time
changed yeast strain
changed fermentation temp (low fermentation temp, then warmer aging temp)
changed type of priming sugar (i.e. to dextrose from sucrose)

 

[Steady-Hopper]

bottle aging ambient temp: 65 degrees to 70 fairly consistently
changed yeast pitch rate: A packet of Notty per 5 gal 1.050 o.g beer
changed primary time: Roughly 1.5 weeks in primary perhaps 2 in secondary with no signs of bacteria/foreign yeast.
changed yeast strain: Notty consistently.
changed fermentation temp (low fermentation temp, then warmer aging temp): I usually ferment everything at a consistent 65 degrees.
changed type of priming sugar (i.e. to dextrose from sucrose): I always use dextrose.

Logically, it would seem to be the plastic but I sanitise it HEAVILY every bottling day. I am currently conducting a test on my bottles. It's an odd type of infection as nothing tastes out of line. My beers ferment out pretty dry (usually 1.050 - 1.009 around 80% attenuation). I generally mash low, so I doubt that fermentation is unfinished and that I'm bottling too early.

Tricky, Tricky.....

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Could it possibly be me pouring to much trub into my bucket at bottling time? I wonder if maybe that might have something to do with it. I do have a lager I did not that long ago and re-added some yeast; it has the same bent cap problem. Perhaps pouring the trub in with the sugar gets the beer hyper activated and makes it ferment out more in the bottles? You would think this would be a common problem and something I would have heard about more though...

 

[TheMadKing]

Hmmm tricky indeed. How are you washing your bottles themselves? It could be some kind of soap residue creating too much surface tension in the beer?

A post bottling infection with no off flavors just doesn't sit right with me, but I could be wrong.

 

[masskrug]

Everything else sounds good. Any chance you have a bad batch of caps? When you pop the caps do you have gushers or are the caps just bent?

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Hmmm tricky indeed. How are you washing your bottles themselves? It could be some kind of soap residue creating too much surface tension in the beer?

A post bottling infection with no off flavors just doesn't sit right with me, but I could be wrong.

I soak them in bleach water overnight, and sanitize them in starsan the next morning. I use about 100gs for 17 liters of beer or 3.5oz for 4.5gals. I bottle at 65 to 70 degrees. I'll try a bottle soon but out of all the bottles I've had (maybe a dozen) not a single one had an off flavor of any kind.

 

[dr0ker]

Any chance the scale used for measuring your priming sugar is off?

 

[Vaureywwc]

Another thing is making sure your priming sugar is stirred evenly and oxygen. It's possible to over carbonate your bottles that way.

 

[brewcat]

Could it possibly be me pouring to much trub into my bucket at bottling time? I wonder if maybe that might have something to do with it. I do have a lager I did not that long ago and re-added some yeast; it has the same bent cap problem. Perhaps pouring the trub in with the sugar gets the beer hyper activated and makes it ferment out more in the bottles? You would think this would be a common problem and something I would have heard about more though...

Pouring? Are you actually pouring or using a siphon?

How much priming sugar are you actually using? How much by weight into how many gallons of beer?

Honestly glass bottles only need a hot water rinse after use then sanitized on bottling day. The film in your bottles is maybe leftover bleach.

 

[TheMadKing]

Pouring? Are you actually pouring or using a siphon?

How much priming sugar are you actually using? How much by weight into how many gallons of beer?

Honestly glass bottles only need a hot water rinse after use then sanitized on bottling day. The film in your bottles is maybe leftover bleach.

Yeah that's pretty much what I do. I run them through the dishwasher on brew day though, with NO SOAP, on high temp wash and heated dry and call that sanitizing. Never had an issue with it.

 

[TheMadKing]

Pouring? Are you actually pouring or using a siphon?

How much priming sugar are you actually using? How much by weight into how many gallons of beer?

Honestly glass bottles only need a hot water rinse after use then sanitized on bottling day. The film in your bottles is maybe leftover bleach.

Yeah that's pretty much what I do. I run them through the dishwasher on brew day though, with NO SOAP, on high temp wash and heated dry and call that sanitizing. Never had an issue with it.

 

[chisena]

I got to the point with bottling unpredictability that I just had to start kegging. Will probably make some bombers of stout this Fall... unless I just install a nitro tap instead #hellyeah

 

[TheMadKing]

oops sorry about the double post, internet glitch

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Another thing is making sure your priming sugar is stirred evenly and oxygen. It's possible to over carbonate your bottles that way.

What is this about too much oxygen? Also I'm pretty sure everything was stirred evenly.

I would imagine that my scale is not off as I use the same scale to do grain measurements. When I pour a one pound bag of specialty malt onto the scale it reads one pound accurately.

Also I'm using a siphon; don't think that I just pour it into bottles.

As far as I can see, it must be a problem with the bottling bucket. It's just odd given how heavily I sanitize it. That being said I have used it for around 2yrs.

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Pouring? Are you actually pouring or using a siphon?

How much priming sugar are you actually using? How much by weight into how many gallons of beer?

Honestly glass bottles only need a hot water rinse after use then sanitized on bottling day. The film in your bottles is maybe leftover bleach.

Truly it's not bleach, its a powdered sanitizer that smells extremely close to bleach and I was told it basically is bleach/bleach-like. Also the film left behind is only in bottles that held beer in it and is only where beer was once held. So a bottle that was soaked in the same mixture but held no beer does not have the film.

 

[slym2none]

Could it possibly be me pouring to much trub into my bucket at bottling time? I wonder if maybe that might have something to do with it. I do have a lager I did not that long ago and re-added some yeast; it has the same bent cap problem. Perhaps pouring the trub in with the sugar gets the beer hyper activated and makes it ferment out more in the bottles? You would think this would be a common problem and something I would have heard about more though...

Too much yeast in the bottle won't cause over-carbonation. Too much priming sugar, or an infection of some sort, would.

 

[Steady-Hopper]

Too much yeast in the bottle won't cause over-carbonation. Too much priming sugar, or an infection of some sort, would.

I'm just thinking that perhaps I roused the yeast at bottling time and it began to ferment sugars that hadn't already been eaten, even if hat seems unlikely. I'll run some tests on my scale. Thanks soo muh to everyone who's replied. I love how everyone in the homebrew community is eager to help. :rockin:

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

 

[TheMadKing]

I'm just thinking that perhaps I roused the yeast at bottling time and it began to ferment sugars that hadn't already been eaten, even if hat seems unlikely. I'll run some tests on my scale. Thanks soo muh to everyone who's replied. I love how everyone in the homebrew community is eager to help. :rockin:

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

if you pour your beer into the bottling bucket rather than siphon you could be oxygenating it which would indeed roust the yeast a bit, but if that's what you've always done, why is it a problem now?

 

[Steady-Hopper]

if you pour your beer into the bottling bucket rather than siphon you could be oxygenating it which would indeed roust the yeast a bit, but if that's what you've always done, why is it a problem now?

I have no idea. I'm considering buying a keg at this point. It seems much more efficient. Interestingly enough, I put some over the overcarbed beer in the fridge last night and my who buddy drank some today found nothing wrong with the carbonation. What the hell is going on? Surely cooling beer cannot calm the co2 levels down?

 

[TheMadKing]

Lower temperatures increase the solubility of CO2 so it should get better.

 

[goikification]

Just a heads up - check your sanitizer - scalding hot water may not be doing you any favors. Things like chlorine bleach are more effective in room temperature or colder water for sanitizing purposes. (http://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm)


Hot water and detergents like PBW are the ticket for removing soil and always make sure your gear is completely soil free prior to sanitizing.

 

[pdxal]

I have no idea. I'm considering buying a keg at this point. It seems much more efficient. Interestingly enough, I put some over the overcarbed beer in the fridge last night and my who buddy drank some today found nothing wrong with the carbonation. What the hell is going on? Surely cooling beer cannot calm the co2 levels down?

Are all the beers that are over carbonated not chilled?
Cooling beer does indeed make CO2 more soluble and beer less prone to gushing.
Another idea is to test the final gravity of the beer before priming, then test it again in one of the over carbonated bottles that has degassed over a day or so so it is completely flat (don't let it get infected while going flat, though). If the finished, over carbonated beer is at a lower final gravity than it was before bottling, you have an infection that is fermenting the priming sugar plus some of the un-fermented sugars in the beer.

 

[Steady-Hopper]

So, I recently conducted a test to see if perhaps something was living in my bottles. I also threw out all my old bottling gear and replaced it with new gear, just in case some bacteria/feral yeast could be living in it. Here is the descriptor of my test:

I bottled un-fermented wort of 1.039 into the following bottles: 2 new, sanitized bottles; 1 old bottle of a presumed infected batch; and 1 bottle of a presumably non-infected batch. EVERY bottle was carbonated enough to drink after 4 days. They were all cleaned and sanitized. Gravity had dropped by maybe only 1.002 in the presumed infected bottle, but in all the other bottles gravity stayed the same. There seemed to be a touch of funkiness in all of them, but it could be the wort tasting stale after sitting 4 days in a 70 degree room. What the hell is going on? Is this something to do with temperature? The wort was put into these bottles with clean, sanitized gear that has never been used before. The only thing that remained the same was the caps; they were sanitized as well though.

 

[BowAholic]

a ring inside the bottle at the beer line, and gushing beer sounds like an infection. "gusher bugs" will continue eating what's left after fermentation causing over carbonation. I speak from experience. The racking cane, bottling wand, or even unsanitized caps could cause it...

John Palmer~Cause 2: Gusher Infection However, the sustained bubbling is often due to "gusher type" infection. These infections can occur at any time and are due to wild yeasts or bacteria that eat the higher order sugars, like dextrins. The result in the fermentor is a beer that keeps bubbling until all of the carbohydrates are fermented, leaving a beer that has no body and very little taste. If it occurs at bottling time, the beer will overcarbonate and will fizz like soda pop, fountaining out of the bottle.
Cure: Improve your sanitation next time.

-I kept all of my old plastic equipment, oxyclean, rinse, and then StarSan sanitizer...I QUIT using my dishwasher for fear of residue from food...and I took apart the bottle bucket spigot, bottling wand, and racking cane to clean them...my infection was gone.
Good luck.

 

[beergolf]

I have no idea. I'm considering buying a keg at this point. It seems much more efficient. Interestingly enough, I put some over the overcarbed beer in the fridge last night and my who buddy drank some today found nothing wrong with the carbonation. What the hell is going on? Surely cooling beer cannot calm the co2 levels down?

How long are you putting your bottles in the fridge before opening them? How long have they been bottled?

The reason I ask is the opening a warm beer wil almost always gush.. Also a beer that is starting to carb up but has not had time to get the carb into the beer will also gush. Opening a warm young beer and it will definitely gush.

 

[signpost]

It is also possible that you are just bottling too soon, before fermentation is actually complete. If so, you could add a normal amount of priming sugar and still over carb your beer, because there might still be sugar in solution.