Options with 120v 20 amp outlet

[oujens]

I'm currently laying out all my options for electric in my detached garage and trying to find a way to utilize available outlets for brewing. It seems I'm in a "got peanut butter, but no jelly" situation:

1) Have a 240v outlet, but only 20 amps.
2) Have a 120v GFCI circuit, but only 15 amps on 14 gauge wire (no upgrade to 20 amps)

I discovered today that randomly I have one exterior outlet that is 120v 20 amp with 12 gauge wire. If I want to recirculate my mash with a controller at 120v, can I utilize this outlet with an extension cord and an inline GFCI? Could I possibly tap off this outlet and install a GFCI outlet on the interior on the garage? I'm curious if I could utilize this circuit for a RIMS tube and use the 240v outlet for induction, or would I just use two 120v circuits with separate elements for boil? It seems the 240v 20 amp doesn't really have much options except a boil coil or induction. Would a boil coil work in a BIAB recirculation?

Basically I'm trying to exhaust all options before I tap out and install a 30 amp outlet in my main garage (assuming running one to my current space would be $$$$$$).

 

[BrunDog]

Why not run a 4500W element on the 240VAC line for the boil, and the same or less for your RIMs tube and/or HLT. Just use a double throw relay or switch to make sure only one can be powered at a time.

 

[oujens]

Why not run a 4500W element on the 240VAC line for the boil, and the same or less for your RIMs tube and/or HLT. Just use a double throw relay or switch to make sure only one can be powered at a time.

With the 240, it's not GFCI protected. Can a spa panel be used for this? I have a wall ac unit that has a gfci plug so don't want to change the breaker. Any chance you can point me in a direction to learn about your recommendation (not very many 240 20 amp setups). My electrical terminology is very novice at this point but am trying to learn by researching builds. Any change to panels or outlets would be done by a professional. Guess I'm thinking more plug and play at this point.

Thanks for the rec!

Edit: isn't 4500 watts on 20 amp pushing it with a controller? It was my understanding I may still want 30 amp service for this.

 

[processhead]

Your home's wire size is usually the limiting factor from both a cost and capacity standpoint.

I suggest deenergizing the 20 amp A/C breaker and checking the wiring to the air conditioner receptical to verify the wire gauge. If you are lucky, it might be 10 gauge. If it is, you could put in a 30 amp breaker and a spa panel and have enough capacity to do quite a bit.

If its just 12 gauge, you could still use it as a 20 amp circuit as the Bruindog recommended.

If someone cheated and used 14 gauge, you need to back up and correct that issue.

In any case, you could still use the spa panel to protect yourself against ground faults. The 20 amp breaker in the panel would continue to provide protection against over-current.

 

[oujens]

Your home's wire size is usually the limiting factor from both a cost and capacity standpoint.

I suggest deenergizing the 20 amp A/C breaker and checking the wiring to the air conditioner receptical to verify the wire gauge. If you are lucky, it might be 10 gauge. If it is, you could put in a 30 amp breaker and a spa panel and have enough capacity to do quite a bit.

If its just 12 gauge, you could still use it as a 20 amp circuit as the Bruindog recommended.

If someone cheated and used 14 gauge, you need to back up and correct that issue.

In any case, you could still use the spa panel to protect yourself against ground faults. The 20 amp breaker in the panel would continue to provide protection against over-current.

Thanks for the response. I attached a pic of my sub panel to the detached garage (I turned off the 60 amp breaker from the main panel which feeds this panel). Here is how I now have the wire identified:

White Romex - 14 gauge supplies the 15 amp breakers

Yellow romex - 12 gauge supplies the 120v 20 amp circuit

Black Romex - 8 gauge that supplies the 240v 20 amp circuit, and also the 60 amp breaker to the sun panel.

If the above is correct, then maybe I can upgrade that outlet. I assume I would need an adapter plug for the AC unit? But Could I get a professional to swap the outlet and breaker, leaving me with 30 amp availability?

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1499625397.927677.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1499625411.437215.jpg

 

[processhead]

Not wanting to get off on a tangent, but it doesn't sound right that the 8 gauge conductors feeding your sub-panel are fed by 60 amp breaker in your main panel. 60 amps would be too large to adequately protect them.

If you try to run a future brewing panel simultaneously with any other large loads in the garage, you may exceed the ampacity of the 8 gauge conductors feeding that sub-panel.

I think you might want to consult with an electrician before proceeding to confirm the things that you have reported.

 

[oujens]

Not wanting to get off on a tangent, but it doesn't sound right that the 8 gauge conductors feeding your sub-panel are fed by 60 amp breaker in your main panel. 60 amps would be too large to adequately protect them.

If you try to run a future brewing panel simultaneously with any other large loads in the garage, you may exceed the ampacity of the 8 gauge conductors feeding that sub-panel.

I think you might want to consult with an electrician before proceeding to confirm the things that your reported.

Yep, got it. My plan was to get a professional out once I had an idea what I wanted to do. I have a better idea what might be possible now. Never thought of the possibility to upgrade the 240v 20 amp circuit. It's possible I have not identified the proper gauge from main to sub panel. I see now that 6 gauge is black as well. Hard to see what is written on the wiring itself without getting into the guts. I'll wait for an electrician to do that.

 

[processhead]

6 gauge conductors to the sub would make more sense than 8. If you are not comfortable with identifying panel components, it makes sense to let a pro do it.

 

[oujens]

6 gauge conductors to the sub would make more sense than 8. If you are not comfortable with identifying panel components, it makes sense to let a pro do it.

Totally agree, I actually just went and looked again and I can tell the wire size is different from main to sub. Looks like 6 gauge. I'll definitely have a pro out before I do anything brew related. The thought of electric brewing Is very exciting so I can get rid of the propane, but it will do in the meantime. Safety first of course. Thanks for the pointers!

 

[itsnotrequired]

for this application, #8 on a 60 amp breaker is definitely too small. even if using thhn individual conductors, would still need to use a 50 amp breaker to protect them (and if it is romex, would need a 40 amp breaker). with #6 romex, good to go on a 60 amp breaker but be aware you will be limited to 55 amps of load, based on the maximum current carrying capacity of #6 romex. if the installation uses individual thhn conductors, you could take full advantage of the 60 amp capacity of the breaker.

 

[oujens]

I have another question as I map out my wants for electric brewing. My 240v outlet is a 6-20p receptacle (AC unit has this type of plug. I see it has two hots and a ground. The neutral is capped at both the outlet and panel. When I consult my electrician, am I wanting to swap the 20 amp breaker for a 30 and wire everything to connect to this outlet, or do I want this outlet to be swapped for a dryer type outlet and get an adapter for my AC unit to plug in? I will also address the issues above but want a better idea of what I need to request to see if it's doable.

Thanks!

 

[processhead]

If the wires to the outlet are in fact 8 gauge, then your electrician would need to replace the breaker with one that is rated for the conductors and the particulars of the installation. It most likely would be a 40 amp, but he will make that call.

You would want him to replace the existing outlet with one that has, at a minimum, 40 amp capacity, and that uses all 4 wires (L1, L2, N, Ground). Having all 4 conductors will give you the most flexibility when you build your brewing panel.
Depending on the size of the existing outlet box, he may have to install a surface mount extension box that is physically large enough to handle the new outlet.

Yes, you will need an adapter cable to allow you to run the air conditioner.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

If you have that much panel space in your garage, I would leave the existing as-is and add in additional circuits to handle whatever you want. That would mean cutting out the existing drywall (it looks like a finished drywall in the garage from the picture), but drywall is cheaper and a DIY.

Add a pair of 40-amp GFIC breakers for two separate lines going to where you want to brew and be done with it. They are probably $100+ per, which sucks, but with electricity doing it right is usually expensive.

When you talk to the electrician, tell him that every time you say "electric kettle", he should think "welder/air compressor" or "hot water heater".

 

[processhead]

If you have that much panel space in your garage, I would leave the existing as-is and add in additional circuits to handle whatever you want. That would mean cutting out the existing drywall (it looks like a finished drywall in the garage from the picture), but drywall is cheaper and a DIY.

Add a pair of 40-amp GFIC breakers for two separate lines going to where you want to brew and be done with it. They are probably $100+ per, which sucks, but with electricity doing it right is usually expensive.

When you talk to the electrician, tell him that every time you say "electric kettle", he should think "welder/air compressor" or "hot water heater".

This is a good suggestion if fits within the limits of your budget and your ability to work around the finished walls in your garage.

 

[oujens]

Thanks guys. The key here is I would like to brew in my detached garage so trying to see what existing outlets I might be able to use. I would need probably a 15-20 ft run probably from the sub that sits next to the main. If we determine a new circuit would be best, I would just add it next to the panels. I would probably make a mobile system so I can store it in the detached garage. Obviously money is a consideration, but I understand to do it right it will cost something. I'm thinking a run will be pretty expensive.

Edit: the panels are in my main garage.

 

[triethylborane]

If we determine a new circuit would be best, I would just add it next to the panels. I would probably make a mobile system so I can store it in the detached garage.

A good solution. It isn't hard to make up an extension cord and is a lot easier than using the fish tape.