One problem I somehow haven't solved yet...

[Ashevillain]

The least fun part of brewing is cleaning, yet we all know it's important to maintain clean gear.

Over the past ~year i've made many changes to my cleaning process that has really improved my quality of life (aka minutes of my life not spent cleaning).

But the one thing I have not been able to get past is when using PBW, it leaves a residue which is pretty tough to fully remove. I've done plenty of research and maybe its just me being overzealous about removing it, because most people don't seem to have the same problem. But the standard rinse it for ~1min with hot water has definitely left significant residue on my gear.

Here is my process:

I have 5kegs 4buckets and a carboy that are frequently going through rotation.

I use relatively low concentrations of pbw: .5-1oz/gal

The kegs, when I don't just immediately rinse/sanitize, i use a keg/carboy washer with pbw and then a keg rinsing setup that runs hose water through the 2 diptubes via some disconnects, let this rinse ~10 mins then fill with sanitizer and hope its good. Sometimes ill check these a few hours later and notice the water hasn't cleared due to residue from the pbw... so i dump, rinse again ~5mins, fill with sanitizer again and wait to see if it clears. This is annoying as hell.

Carboys are even more of a pain, I normally just rinse/scrub/sanitize immediately after use instead of pbw. But every ~2 months I feel the need to thoroughly wash all my gear and get it as close to new as possible. I cant set and forget on rinsing carboys because I haven't made carboy a rinser yet.

Before I invest more time and money into automated carboy rinsing, I thought I should hear what more experienced people have to say about this.

Mainly for my carboys and kegs, I need to either change my process, my chemicals, or make some sort of bucket lid/stand that i can shove a hose with a cleaning wand in to rinse the pbw out of my carboys after washing,

I'd much prefer to just have to rinse less period to save water while still maintaining clean gear.

Helpipe:

 

[porterpounder]

Use Oxyclean Free. It dissolves easier than PBW, is cheaper, works just as well and I've never seen any residue issues unless over-soaking.

 

[Ashevillain]

I will go out and get some today, i'm in the process of trying to get all my gear like new so if oxy rinses away quicker/more thoroughly than pbw i'm all about it! PBW is kind of disappointing. It seems to be the standard but I've read threads where pro brewers have near irremovable deposits on their stainless from it not fully rinsing away over time. Once I tried using it on my kettle and had to rinse/scrub it like 5 times just to get it off, more cleaning as a result of the cleanser than the stuff its cleaning.

 

[popsicleian]

I do think Oxyclean is easier to rinse off, but in my experience it doesn't clean quite as well as PBW. I still use Oxy most of the time because it's cheaper and usually good enough. Every few cleans, or if something is really dirty, I'll use PBW instead.

 

[Ashevillain]

Does anyone have the same experience i've had with PBW or any cleaner? I'm trying to nail down whether i'm doing something wrong or am just having error of perception regarding the residue. I'm considering shaking with a sanitizer solution before rinsing to neutralize/cut through the clingy-ness; maybe that could cut down my rinse time to ~1min and speed things up. I'd rather just cut down and simplify the process.

 

[flars]

The residue could be forming because of a high level of CaCO3 in your water. Residue may be calcium precipitating out.

 

[orionol73]

The kegs, when I don't just immediately rinse/sanitize, i use a keg/carboy washer with pbw and then a keg rinsing setup that runs hose water through the 2 diptubes via some disconnects, let this rinse ~10 mins then fill with sanitizer and hope its good. Sometimes ill check these a few hours later and notice the water hasn't cleared due to residue from the pbw... so i dump, rinse again ~5mins, fill with sanitizer again and wait to see if it clears. This is annoying as hell.

What do you mean by waiting to see if the sanitizer clears? Is the keg full of sanitizer or have you dumped that out as well? What exactly is it that you are left with? undissolved bits of PBW or a film or spotting of some sort? I wonder if your water has something to do with it

Carboys are even more of a pain, I normally just rinse/scrub/sanitize immediately after use instead of pbw. But every ~2 months I feel the need to thoroughly wash all my gear and get it as close to new as possible. I cant set and forget on rinsing carboys because I haven't made carboy a rinser yet.

you said you had a keg/carboy washer but now it doesn't work for the carboy

I'd much prefer to just have to rinse less period to save water while still maintaining clean gear.

if you have washed your equipment, nothing is left after rinsing and then sanitize, you should be done

Helpipe:

 

[IslandLizard]

I've never seen what you're experiencing, but I haven't looked that close up either. It cleans, it rinses away, and is ready for sanitizer. It does help to use very hot water for it to work better/faster, and rinse out with at least warm water.

Is your water really hard, by any chance?

 

[Ashevillain]

The water should be relatively devoid of minerals in asheville according to some reports i've seen, i know that might not be 100% but the only time I have the issue is when using cleaner not rinsing/sanitizing.

Switching cleaners at this point is definitely warranted, if anyone has further advice please let me know.

When cleaning goes smoothly its the best, when it seems like your having to do more work rinsing than the cleaning takes... its pretty nerve-wracking.

 

[Ashevillain]

Once the keg is washed/rinsed i fill it with water and add sanitizer to store, this solution should be clear. Often times the solution is cloudy even after rinsing.

Other signs of residue was when i tried washing my kettle with pbw, i'd rinse and it would seem clean but upon drying there would be a white, textured film around the sides.

I have a washer that recirculates pbw solution. I haven't really viewed this as a rinser because it recircs. I could dump the pbw solution once the carboy is washed and recirc water, but there is still pbw so that doesn't really rinse it well. The goal is to remove all chemical cleaning products, but maybe i am paying too much attention to minute amounts that I shouldn't worry about. The only reason i have payed attention is because the residuals seemed significant.

 

[IslandLizard]

30% of PBW is Sodium Metasilicate, a substitute for TSP since it hit the sh!tlist here in the U.S. If left for long enough (days, weeks) it can stick to glass and probably other materials, like SS. A little acid in the rinse water helps to remove those deposits. Even a prolonged soak in Starsan should remove them.

What puzzles me is the speed those deposits form in your case. Do you have a current water mineral report for your domestic (tap) water? You could contact your water company, they know exactly what's in there. Just try to get to the right person.

I only use PBW when and where it's needed. My routine go to cleaner is washing soda (Na2CO3), the same component left over when "Oxiclean" has given up its ghost (O2).

 

[schematix]

Early on in my brewing career i used to store kegs with PBW and Star San in them. Big mistake. Years later they still have a permanent white film on them that i have not figured out how to remove. It does somewhat come off when rubbed, but that only works until i get to my elbow.

I've tried vinegar and it did nothing. I'm thinking of doing a caustic wash using a spray ball, followed by an acid wash. Shot in the dark though.