I'll look forward to hearing how this goes; I've got some cubes in bourbon as well earmarked for this recipe.
OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone
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I'll look forward to hearing how this goes; I've got some cubes in bourbon as well earmarked for this recipe.
Port is a fortified red wine. I really can't stand the stuff by itself, it is way to sweet, but I imagine it would go well in the stout because many times a RIS can have some port like qualities.
O, I am now much more excited. I have a HUGE sweet tooth and was trying to figure out a why to sweet this up a bit (I was leaning towards adding some lactose. Maybe, now I won't)
Anyone have a suggestion of a brand/dryness to buy? When it comes to wine, I am a super n00b.
Thanks,
josh
Sdragon980
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, Subscribed...
Odds are the port won't add much sweetness to the beer. The reason that port is sweet is that they add brandy to wine before it is done fermenting to raise the alcohol enough to kill the yeast. The small amount of port that goes into the beer will be diluted, with the lower alcohol the yeast will happily ferment the grape sugars.
You can boost the mash temp or use a less attenuative yeast if you want to leave it a bit sweeter. Then taste it when it is ready to bottle, make your decision then whether lactose is worthwhile.
Well brewed this today. Made one minor change only ~4.5-5# of DME. Some reason I was low and came out with 1.080. I didn't drain my bags (biab) as well as I normally do because the where HEAVY!!!!!
21# of grain + 5 gallons of water = my 35qt pot MAXXXXXXED!
My hop schedule went like this
1oz Magnum 75min
1oz Pearle 75min
1oz Fuggle 75min
1oz Centennial 15min
1oz Fuggle 0 min
Now to order up some oak chips and get them soaking in some port. I am pretty excited. This will be a little off the "clone" but I think it will an amazing stout.
Second, I took my grains which I had split in two different bags. Put one bag in a 5 gallon pot with 2 gallons of water and the second 3 gallon pot had 1 gallon of water in it. After Mash combined the two pots. Brought it to the boil, added the remaining 1-1.5# of DME. Added little water after the boil so it finished with 4 gallons. OG was 1.048. Pretty excited about that.
I let my friend who has brewed with me a couple times figure out what hops and the hop schedule on this one. Gave him the list out of How to Brew for descriptions of the hops and showed him a list which has everything I have in the freezer. Well it ended up hopped it to F***, which makes me excited.
4oz Nugget 75min
2oz Columbus 15min
2oz Fuggle 0 min
9 Gallons of beer brewed in one day. Awesome. This makes me want to upgrade to a keggle so I can do constant 10 gallon batches!!
How would I add the lactose at bottling? Boil some water with lactose then mix it into my bottle bucket?
Exactly.
Sweet, and since lactose is a non-fermentable I don't have to worry about bottle bombs (well at least with the lactose)
Learn something new every day. I have only added lactose in the last 10mins of the boil.
Thanks Oldsock!!
Keep in mind that a little bit of lactose really doesn't add a ton of sweetness. It'll take a *lot* of lactose to substantially sweeten a beer of this magnitude. Depending on your desired sweetness, at least.
TheBrewinator
Well-Known Member
Never had this beer before but I'm going to use the percentages and grains listed here to make a RIS. I've been wanting to make a big beer for special occasions and this sounds good. Going to start soaking 3 oz of medium toast American oak in port this weekend to give it a good 2 months before it hits the beer. Going to brew it in a couple weeks, should be 6 months old for my 30th and a bit over a year old for my brothers wedding. I'll post back with how it goes in a couple weeks when I get to brewing it.
Whenever I use lactose I always use 1# of it. What do you consider a lot 2#? 2# would be nuts. I don't think I would want it that sweet, but then again I dunno how sweet it would really become in this big of a beer.
hopplease said:
I typically use 1# as well, but in a brew this size, I'd bet you need closer to 2 to actually get any noticeable sweetness. Which would really change the texture, so I don't know that I'd recommend it. Fiddling with the mash temp would probably be the best plan. Or maybe using a less attenuative yeast...
Have just ordered my specialty grains and hops. Will be brewing this next weekend. At 60% efficiency to hit OG I'm coming up with 24lbs of base malt with the specialty grains. Did anyone else use this much grain? I'll be using a 10 gallon igloo mlt.
Looks about right, judging by the posts in the earlier sections of this thread. Ranges from ~17-20lbs base malts alone, depending on efficiency estimate and batch size. Isn't 24lbs coming close to the max on a 10 gallon MLT? I've got the same setup, but I think I'm going to sub in some extract for a few pounds just in case.
TheBrewinator
Well-Known Member
When I ran the numbers in beer smith for the one I'm brewing, I ended up with about 29 lbs total malt, 22 lbs of that being base malt. I planned for 65% eff because I am going to collect 10 gallons of wort and boil it down to 6 gallons just so I can get a somewhat effective sparge out of it. Your numbers seem right about where they should be.
I don't have access to carafa DH 3 or aromatic, so i was gonna sub munich for the aromatic. Im thinking i can just add extra chocolate for the carafa, or do you guys recommend doing a cold steep of black malt?
$20 to ship 1 lb of grain to Canada = no go.
Extra chocolate would be sufficient, I'd think. Might need more than a 1:1 ratio, but I'm guessing you figured that already. Not ideal, but it'll probably make a tasty beer, nontheless 
.
.
lewybrewing
Well-Known Member
Well, I just transferred KTG to secondary yesterday. I started at a 1.100 OG and after 7 days I am at 1.018 so that works out to 10.77% ABV. I created a huge starter with 2 viles of White labs WLP001.
Personally I think the color is a little light, almost a robust porter color. I am thinking that the lower efficiency might of absorbed some of the darker malts. Or I am just stupid. I can't guess the SRM's but I will compare it to a color chart at the next transfer.
My Med toast American Oak is sitting nicely in bourbon. We are at 3 weeks of soaking. The 1st 24 hours the wood absorbed a lot of the bourbon. I dumped the bourbon and filled it with new liquor.
Personally I think the color is a little light, almost a robust porter color. I am thinking that the lower efficiency might of absorbed some of the darker malts. Or I am just stupid. I can't guess the SRM's but I will compare it to a color chart at the next transfer.
My Med toast American Oak is sitting nicely in bourbon. We are at 3 weeks of soaking. The 1st 24 hours the wood absorbed a lot of the bourbon. I dumped the bourbon and filled it with new liquor.
kapbrew13 said:
No, I did all grain. Used 25lbs grain, including speciality grains, and the 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler was filled to the max. I'll post the beersmith file tomorrow. Great efficiency! My starter was right on time too. It had 3" krausen 2 hours after pitching yeast! The taste of the wort was heavenly. More to come tomorrow.
Well, pulled a sample tonight. 1.022 and an awesome taste. Great chocolate taste that comes in towards the end and stays in your mouth for a while.
I am happy. Completely dropped the theory about putting some lactose in it from my brain.
I need to make it out to get my port and get my oak chips soaking.
I am happy. Completely dropped the theory about putting some lactose in it from my brain.
I need to make it out to get my port and get my oak chips soaking.
Anyone who has tried theirs, how's the bitterness? It looks like by tinseth the bitterness should be around 65 IBUs, but if this recipe is converted to rager, the IBUs are over 100! How are you finding the balance as brewed?
I have never had Kate the Great and probably never will as I am on the West coast and don't get over to the other coast very often. How does the bitterness compare to the real deal, if anyone has had a chance to compare?
I have never had Kate the Great and probably never will as I am on the West coast and don't get over to the other coast very often. How does the bitterness compare to the real deal, if anyone has had a chance to compare?
I brewed this a few weeks ago and hit all the right numbers. I sampled some resently from the fermenter and it seemed slightly more bitter than the actual Kate which I was fortunate enough to smaple this year, but not off by all that much. I'm sitting right around 11.5% ABV and it doesn't taste hot at all.
lewybrewing
Well-Known Member
Mine is rocking at this point. Just did a taste sample and the bitterness is right on point in my opinion. But I wasn't really tasting for bitterness.
Tonight I am adding the soaked oak cubes. Today they have been in bourbon for 4 weeks.
Here is my blog about the recipe and here is the oak cubes post.
Tonight I am adding the soaked oak cubes. Today they have been in bourbon for 4 weeks.
Here is my blog about the recipe and here is the oak cubes post.
We pulled a sample off of our KTG that has been in secondary for over a month on the port soaked oak. The port is giving it a real nice flavor but it seems to have more alcohol heat since we initially tried it. I'm not worried about the bitterness, it seemed pretty smooth.
I put the recipe into Beer Smith and I need a bigger mash tun, but even with the right sized mash tun I get pre-boil volume ~6.5 gal from just the mash in volume. I've heard of doing no sparge but doesn't that really hurt your efficiency? I imagine my efficiency will be around 60-65%, what are other people seeing? I read that someone is going to run 10 gal and boil down to six, not a bad idea but I don't want to have to boil for 3 hours. Anyway thanks in advance.
lewybrewing
Well-Known Member
I put the recipe into Beer Smith and I need a bigger mash tun, but even with the right sized mash tun I get pre-boil volume ~6.5 gal from just the mash in volume. I've heard of doing no sparge but doesn't that really hurt your efficiency? I imagine my efficiency will be around 60-65%, what are other people seeing? I read that someone is going to run 10 gal and boil down to six, not a bad idea but I don't want to have to boil for 3 hours. Anyway thanks in advance.
What size mash and kettle do you have?
I used 10 gallon pots for the mash and the boil. My Mash tun was on the brink of overflowing with grain/water. My efficiency was very low because of this. Thus the 2 #'s of sugar added. I have to double check, but I think I was at 24# of grain on my KTG? I "think" I could of been at 18# of grain and ended up with the same OG reading due to a better efficiency.
I put the recipe into Beer Smith and I need a bigger mash tun, but even with the right sized mash tun I get pre-boil volume ~6.5 gal from just the mash in volume. I've heard of doing no sparge but doesn't that really hurt your efficiency? I imagine my efficiency will be around 60-65%, what are other people seeing? I read that someone is going to run 10 gal and boil down to six, not a bad idea but I don't want to have to boil for 3 hours. Anyway thanks in advance.
As I suggested earlier in this (impressively massive) thread to someone else, if you're working with something like a 10 gallon MLT--as I am--I would recommend subbing in a few pounds of extract for a bit of grain. In a beer this complex, you're really not missing out on anything by opting to swap one for the other if it's in the range of 5-10% anyway, and it'll make things way easier. As you can see from some earlier experiences, even brewers with enough space in the MLT for the full grain batch have ended up using a bit of DME to hit the right gravity.
From my perspective, I'd rather reduce the stress of watching the water level *just* hit the top of my cooler while I still have 5lbs of base malt to add. It'll still make great beer, right?
My 10 gallon MLT was filled to the top after adding all 25.62 pounds of grains. When I drained my MLT I had about 6 gallons in the boil kettle with OG 1.095. I sparged with 3 gallons and collected another 2 1/2 gallons of wort OG 1.072. I used my 7 1/2 gallon boil kettle and another 5 gal pot to boil the two, hop additions were the same, and combined the two after boil OG 1.110. Sparged with 4 more gallons and got 3 1/2 gallons OG 1.045 that I used for a smaller brew in my mr beer fermenter.
I have a 8.5 gal mash/lauter tun and a 7.5 gal boil kettle. I like the idea of using two boil kettles and then doing a small beer as well. I forgot to mention that I can probably borrow a larger mash/lauter tun. Its a Igloo Cube, not sure of actual dimensions but I think it will be big enough.
Ouch. Worst. Brewday. Ever.
I tried this one as a BIAB batch, and just about everything went wrong other than the bag ripping. I have never done anywhere near this much grain in one batch before, and it definitely does not work the way I normally do things.
Problem 1 was that my calculated volume fit into my mash tun nicely. I have a 15 gallon mash tun and do 7 gal batches. I calculated the water at 11.85 gallons, which should fit nicely. But when I started measuring out the grain, and it took my biggest bucket to hold the uncrushed grains, I knew I was going to have a problem. And sure enough, with the volume of grain, it wouldn't fit in the mash tun. This was easily fixed by getting out another vessel and splitting the mash. From then on, things went well. RIMS tube held temps perfectly, I was able to mash out, etc. THen I tried to lift the bag. It turns out, that 29.41 lbs of grain in a bag and soaking wet, weighs a LOT more than 29.41 lbs. And my equipment is quite high off the ground (top of the mash tun us about 5' up). I couldn't hold the bag for more than about 5 seconds before dropping it back into the mash. So the only thing I could do was haul it out as fast as I could with one big jerk and transfer it to another container that was lower so I could attempt to hold it up that way, as opposed to above my shoulder level. As you can imagine, wort was dripping out quite fast and it went EVERYWHERE. I was covered in wort (HOT wort, mind you!) as was the floor all around me. Great.
From then on things seemed great. I got tons more liquid out of the bag, got the boil going, added all the hops at the right places, and recirculated through my chiller to sanitize it. Then I added whirfloc and some pellet hops. I have a homemade hopstopper, and I have used it with pellets and whirlfloc before. but this was a disaster. When I started the chill, I got about 1/2" into the fermentor and then nothing more. THe homemade hop stopper was clogged, and try as I did to scrape, move it around etc, I couldn't get it to unclog. I even tried blowing backwards into it to see if there might be a chunk stuck in the dip tube. No dice.
So, I tried pouring the whole lot into the fermentor and making this my first no chill brew. Again, this is 100 lbs that has to be lifted up and gingerly poured into the fermentor through a strainer. Well, again, I got hot (this team REALLY hot) wort on everything, but this time was more careful and didn't get any on myself. And the strainer got plugged instantaneously. ULtimately I had to split the batch between 2 buckets, then go clean out my kettle, and pour the buckets back in, and finally I was able to get the stuff chilled.
So, I am hoping, as I have read, that hot side aeration is a myth, because I just poured 7 gallons of hot beer back and forth like separating an eggyolk from the white, with LOTS AND LOTS of sloshing around.
Also, my efficiency was quite low- normally I get 80%, but on this batch I only got 64%. I knew it would be low, but I calculated for 70%. Used 1 lb of light DME and 6 oz of brown sugar to make up for the low efficiency. I will have to try this again and hope it is not as miserable.
The only positive was I did this partigyle style, and the second batch went very smoothly.
I tried this one as a BIAB batch, and just about everything went wrong other than the bag ripping. I have never done anywhere near this much grain in one batch before, and it definitely does not work the way I normally do things.
Problem 1 was that my calculated volume fit into my mash tun nicely. I have a 15 gallon mash tun and do 7 gal batches. I calculated the water at 11.85 gallons, which should fit nicely. But when I started measuring out the grain, and it took my biggest bucket to hold the uncrushed grains, I knew I was going to have a problem. And sure enough, with the volume of grain, it wouldn't fit in the mash tun. This was easily fixed by getting out another vessel and splitting the mash. From then on, things went well. RIMS tube held temps perfectly, I was able to mash out, etc. THen I tried to lift the bag. It turns out, that 29.41 lbs of grain in a bag and soaking wet, weighs a LOT more than 29.41 lbs. And my equipment is quite high off the ground (top of the mash tun us about 5' up). I couldn't hold the bag for more than about 5 seconds before dropping it back into the mash. So the only thing I could do was haul it out as fast as I could with one big jerk and transfer it to another container that was lower so I could attempt to hold it up that way, as opposed to above my shoulder level. As you can imagine, wort was dripping out quite fast and it went EVERYWHERE. I was covered in wort (HOT wort, mind you!) as was the floor all around me. Great.
From then on things seemed great. I got tons more liquid out of the bag, got the boil going, added all the hops at the right places, and recirculated through my chiller to sanitize it. Then I added whirfloc and some pellet hops. I have a homemade hopstopper, and I have used it with pellets and whirlfloc before. but this was a disaster. When I started the chill, I got about 1/2" into the fermentor and then nothing more. THe homemade hop stopper was clogged, and try as I did to scrape, move it around etc, I couldn't get it to unclog. I even tried blowing backwards into it to see if there might be a chunk stuck in the dip tube. No dice.
So, I tried pouring the whole lot into the fermentor and making this my first no chill brew. Again, this is 100 lbs that has to be lifted up and gingerly poured into the fermentor through a strainer. Well, again, I got hot (this team REALLY hot) wort on everything, but this time was more careful and didn't get any on myself. And the strainer got plugged instantaneously. ULtimately I had to split the batch between 2 buckets, then go clean out my kettle, and pour the buckets back in, and finally I was able to get the stuff chilled.
So, I am hoping, as I have read, that hot side aeration is a myth, because I just poured 7 gallons of hot beer back and forth like separating an eggyolk from the white, with LOTS AND LOTS of sloshing around.
Also, my efficiency was quite low- normally I get 80%, but on this batch I only got 64%. I knew it would be low, but I calculated for 70%. Used 1 lb of light DME and 6 oz of brown sugar to make up for the low efficiency. I will have to try this again and hope it is not as miserable.
The only positive was I did this partigyle style, and the second batch went very smoothly.
My hat is certainly off to you, sir, for having the balls to try this beer BIAB-style . I would've thought a small crane would be required for this much grain. I suspect when I actually do this one, I'll end up subbing somewhere between 3-6lbs of LME in for some of the grain to compensate for my system limitations and (hopefully) prevent some of those issues.
Glad to see the parti-gyle style went well though; I was thinking of doing the same myself. What style are you making out of the second runnings?
EDIT: Also, I've done a few no-chill batches before, and never had a problem with hot-side aeration. I think you'll be just fine!
. I would've thought a small crane would be required for this much grain. I suspect when I actually do this one, I'll end up subbing somewhere between 3-6lbs of LME in for some of the grain to compensate for my system limitations and (hopefully) prevent some of those issues.Glad to see the parti-gyle style went well though; I was thinking of doing the same myself. What style are you making out of the second runnings?
EDIT: Also, I've done a few no-chill batches before, and never had a problem with hot-side aeration. I think you'll be just fine!
