Oat based LME / DME

[huckdavidson]

Not sure this is available in the states but it might be handy for hazy's and stouts, etc..

https://www.muntons.com/home_brewing/oat-malt-extract/
https://www.kegland.com.au/products/dried-hydrolysed-oat-extract-1kg-bag

 

[day_trippr]

Amazon carries the Muntons oat malt extract, otherwise I couldn't find it available at retail anywhere...

Cheers!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Is this a new product? I would be interested in trying out the DME version. Looking on Amazon I only saw the 1.5 kg cans (for $27). I have tried making some Hazy Pale/IPA style beers with a mix of Pils DME and Wheat DME and also with a partial mash. The Briess Wheat DME is a bit darker than I would expect.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have tried making some Hazy Pale/IPA style beers with a mix of Pils DME and Wheat DME and also with a partial mash. The Briess Wheat DME is a bit darker than I would expect.

How did those turn out?

Instead of buying/using those specialized cans or dried extract, I'd rather would do a partial mash with flaked wheat, rye, and/or oat, with an equal weight of barley malt (Pilsner or 2-row) added. Or perhaps even better, do a full cereal mash.

Alas, the mash does take an extra hour or so...

 

[CascadesBrewer]

How did those turn out?

So so. I tried to make a couple 1 gallon batches of single hop NEIPA-ish beer. Some hop astringency and oxidation were likely the biggest issue. I made a few batches of the Brave Noise Pale Ale (where I played around with a partial mash of malted wheat and flaked oats). The overall beer was good, but the Sabro dominated the flavors.

I like using extract for small batches and I think it would be useful to make some 1 gallon batches to play around with hop combos or yeasts. I think you could make a decent hazy with Pils DME + Wheat DME. Adding in Oat DME would be worth trying. LME tends to add a lot of color, that might not look great in a Hazy.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Williams Brewing has a couple of styles (extra light, dark) of Kegland DME.

 

[day_trippr]

But they do not carry oat malt extract...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I like using extract for small batches and I think it would be useful to make some 1 gallon batches to play around with hop combos or yeasts.

Brew a 4 or 5 gallon all-grain batch with (sparse) bittering hops, then split off into 1 gallon batches for several late hops and hopstand batches. Then dry hop each to your liking.

I often split 6 gallon batches at the end of the boil into 2 or 3 smaller ones that way, each with unique hops or hop combos.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

But they do not carry oat malt extract...

at this point in time that is true.

If you're aware of another american home brew store that carries any of the Kegland DME products, that store may also be interested in stocking dry oat malt extract (if there was sufficient interest).

 

[day_trippr]

I suspect "sufficient interest" in oat malt extract simply isn't there - it's not anything I had even considered in my entire brewing history, just never occurred to me as something to look for and it never occurred in any recipe I used. Kegland malt extracts, I've never seen that brand locally (though that's becoming increasingly irrelevant as retail outlets fade away) it was always Briess and Muntons. Morebeer.com - which must be Kegland's biggest fanboi in the USA by sales - don't carry any Kegland DME products either.

Anyway...I wonder if oat malt dry extract has any handling characteristics that might make it difficult to use. I don't recall ever seeing dry wheat malt extract that was actually 100% wheat malt - I think Briess blends in 35-40% barley malt...

Cheers!

 

[huckdavidson]

 

[huckdavidson]

Oat extract seems to be a relatively new addition to these product lines. Time will tell if they catch on and if others (Briess?) follow suit to develop and market their own oat extract products.

The actual makeup of the extracts should be listed in analysis sheets.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Have you watched his other videos? This one appears to be very, very solid.

aside: yes, he does add a can of Coopers to the fermenter cold. Many American-based LME providers offer guidance as to whether (or not) this is a good idea with their specific product.

 

[huckdavidson]

Haven't been able to find analysis sheets on these but from reading the descriptions:

The Kegland "Dried Hydrolysed Oat Extract" seems to be 100% oats which have been subjected to enzymatic breakdown.

The Muntons "Oat Malt Extract" indicates that it has barley and oats but not sure what percentage the makeup is.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I wonder if oat malt dry extract has any handling characteristics that might make it difficult to use.

In the video, he added it to cold water with a gentle stir (no clumps).

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Have you watched his other videos? This one appears to be very, very solid.

I just skimmed through this video. I mostly wanted to get to the end to see how dark the beer turned out...but it is a 19 minute video without any tasting section.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

for those who are relatively new to HomeBrewTalk, Briess has a lot of information on their DME/LME products at their web site.

I think Briess blends in 35-40% barley malt...

 

[day_trippr]

Memory still works!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I mostly wanted to get to the end to see how dark the beer turned out

With regard to color (and I couldn't find product information), a "screen capture" at 14:41 looks promising to me ...

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I suspect "sufficient interest" in oat malt extract simply isn't there

I think there would be a market, potentially for styles like Hazy IPA but also for Oatmeal Stouts. I have seen a number of extract oatmeal stout recipes that just call for steeping flaked oats. While this might add a bit of oaty flavors, it is not ideal.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

With regard to color (and I couldn't find product information), a "screen capture" at 14:41 looks promising ...

Hopefully. I have been surprised how much color the Briess Wheat DME adds. Below is a picture from some 1 gallon batches I did about a year ago to try and compare Briess Pils, Golden Light, Wheat and Pale Ale DME. The brown table and red background might not have been the best choice here...but the Wheat version was very close in color to the Pale Ale version. I am curious if the process to make "Dried Hydrolysed Oat Extract" is different than what is typically done to make extract.

 

[day_trippr]

It's so easy to use flaked oats if one wants oats in their neipa and doesn't have a mill set up for malted oats, I'd think the oat extract market would be pretty much consigned to dedicated extract brewers...

Cheers!

 

[huckdavidson]

Have you watched his other videos? This one appears to be very, very solid.

aside: yes, he does add a can of Coopers to the fermenter cold. Many American-based LME providers offer guidance as to whether (or not) this is a good idea with their specific product.

I've watched many of his videos. Seems like a genuine enough guy and has worked his way up in the home brewing scene. Waiting for the tasting of the beer made in this video.

Cold Coopers into the fermenter, not something I haven't done or wouldn't do again, doesn't seem to have any adverse side effects when mixed with a boiled and hopped DME solution or even just boiled water.

I would prefer to use the Kegland product over the Muntons, especially if it's 100% oats as it would give more control over the final recipe. Though I'm sure the Muntons would produce a fine beer also (kit and kilo or +LME/DME/Brewers Crystals). Maybe there's a way to use both in one recipe.

Flaked oats don't appear to be the equivalent of this hydrolized oat extract as this has been subject to enzymatic conversion yielding a sugar content in addition to proteins. Not sure if mashing flaked oats would even be the equivalent but maybe? Just steeping flaked oats probably not.

These people sell hydrolized oats in bulk in the States:

https://sweetadditions.com/ingredients/https://sweetadditions.com/product/avena-dex-40/

 

[day_trippr]

I have no idea what "hydrolyzed oat extract" actually means but flaked oats are somewhat sweet so the heating/steaming/rolling gelatinization process definitely transforms some amount of the starch to sugars. Still, they require mashing with malt that provides saccharification enzymes, so it's not a complete conversion process - because it doesn't need to be - it's going to be mashed, not simply dissolved in a pot of hot water...

Cheers!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have no idea what "hydrolyzed oat extract" actually means but flaked oats are somewhat sweet so the heating/steaming/rolling gelatinization process definitely transforms some amount of the starch to sugars.

I suspect most of that sweetness comes from enzymes in your mouth that can break down starches into sugars. Yeah, the oat extract would be of most use to extract brewers (like wheat extract is).

These people sell hydrolized oats in bulk in the States:

That is interesting. I wonder if KegLand is more repackaging a product that already exists for the baking industry.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Replying mostly for those new to the idea of managing color when designing extract based recipes.

In the IPA range, sugar (~0L) and brewers crystals (2L) can help reduce SRM. Brewers crystals may impart some haze, which would be OK in a hazy style.

Below is a picture from some 1 gallon batches I did about a year ago to try and compare Briess Pils, Golden Light, Wheat and Pale Ale DME.

Muntons Wheat DME may have a lower color than Briess.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've watched many of his videos. Seems like a genuine enough guy and has worked his way up in the home brewing scene. Waiting for the tasting of the beer made in this video.

Thanks!