NZ/AU DIPA - Heady style

[Ambleside]

Hello, I've been doing a lot of research to make my first DIPA and employ some new methods (FWH and Hopstand), just wanted some input. I'll list my Recipe, and number some questions throughout, so hopefully its easy to dissect.

I'm going for a DIPA with heady topper inspired techniques (not cloning, as I'm not using hop extract and I am using boil hops.) It is also being made using NZ and Australian hops exclusively.

I listed the FWH additions as 20 min, as I wanted to get a taste-perception idea of IBU.
OG 1.078
FG 1.012
IBU 113

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs Golden Promise (2.5 SRM) Grain 1 47.5 %
6 lbs Pearl (2.7 SRM) Grain 2 40.7 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.8 %
12.0 oz Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.1 %

2.0 pkg Vermont (The Yeast Bay` #) Yeast 21 -
2 vials in a starter for appropriate pitch rate

10.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 60.0 mins) Water Agent 5 -
No idea of amount, I am not overly familiar with my water, so I plan to use distilled for ALL boil and sparge water. Should gypsum be added to mash or boil or both, and how much? (based on distilled water)

1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 29.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 11.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 12.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Topaz [17.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 35.7 IBUs
FWH, not 20 min boil, used 20 min for IBU reference. Batch sparging twice.

1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 6.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 7.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 8.8 IBUs
Left out topaz as I was worried about high co-hum. of the hop in the boil. Being only 10 min, would this be okay to add in? Topaz is my resinous/dank hop whereas the others are more tropical fruit

1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Topaz [17.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
Flameout


1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Topaz [17.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
Set time to 0 min in beer smith, as I thought hop stand did not contribute perceivable IBU? How long, and at what temp should i hop stand for? Should temp be dropped artificially for duration (immersion chiller) or free fall for duration?

1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Topaz [17.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
Day 17 to 21

1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 26 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Pacifica [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 27 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Summer [6.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 28 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Topaz [17.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 29 0.0 IBUs
transfer to keg at day 21, carb with Waiting method. Dry hop for last 3 days before bottling part of batch with beer gun.

Other questions:

- I have a 9 gal kettle with side pickup tube. I have no luck whirl pooling for a trub cone, I assume because of the dip tube. With close to 1 pound of pellets (not including dry hops) am I OK to transfer all trub and wort to fermentor, since it will only be on the trub for about 3 weeks? Or does it need to be transferred to a secondary at the end of fermentation? I try to limit use of secondaries as I don't like the extra step and risk of contamination.

-Am I using too much hops in a 5 gal batch? should I lower the flameout and hop stand additions from 1 oz to .5 oz?

-Input on the hop stand in general as i mentioned above in the recipe, as It is my first time.

- Likely Most ImportantFermentation Temp. I am fermenting in a 66-67 ambient room. Is this safe to do the whole fermentation in (I've read people ranging all between 60 and 70 with this yeast) Or should I start it in an ice bath for the first 3-4 days?


Thank you for any input, this is my first go at a style I really love, so want it to be great! Cheers.

 

[Juno_Malone]

That is...a LOT of hops for 5 gallons. I love a hoppy beer just as much as the next guy, but 14.5oz in the boil and 8oz dry is pretty loco. Also, your 113 IBU is likely way too low. For estimating FWH IBU contributions, use the length of the boil as their addition time. Unless you're only doing a 20 minute boil, your calculations here are resulting in a massive underestimate of true IBUs.

 

[Ambleside]

I knew it looked like a lot (and could be) but I was going for the heady topper style. And for IBU, it's definitely understated, but I was under the impression FWH resulted in 20min boil addition IBU taste perception. Which is what I'm concerned about vs actual IBU.

But yes, could be too much still. Thanks for the input!

 

[mtnagel]

Why do 2 vials of yeast if you are making a starter? Just make a bigger starter or do 2 steps on 1 vial if you have to.

For the water, I'm no expert on using distilled water for brewing, but I would bet you'd want to add some of the other minerals so that you get a more rounded profile. If adding only gypsum, you will be only getting Ca and sulfate. Are you sure you can't use your water even if you have to dilute with distilled. Might want to ask in the brew science forum about only adding gypsum with distilled water.

I've only added the minerals to the mash, not in the boil. As for the amount to add, I'd need to know your water volumes. If you want to mess with water chemistry, you should do yourself a favor and download Bru'n Water. The new sheet is laid out in a more user friendly way. And if you are using distilled, it shouldn't be too difficult to use.

For hop stand, yes you want to drop the temp. I usually go between 160 and 170F. I've gone anywhere from 20-60 mins. If you can't do a true whirlpool, just drop the temp, add the hops, stir and then cover. I stir every 5-10 mins of the steep.

No clue why you'd want to start the fermentation in an ice bath, but don't Get it down to mid 60's and ferment it there or ramp it up to around 70 if you can.

Good luck.

 

[Ambleside]

Why do 2 vials of yeast if you are making a starter? Just make a bigger starter or do 2 steps on 1 vial if you have to.

For the water, I'm no expert on using distilled water for brewing, but I would bet you'd want to add some of the other minerals so that you get a more rounded profile. If adding only gypsum, you will be only getting Ca and sulfate. Are you sure you can't use your water even if you have to dilute with distilled. Might want to ask in the brew science forum about only adding gypsum with distilled water.

I've only added the minerals to the mash, not in the boil. As for the amount to add, I'd need to know your water volumes. If you want to mess with water chemistry, you should do yourself a favor and download Bru'n Water. The new sheet is laid out in a more user friendly way. And if you are using distilled, it shouldn't be too difficult to use.

For hop stand, yes you want to drop the temp. I usually go between 160 and 170F. I've gone anywhere from 20-60 mins. If you can't do a true whirlpool, just drop the temp, add the hops, stir and then cover. I stir every 5-10 mins of the steep.

No clue why you'd want to start the fermentation in an ice bath, but don't Get it down to mid 60's and ferment it there or ramp it up to around 70 if you can.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply! 2 vials since their at 50% viability, I've just got a growler and its a 1.5 litre starter with the 2 vials. I work in a different city all week so it's easier for me to just do a simple starter without stepping up.

I will look into the bru'n water. I don't know enough about messing with the ph in the mash, and read at one point that a little in the boil can help for ipa's, in a more simple fashion than in the mash.

Don't start in an ice bath? I got that from the Heady topper clone thread, about five pages back now. A few people suggested it so that it started cool then ramped up naturally in my ambient room after 3-4 days.

So your saying just cool to 60, pitch, and place in my ambient66-67 room for duration of fermentation?

Thanks for the detailed response! Cheers

 

[Ambleside]

Why do 2 vials of yeast if you are making a starter? Just make a bigger starter or do 2 steps on 1 vial if you have to.

For the water, I'm no expert on using distilled water for brewing, but I would bet you'd want to add some of the other minerals so that you get a more rounded profile. If adding only gypsum, you will be only getting Ca and sulfate. Are you sure you can't use your water even if you have to dilute with distilled. Might want to ask in the brew science forum about only adding gypsum with distilled water.

I've only added the minerals to the mash, not in the boil. As for the amount to add, I'd need to know your water volumes. If you want to mess with water chemistry, you should do yourself a favor and download Bru'n Water. The new sheet is laid out in a more user friendly way. And if you are using distilled, it shouldn't be too difficult to use.

For hop stand, yes you want to drop the temp. I usually go between 160 and 170F. I've gone anywhere from 20-60 mins. If you can't do a true whirlpool, just drop the temp, add the hops, stir and then cover. I stir every 5-10 mins of the steep.

No clue why you'd want to start the fermentation in an ice bath, but don't Get it down to mid 60's and ferment it there or ramp it up to around 70 if you can.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reply! 2 vials since their at 50% viability, I've just got a growler and its a 1.5 litre starter with the 2 vials. I work in a different city all week so it's easier for me to just do a simple starter without stepping up. Starter already made.

I will look into the bru'n water. I don't know enough about messing with the ph in the mash, and read at one point that a little in the boil can help for ipa's, in a more simple fashion than in the mash.

Don't start in an ice bath? I got that from the Heady topper clone thread, about five pages back now. A few people suggested it so that it started cool then ramped up naturally in my ambient room after 3-4 days.

So your saying just cool to 60, pitch, and place in my ambient66-67 room for duration of fermentation?

Thanks for the detailed response! Cheers

 

[mtnagel]

Makes sense on the yeast. It's costing you more, but do what works for you.

I think you can add the gypsum in the boil, but it also lowers the pH, which is a good thing for my tap water, so that's why I only ever add it to the mash.

Not sure I saw the info about the ice bath and I can't imagine that's a good thing assuming you are actually pitching in the 30's or 40's. The yeast will go dormant at that temp I believe. I've only ever used Conan at around 66-70F, so I can't really comment about using it outside of that range.

 

[Ambleside]

I see your point. With the ice bath it's really hard to say what temp it would be inside the fermentor. When u say you use Conan at 66-70, is that in the fermentor temp or ambient? If I was to just ferment in my room at 67, I see it going up to at least 71, which is on the high side I believe. Just worried about not getting the best out of the yeast character (won't ruin the beer, but really want to close to nailing this one

 

[Ambleside]

Actually, just did a little reading, could skip the ice and use the wet t shirt only. This is said to drop internal about 5 degrees. So taking into account my ambient, fermentation heat, and -5 for the t shirt, I'd be about 66 internal. This could be just about perfect for the first 4-5 days or so.

I think I'm going to order a thermowell for my brew bucket, as well as some other salts mentioned today, so I have them in time. Then do my calculations. What would be the other key salts to have on hand?

 

[bobbrews]

Do not FWH a DIPA loaded with a ton of hopstand and dry hops. You will not have the appropriate bitterness required to combat all of the juicy/fruity late hops. The result will be sweet, tropical hop juice with no apparent bitterness.

If you use enough HopShot at full rolling boil start, then you will not require any boil hops. This is the whole idea of Heady Topper and why the schedule works so well. Save all of those flavorful and aromatic hops for the hopstand and the dryhop. I would advise on 25-40% of your total hops by weight for the hopstand and 40-50% of your total hops by weight for the dryhop. The remaining balance should be used for bittering and middle additions, or better yet, just use HopShot.

I seriously recommend reading up on optimal water profiles for IIPAs, including more than just Calcium and Sulfate. You add minerals to both the mash and the sparge water or the boil. There are several calculators out there that will tell you how much depending on your water. Ideally, you want to keep Alkalinity in the negative, but hardness very high. Na and Mg will be on the low side. Cl in the middle. Ca a bit higher. And SO4 very high. Also, look into acid malt or lactic acid to adjust mash pH. You want it to hover around 5.4

I also recommend fermenting with Conan in the low 60s; 63F is perfect for the first week. Ramp up to 68 F after fermentation stalls. Remember, active fermentation can raise the temperature by roughly 8-10 degrees. Better to be on the low side than the high side to avoid fusel alcohols and spicy/clove/phenolic notes.

 

[Ambleside]

Do not FWH a DIPA loaded with a ton of hopstand and dry hops. You will not have the appropriate bitterness required to combat all of the juicy/fruity late hops. The result will be sweet, tropical hop juice with no apparent bitterness.



If you use enough HopShot at full rolling boil start, then you will not require any boil hops. This is the whole idea of Heady Topper and why the schedule works so well. Save all of those flavorful and aromatic hops for the hopstand and the dryhop. I would advise on 25-40% of your total hops by weight for the hopstand and 40-50% of your total hops by weight for the dryhop. The remaining balance should be used for bittering and middle additions, or better yet, just use HopShot.



I seriously recommend reading up on optimal water profiles for IIPAs, including more than just Calcium and Sulfate. You add minerals to both the mash and the sparge water or the boil. There are several calculators out there that will tell you how much depending on your water. Ideally, you want to keep Alkalinity in the negative, but hardness very high. Na and Mg will be on the low side. Cl in the middle. Ca a bit higher. And SO4 very high. Also, look into acid malt or lactic acid to adjust mash pH. You want it to hover around 5.4



I also recommend fermenting with Conan in the low 60s; 63F is perfect for the first week. Ramp up to 68 F after fermentation stalls. Remember, active fermentation can raise the temperature by roughly 8-10 degrees. Better to be on the low side than the high side to avoid fusel alcohols and spicy/clove/phenolic notes.

Cheers! I've got no hopshot, couldn't find it sourced to Canada.

Like I said, i guess this isn't true heady style, more just pointing to the hop stand and dry hopping parts. FWH was something I wanted to try to cut the harshness without hopshot. Could the "remaining hops" u mentioned be split in a FWH and bitter/middle additions? Or you reccomend no FWH period?

I just attained a water report and plugged it into Brewers friend. (Can post when I get to a computer). Looking like I'll need around 4g of gypsum and 1g of CaCl2 to my mash. Will also look into the other aspects you mentioned.


Also, an input on letting all the kettle (trub and all) drain to fermentor?

Thanks again to all, responses are detailed and appreciated.

 

[Hujo]

I've heard people say that FWH gives the equivalent of 20 min additions, and more aroma, etc.. I have NOT found this to be the case - no enhanced hop flavor or aroma, and the same bitterness, if not more, as a 60 min addition. I wouldn't use that much hops for FWH. If I hopstand for 30 minutes I enter the addition in BeerSmith as a 15 min whirlpool, which I have found gives me a decent IBU estimate. If I wanted to achieve a specific IBU value (which I don't), I'd just calculate from there and add the remaining at 60 or better yet 20 minutes for additional flavor.

 

[mtnagel]

I see your point. With the ice bath it's really hard to say what temp it would be inside the fermentor. When u say you use Conan at 66-70, is that in the fermentor temp or ambient? If I was to just ferment in my room at 67, I see it going up to at least 71, which is on the high side I believe. Just worried about not getting the best out of the yeast character (won't ruin the beer, but really want to close to nailing this one

I mean the wort temp. I have a fermentation chamber.

I add everything to my fermentor. Brulospher did an experiment about that. You should get it out.

If you really want the hop extract, looks like Yakima Valley ships to Canada (http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/articles.asp?ID=57). Of course you get hosed on shipping. I've been very pleased with their bulk hop extract. I just dose it into syringes. It's at least 50% cheaper than buying the pre filled hop shots.

 

[orangehero]

I knew it looked like a lot (and could be) but I was going for the heady topper style. And for IBU, it's definitely understated, but I was under the impression FWH resulted in 20min boil addition IBU taste perception. Which is what I'm concerned about vs actual IBU.

But yes, could be too much still. Thanks for the input!

Do not FWH a DIPA loaded with a ton of hopstand and dry hops. You will not have the appropriate bitterness required to combat all of the juicy/fruity late hops. The result will be sweet, tropical hop juice with no apparent bitterness.

I've heard people say that FWH gives the equivalent of 20 min additions, and more aroma, etc.. I have NOT found this to be the case - no enhanced hop flavor or aroma, and the same bitterness, if not more, as a 60 min addition. I wouldn't use that much hops for FWH. If I hopstand for 30 minutes I enter the addition in BeerSmith as a 15 min whirlpool, which I have found gives me a decent IBU estimate. If I wanted to achieve a specific IBU value (which I don't), I'd just calculate from there and add the remaining at 60 or better yet 20 minutes for additional flavor.

I don't know where you heard this information on bittering, but FWH provides about 10% more IBU's than hops added at the start of the boil length. The main benefit is in the perceived smoothness of the bittering, which appears to be only slightly less than a boil start addition.

https://byo.com/grains/item/2958-pre-boil-hopping

 

[Hujo]

It's been discussed among other places in various threads on this forum, I'm on the phone right now so it's a bit of a hassle to find it. I brought it up because the OP is using that as IBU reference, which I advise against. I also question the notion of a "smoother bitterness". What is that? Really? If it's smoother, IT'S LESS BITTER! A 60 min addition is a known and quantitative thing, FWH is not, because it will give different results depending on your system - how long it takes to achieve a boil, gravity of first runnings, PH, etc. If you want a "smoother bitterness" use less hops or more later in the boil.

 

[orangehero]

It's been discussed among other places in various threads on this forum, I'm on the phone right now so it's a bit of a hassle to find it. I brought it up because the OP is using that as IBU reference, which I advise against. I also question the notion of a "smoother bitterness". What is that? Really? If it's smoother, IT'S LESS BITTER! A 60 min addition is a known and quantitative thing, FWH is not, because it will give different results depending on your system - how long it takes to achieve a boil, gravity of first runnings, PH, etc. If you want a "smoother bitterness" use less hops or more later in the boil.

Sure what you're describing is an intuitive understanding of hops use, but that's not what the brewing scientists found. A 60 min hop addition is no more of a known and quantitive thing than FWH. Unless you're sending your beer out to get tested, it's all just a rough estimate.

Obviously your perception is different, but most recognize that bitterness does have a harsh to smooth component, it isn't just raw bitterness.

I don't really know about some random posts on the forum that you may have read, but here's some more reading:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/11/19/first-wort-hops-fwh-in-beer-revisited/

 

[Ambleside]

I'm past the basics of 60 minutes is more bitter than 20 minutes. That's why I'm using mainly low co-hum hops aswell, since that will lend to less of a "bite". Same for FWH. I was looking to experiment with the FWH as a way to add a less harsh bittering with that would contribute also to the taste perception as I've read multiple places that it is similiar to a 20min.

Keep it coming, stoked on all the input! Cheers

 

[Hujo]

Good points! I've read reports on higher IBUs with FWH, but I can't remember reading anything about smoothness. Do you have a source to what these brewing scientists found?

It's hard to to talk about subjective matters such as taste in a comparative way, but IME FWH has not resulted in smoother taste. If anything, I've on occasion found it to yield some astringency, which is often labeled as bitterness. As always, that could be a factor of a LOT of different things, not necessarily FWH.

When brewing IPAs with large late additions i doubt one would notice a difference between FWH and 60 min. It's also necessary to point out that there is more to bitterness than IBUs. Massive late additions and dry hopping will contribute bitternes, just not in the form of alpha acids isomerized. You are ofcourse right that tastes can be bitter in different ways, but with the complexity of flavor in beer i find it difficult to understand how you can pinpoint a smooth bitterness as a result of FWH. Maybe it's just balanced by other flavors, or less astringent? I don't want to start a semantic pissing contest, but "smooth bitterness" is a pet peeve of mine. Cheers!

 

[Hujo]

Edit: double post, sorry

 

[Hujo]

I'm past the basics of 60 minutes is more bitter than 20 minutes. That's why I'm using mainly low co-hum hops aswell, since that will lend to less of a "bite". Same for FWH. I was looking to experiment with the FWH as a way to add a less harsh bittering with that would contribute also to the taste perception as I've read multiple places that it is similiar to a 20min.

Keep it coming, stoked on all the input! Cheers

Yeah, you should definitely try it. I did, and then figured I'd just do an actual 20 min addition instead. More hops for the same IBUs equals more flavor. Well, different flavor anyway. To answer one of your questions though, and not just high-jack your thread, I'd definitely put that Topaz in at 10! I like boiled additions of dank hops.

 

[m00se]

I usually add my first dry hop 6days after pitching Conan in the FV. Whatever you do, I'd keep the 8oz double dry hop. I'm loving the ipa I just did with Conan and 8oz 2x dry hop.

 

[Ambleside]

I usually add my first dry hop 6days after pitching Conan in the FV. Whatever you do, I'd keep the 8oz double dry hop. I'm loving the ipa I just did with Conan and 8oz 2x dry hop.

Thanks! I'd definitely rather be on the over side than under side for the dryhop, even if it does have some diminishing returns after a point.



Can anyone comment on allowing all trub into the fermentor with this much hops?

 

[Ambleside]

I seriously recommend reading up on optimal water profiles for IIPAs, including more than just Calcium and Sulfate. You add minerals to both the mash and the sparge water or the boil. There are several calculators out there that will tell you how much depending on your water. Ideally, you want to keep Alkalinity in the negative, but hardness very high. Na and Mg will be on the low side. Cl in the middle. Ca a bit higher. And SO4 very high. Also, look into acid malt or lactic acid to adjust mash pH. You want it to hover around 5.4

I've spent all night messing with bru'n and brewers friend. I've got my water profile from the city report, but having trouble making additions as I'm not really sure all the effects of each. I've been adding X, changing Y, etc, but not sure what I'm doing. If anyone has an idea of a starting point with these numbers, it would be greatly appreciated. It won't be perfect as my first DIPA, but should be a starting point for the ones to follow when I have time to delve into water. I've gathered that gypsum still needs to be a big addition to get my SO4 between 200 and 300.

Here's my numbers:
Calcium Ca: 30
Magnesium Mg: 8
Sodium Na: 11
Total Alkalinity: 84 --> Bicarbonate HCO3: 102.5
Sulfate SO4: 31
Chloride Cl: 13
pH: 7.85
Total Hardness as CaCO3(ppm): 108

The numbers seem to check out, as I got a 0.06 cation/ion difference in Bru'n.

Once I get a starting point, I'll search the forums for how to add them (i.e. to HLT, mash, sparge, kettle etc) as I don't want to waste peoples time on those specifics.

 

[mtnagel]

That water should be fine for brewing an IPA. I'd use campden tablets to remove chlorine/chloramines. I'd also look at adding a portion of the SO4 through epsom salt since your sulfate is pretty low so if you add all gypsum, your Ca will get pushed up pretty high. It would probably be okay if you did all gypsum, but epsom salt is cheap and easily found at any drugstore.

 

[mtnagel]

I took a stab at what I would do. This definitely isn't the only way, but should give you a starting point.

 

[bobbrews]

FWH was something I wanted to try to cut the harshness without hopshot. Could the "remaining hops" u mentioned be split in a FWH and bitter/middle additions? Or you reccomend no FWH period?

No FWH period. If you're deadset on doing it, and if you have a ton of hops, then you might as well mash hop, FWH, and traditional bitter.... Go all out.

Also, an input on letting all the kettle (trub and all) drain to fermentor?

Remove as much trub as possible as to not let it take up space in the fermentor. For an IIPA, the amount of trub will be far greater due to all of the kettle hops used, especially the hopstand addition. By the time the hopstand is complete, the aromatic oils have done their job. No need to rack all of that hop matter to the carboy.

I don't know where you heard this information on bittering, but FWH provides about 10% more IBU's than hops added at the start of the boil length. The main benefit is in the perceived smoothness of the bittering, which appears to be only slightly less than a boil start addition.

Aware.

FWH is not for flavor, nor is it equivalent to a 20 minute addition. The process was developed by German brewers as a way to increase bittering utilization. When analyzed in a lab beers that that were FWHd contained higher IBUs and lower concentrations of flavoring/aromatic compounds than control beers with a traditional bittering addition. Where this idea came from that FWH adds hop flavor I'll never know. What you get is a different kind of bitterness without that hoppy bite.

The basic idea is that when the wort is transferred from the mash, it still contains some O2, which reacts with the oils in the FWH, creating non-volatile oxidation products which persist through the boil, into the finished beer. Palmer states, “Only low alpha finishing hops should be used for FWH, and the amount should be no less than 30% of the total amount of hops used in the boil. This FWH addition therefore should be taken from the hops intended for finishing additions.” All in all, the FWH technique is great for German Pilseners, not so much American IPAs.

Lastly, you can still brew smooth IPAs without resorting to FWH. Some more on that...
...Vigorous and violent boiling of wort helps coagulate unstable proteins. The harsh polyphenols in hops are very eagerly attracted to the non-coagulated protein which is present in the kettle during early boil. After the boil is complete, these proteins have binded with much of the polyphenols, and have become so heavy that they drop to form much of the trub you see in an IPA with a ton of kettle hops. Any polyphenol harshness sensed on the palate is likely due to: 1) transferring all of that trub to the primary, 2) poor hot break/insufficient rolling boil, 3) using far too many hops early in the boil (HopShot is an exception), and/or 4) boiling the hops for too long.

My suggestion is to allow the wort to boil for 15-30 minutes before even thinking about adding any hops. Tannins/polyphenols from the hops willl then be more effectively eliminated in the hot break. Once the hops are bound up with protein, there is much less surface area exposed, hence much less alpha acid to isomerize. The result is that you will have a smoother IPA with plenty of IBUs to combat the juicy late hops, but without any of that rough tannin harshness.

 

[Ambleside]

I took a stab at what I would do. This definitely isn't the only way, but should give you a starting point.

Thanks so much!

 

[Ambleside]

An update, using all the info I've gained.

-Going to revise my hop schedule tonight and post up the revision.
-Going to try to knock down my percieved IBU to about 90~.
-Going to add a 20min boil addition (taking hops from elsewhere)
-Going to add a 45 min Bittering addition (Planning a 75 min boil)
-I still think I'm going to do a FWH, I want to experiment (not sure the size or combo for this yet.

I'm working with a 6.5 bucket fermentor with some FermCap. I'd like to limit the trub/hops, but if its more of a space thing vs off flavour risk, I'm not too worried if its just space waste.

But I have started to make a last minute hop blocker idea, you can view it here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=524813

Cheers!

 

[Ambleside]

I took a stab at what I would do. This definitely isn't the only way, but should give you a starting point.

For gypsum, epsom salt, calcium chloride, and lactic acid, can I add the same weightings per gallon to my strike water for my mash AND the sparge water?

 

[mtnagel]

Yes, but not for the lactic. That needs to calculated separately.

 

[Ambleside]

Did the separate acid calculation, and tweaked it a little (lowered the sulphate slightly).

Brewed yesterday. Cut the hops down a little, still around 12-13 oz on brew day, can't remember.

Started boil with 6.5gal, ran start of wort from kettle thru splatter screens (worked great) until it was running without visible hop and break material, then let it drain freely until the end of the kettle which I dumped out since it was mostly hops and clogging my pickup tube.

Will post up results when it's kegged