Now I know what tannin extraction is (and its not good)!

[DrankGoodness]

couldn't find my digital thermometer and used my old dial type after a long hiatus in the brew drawer. I knew I should have calibrated it but I didn't.

Next brew I found my digital and checked the dial thermo against it and it was 20 degrees off! damnit....

Just tasted the first beer after 14 days in primary and the bitter aftertaste is definitely strong. Hopefully the 5 oz. of hops I just dumped in will help some. I had such high hopes for this IPA, now I just hope it will be drinkable.

 

[TheMadKing]

tannins should create astringency and a dry mouth feeling, not lingering bitterness from what I understand. And temperature should not affect tannin extraction, the alkalinity of your sparge water is much more likely to blame if that is indeed the problem.

 

[DrankGoodness]

hmm...
I've read that temp and ph are both factors and since i've never had this issue before it seems like sparge temp might be a significant factor.

 

[TheMadKing]

I won't argue that point, since I've never seen concrete evidence either way.

I have had lingering bitterness before though, and I think it was likely due to the age of my hops or possibly the sulfate levels in my water. I'm not a person that believes in many coincidences, so when I'm adding a bittering agent to something and it comes out too bitter, I automatically suspect a relationship.

I'd love to see some other folks' opinions here, I don't have any hard facts, just my experiences.

 

[normonster]

20 degrees!!! Holy sheep sharts. I gotta ask, up or down? Are you saying you mashed at like 170? What's the gravity at now?

 

[drainbamage]

I have heard that mashing too high can lead to tannin extraction, especially with a high percentage of darker grains. I don't think it's something that can age out.

 

[DrankGoodness]

20 degrees!!! Holy sheep sharts. I gotta ask, up or down? Are you saying you mashed at like 170? What's the gravity at now?

yup...mashed at 170. after 17 days it's only at 1.018...was shooting for 1.012.
normally it's a great recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=81478

 

[normonster]

Amazing really, that it's down that far, isn't it?

You have the start of a crazy experimental barrel aged imperial cataclysm there. Tweak that baby and let 'er ride!

And yeah, that recipe, if I'm not blind here, is from 2008, so if you're still making it then logic dictates I too should give that one a shot! Thanks for the link.

 

[RM-MN]

Tannin extraction depends on too high of a pH, not just too high of a temperature but you have to have both to extract the tannins. If it only depended on high temperatures, decoction brewing would lead to very tannic beer because a portion of the mash is removed, boiled, and then returned to the mash.

 

[theseeker4]

I have heard that mashing too high can lead to tannin extraction, especially with a high percentage of darker grains. I don't think it's something that can age out.

Darker grains tend to create a more acidic mash, so the darker the grains used, the LESS likely, not more, that you will extract tannins.

 

[hottpeper13]

I over shoot mashout temps by 5-8* often, but with a ph of 5.2-5.4 I get no tannin at all.

 

[didinho]

tannins should create astringency and a dry mouth feeling, not lingering bitterness from what I understand. And temperature should not affect tannin extraction, the alkalinity of your sparge water is much more likely to blame if that is indeed the problem.

both temperature and ph: in stouts I acidify sparge water at 6 ph or lower, and keep temperature of sparging below 75 Celsius
the result is roasty, but with zero astringency