Nottingham Yeast

[trubled]

From Lallemands website on Nottingham

http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_ale_yeast.pdf

Classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae.
-- A top fermenting yeast.
-- The typical analysis of the active dried strain:
-- Percent solids 93%–95%
-- Living yeast cells 􀀪 5 x 109 per gram of dry yeast
-- Wild yeast < 1 per 106 yeast cells (Lysine method)*
-- Bacteria < 1 per 106 yeast cells*

Finished product is released to the market only after passing a rigorous series of tests.
*According to ASBC and EBC methods of analysis.

It is possible that their assertion about wild yeast and their conclusions of rigorous series of tests are inaccurate.

 

[jfr1111]

I'd be curious too about what others are experiencing as far as off flavours. I will probably taste tomorrow if there's no krausen to determine if the batch is sour or vinegary. It sure smelled like it after only 24 hours... I probably won't bottle and risk infecting all my tubing and plastic equipment if it is that bad.

The S-05 hasn't really took off yet either: wimpy bubbles and no froth or kausen, even though I ramped the temperature to 20 Celcius in the brew room and threw a blanket on my carboy.

 

[goose1873]

pist......stop using notty yeast. its garbage...

 

[trubled]

I'd be curious too about what others are experiencing as far as off flavours. I will probably taste tomorrow if there's no krausen to determine if the batch is sour or vinegary. It sure smelled like it after only 24 hours... I probably won't bottle and risk infecting all my tubing and plastic equipment if it is that bad.

The S-05 hasn't really took off yet either: wimpy bubbles and no froth or kausen, even though I ramped the temperature to 20 Celcius in the brew room and threw a blanket on my carboy.

I have never smelled anything like it.
None of these are spot on (except for maybe the band aid) but here is how I would describe the infection.

medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery

Even after 12 hours I was getting inklings of this developing.

 

[jfr1111]

Tasted the wort: taste is the same as when yeast was pitched but there IS some kind of farmhouse, spicy aroma in the carboy and in the beer. I'm guessing that it sulfur or something like it, plus a lot of yeast smell. I did repitch so that is a given. OG hasn't budged, wich is worrying, but at least it probably isn't infected (yet).

No vinegar or sourness, altough this doesn't mean our good friends Lacto and Acetobacter aren't at work anyway. Way too soon to pass judgement, but I didn't have band-aids, plastic or rubber taste. Will probably rack to secondary as soon as fermentation stops (if it ever comes online) so the beer doesn't sit on the dead Notty needlessly.

 

[trubled]

did you repitch with same suspect Notty?

Hope things go well, keep us posted.

 

[jfr1111]

US-05. No krausen, but regular airlock activity (2-3 bubbles a minute) and visible activity at the top of the wort. The other brew wich is nearing bottlingtime was pitched with S-33 and I didn't get any krausen before 2 days in if my notes are correct and it tastes fine, so I'm not over worried.

I'm thinking about stocking S-04, US-05 and S-33 and maybe washing a good all around liquid yeast once I know my process is good.

 

[Hannable1975]

OK - Mine did take off - somewhere within the 24 hour span ( I was out so do not know when it strted showing airock activity ) but the airlock has a good to very active bubbling action.

However, I'm thinking I may not use the Nottingham in the future, until all these other issues seem to lesson. I keep some US 05 in the freezer, and just bottled my first recipe ( had US 05 as the yeast ) - and I'd rather stick with what I know works over what I hope works.

 

[jfr1111]

Good on you. Altough I can't be sure if it is the US-05 that is now forming a mini krausen or if it is the Notty, I will spring the 2$ more for something that isn't shrouded in controversy like Notty is right now. The pellets are still sitting, idle at the bottom of the carboy, so I'm guessing that the Safale came to the rescue.

I might give it another chance on a small 3 gallon batch and just cultivate the yeast from the cake if it does take off.

 

[akthor]

I made a batch of brandon o's graff 36hrs ago. I still don't have activity in my airlock whcih is weird for me I haven't had a beer or Apfelwein that didn't start within 12 hrs of pitching. Fermenter temp is about 62F I am wondering if that is too cool for Graff or should I just wait longer?

I used:
Nottinham Yeast
.5 lbs of Crystal 120L
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
2 lbs of DME
0.5 oz of hops

I don't know what the date was on the yeast but I guess I could have some of the bad stuff? What to do?

 

[jfr1111]

If there's no activity in the airlock, is there some in the bucket (I assume you're using a bucket since you go by airlock) ? Maybe try to fish out your packet from the trash and if it is from the bad lot batch, repitch using US-05. Or wait some more.

I know that many regard the 72 hours speech as gossip, but when everyone and their mother has a problem with a specific batch of yeast, there's so much preaching that can go on. Personally, I'd repitch since it's Notty, but I would wait if it were any other yeast.

Mabe try upping the temp to check if it does anything.

 

[Rover]

I have never smelled anything like it.
None of these are spot on (except for maybe the band aid) but here is how I would describe the infection.

medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery

Even after 12 hours I was getting inklings of this developing.

In all honesty, I think you're describing an infection or a batch that has been fermented at temps that are too high, which has nothing to do with the yeast pack.

I've had two batches of this Notty batch that was bad. It took 72 hours to take off with a well oxygenated wort. The off flavors that were associated with the batch were yeasty. That flavor dissipated over time. The last batch was consumed at one month of conditioning and was off for the two weeks that it took to drink. The other batch (BM's Centennial Blond) that I brewed with this bad lot, only took about five weeks+ to loose the flavor.

None of the flavors could be described as:
"medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery"

 

[akthor]

I will wait till th morning if there is still no activity I will bring the bucket upstairs and see if warmer temps do anything. If after being upstairs for 24hrs I still got nothing happening I will repitch with some US-05.

 

[trubled]

In all honesty, I think you're describing an infection or a batch that has been fermented at temps that are too high, which has nothing to do with the yeast pack.

I've had two batches of this Notty batch that was bad. It took 72 hours to take off with a well oxygenated wort. The off flavors that were associated with the batch were yeasty. That flavor dissipated over time. The last batch was consumed at one month of conditioning and was off for the two weeks that it took to drink. The other batch (BM's Centennial Blond) that I brewed with this bad lot, only took about five weeks+ to loose the flavor.

None of the flavors could be described as:
"medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery"

Fermentation temps were good and there doesnt seem to be a lot of people reporting the same off flavours so the source of the problem probably inst the packet. These off flavours are consistent with pernicious brett. So it is looking more likely that a struggling ferment got infected by brett early on allowing the yeast an opportunity to build a huge population in our brew space (which was seeing a fair bit of activity and in various stages) and despite sanitation measures still exists. It is possible/likely that since the initial infection every subsequent ferment that has been slow to take off has been infected by this ambient population.

 

[Rover]

Fermentation temps were good and there doesnt seem to be a lot of people reporting the same off flavours so the source of the problem probably inst the packet. These off flavours are consistent with pernicious brett. So it is looking more likely that a struggling ferment got infected by brett early on allowing the yeast an opportunity to build a huge population in our brew space (which was seeing a fair bit of activity and in various stages) and despite sanitation measures still exists. It is possible/likely that since the initial infection every subsequent ferment that has been slow to take off has been infected by this ambient population.

You're probably right,

That was the biggest risk with this long lag time, If nothing gets in during the long lag, than the off flavors seem to condition out. If some nasty has the opportunity to get a hold before the weak yeast, than....I don't even want to think about it

 

[SteveM]

Just in passing - I was in my LHBS today and was advised while I was browsing the yeasts that there was no Nottingham to be had, that it had all be recalled.

 

[camiller]

Just in passing - I was in my LHBS today and was advised while I was browsing the yeasts that there was no Nottingham to be had, that it had all be recalled.

I'll confirm that. I work part time at my LHBS and we received a letter from one of our wholesalers that informed us that Nottingham lot 1080961099V was being recalled. Oddly we haven't yet received anything from the two other wholesalers we use, which means that not every LHBS me be aware of this yet.

 

[Hannable1975]

I'll confirm that. I work part time at my LHBS and we received a letter from one of our wholesalers that informed us that Nottingham lot 1080961099V was being recalled. Oddly we haven't yet received anything from the two other wholesalers we use, which means that not every LHBS me be aware of this yet.

I just left a LHBS in a town I am working in, and while I was there bought two extract lits. The owner MADE A POINT to let me know that one of them had once contained Nottingham, but that after a recall, HE REMOVED ALL the Notty from his kits AND store - regardless of lot number. He said it was the least he could do - he had been brewing for years, and did not want to risk anyone else, especially someone new to brewing, getting a bad batch.

BTW: He said the replaced all the Notty with US-05. Where I am thats a $2.75 sachet in place of a $0.99 one. Awesome gesture.

Won hella respect from me - I'll drop in on this guy whenever I am in town. :rockin:

 

[wildwest450]

Violent and vigorous fermentation within 24 hours of rehydrating and pitching.

Something does not add up.

 

[akthor]

Some notty from the bad batch works fine some are slow and some don't work at all it seems.

 

[camiller]

Violent and vigorous fermentation within 24 hours of rehydrating and pitching.

Something does not add up.

Some notty from the bad batch works fine some are slow and some don't work at all it seems.

We are also leaving out other possible causes of the yeast being dead. Keep in mind that the earliest report of this batch having an issue that I can find was from March -- 7 months ago. Because of the widespread geographical dispersion of incidents I suspect that the yeast with problems was probably damaged in storage/transit somewhere between Danstar's packaging company (I think they outsource this) and the Homebrewer and not an overall bad batch. Maybe only the packets near the outside of a carton against the wall of the semi trailer on some leg of it's journey have issues? Maybe storage issues at a wholesaler which supplies a lot of different homebrew shops? It is really hard to say where the problem lies, only that a lot of people are having issues while many others are not.

 

[klemcke]

We have received a few inquiries regarding Nottingham batch # 1080961099V exp. date: 12/2011 which have lead us to comments on homebrew forums regarding fermentation problems. While our tests on this batch of yeast have shown normal fermentation performance and many of the comments on forums show others having normal performance with this batch, unfortunately we also note with serious concern the comments of brewers who have reported poor performance. Accordingly we feel we should stop the sale of this particular batch of yeast, given the concerns of homebrewers, as we work to investigate further.

We have asked distributors and homebrew retailers to return any yeast from this batch to us for replacement. If you have sachets from this batch of yeast please return them to us and we will replace them with a different batch. Please feel free to send the sachet(s) for replacement to:

Lallemand Inc.
Attn: Marie Coppet
6100 Royalmount
Montreal, QC, Canada
H4P 2R2


If you have any questions, please contact me at [email protected]. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and thank you for your understanding.


Keith Lemcke
Lalvin & Danstar Yeast

 

[Rover]

I just left a LHBS in a town I am working in, and while I was there bought two extract lits. The owner MADE A POINT to let me know that one of them had once contained Nottingham, but that after a recall, HE REMOVED ALL the Notty from his kits AND store - regardless of lot number. He said it was the least he could do - he had been brewing for years, and did not want to risk anyone else, especially someone new to brewing, getting a bad batch.

BTW: He said the replaced all the Notty with US-05. Where I am thats a $2.75 sachet in place of a $0.99 one. Awesome gesture.

Won hella respect from me - I'll drop in on this guy whenever I am in town. :rockin:

Hey Hannable,

What is the name of the LHBS you talked about? I am between Myrtle Beach and the mountains in NC all the time and I'd love to check out a HBS with an owner that has an attitude like that.

Drop a dime.

 

[Hannable1975]

Hey Hannable,

What is the name of the LHBS you talked about? I am between Myrtle Beach and the mountains in NC all the time and I'd love to check out a HBS with an owner that has an attitude like that.

Drop a dime.

Right up Hwy 17 from you - a wine shop and brew store named Noni Bacca. In Wilmington.

 

[stevedasleeve]

I contacted Marie several months ago after my first problem and have been in communication with her since. I have recently pitched a more current lot of Nottingham and it worked as usual - which is, for me, 80-85% attenuation, quick to start, and quite clean at low temps.

My local store is irritated and may no longer stock Nottingham because of this second recall. I still have not found a good substitute.

 

[Svinto]

I brewed a batch of Ed's House Pale ale yesterday and without seeing this thread I pitched a package of Nottingham, batch # 1087117102 exp 06-2011. I have no activity after 24 hours and reading this thread really gets me worried. My last batches havent been that good so I'm not in the mood of taking any chances with this one.

I have a package of S-05 at home, so I was thinking that I could pitch that right away, hoping that the nottingham will stay dormant? What will happen if the nottingham suddenly wakes up and decide to ferment anyway, would that result in even worse off-tastes? What do you guys think is the safest way of getting this batch to be good?

 

[lalnx]

pitch the 05 now.......
sooner the better, if you have no signs of fermentation. You should see something with notty in the first 24 hrs. If you don't pitch the 05, you will eventually have something going, and you won't like what it tastes like.

 

[Svinto]

Right, then I'll do that. Will I need to hydrate the s05 or can I sprinkle it down like I usually do.

 

[Rover]

Just sprinkle, It works for me every time

 

[rjvanden]

I think I had a bad batch too. Didn't foam up on rehydration, pitched anyways, but shouldn't have. Not much went right with my New Year's Day beer here, but I did find this thread, and after 27 hrs of nothing I sprinkled some US-05 on top. Probably will be going before I go to bed tonight (hopeful, but my normal experience with 05 is it only takes a couple hours)

So guess what - Another one that's never going to buy notty again.

 

[Espi]

I too brewed new years day... I hydrated and pitched Saturday around 6 pm. I am just now, 36 hours later starting to see some action. Slow but things are starting to happen.

Its been sitting at 65F and besides one other batch that took a touch long to start doing its thing. This one had/has me worried.

Every other batch I have used Nottingham with has shown activity quickly and always fermented quite violently.

Since I see activity now, although slow, I am going to let it run its course and see where it finishes.

I am currently drinking a Haus Pale that was slow to start but turned out good.

 

[Espi]

Oh, I am thinking of raising the Ferm temp a few degrees to see if that changes anything.

 

[MX1]

So, is the brewing world still having issue with the Notty, or did they get it figured out.

Been away for a while, but about to start back with a fire...

Tim

 

[kappclark]

Touch and go this weekend, with an amber ale kit and Notty was packaged .. figured I wld roll the dice...64 - 66 deg... 24 hours and it finally took...

Now I know I have some good Notty, which should be good for a few more cycles at least (and save me the colossal sum of $1.5), but I know it is good..next will be more Haus Ale + repitched Notty

 

[Hannable1975]

I no longer use it - period.

I have become a devoted US-05 user, else i spring for some Liquid in Smack Packs that I plan for a repitch onto cake and then a wash to save later. Building up a nice little yeast collection.

 

[stevedasleeve]

No problems for me that last 4 brews

 

[Anubis]

Damn! I just pitched last night to find no activity this afternoon. Found this thread and kicked myself.

 

[RavenChief]

So, is the brewing world still having issue with the Notty, or did they get it figured out.

Been away for a while, but about to start back with a fire...

Tim

good question....

 

[Boodlemania]

I've brewed two batches with some Notty that I'd bought back in early '10. Both took off after about 24 hours and rather nonchalantly as compared to what I was accustomed to with past Notty experience. Did not hydrate. Pitched both directly into 5G batch at 63F.

Going to check the SG of the 1st batch this weekend as it's been in primary for 2 weeks. Hopefully it's close to target.

 

[midfielder5]

i have this yeast- pitched into a beer that is going to the HBT competition in March. We'll see. It is still fermenting. no foaming during rehydration, etc.
edit-- yeast worked.