Nottingham Yeast recall

[EMPyre]

I am glad that they did the recall and everything, but I think I will stick with S-05 from here on out so that I dont have any question about yeast quality.

+1, bought some US-05 last night to repitch Sunday's brew, and a little more just to have one hand... Won't be picking up any Notty any time soon.

 

[klemcke]

Thanks for the frank comments on this forum, and to alerting us to the fermentation problems of this batch of Nottingham several weeks ago. Just a bit more on the cause of the problem in case some of you haven't seen this posted elsewhere.

Our subsequent investigations have shown that in the packaging process of Nottingham batch #1081140118V, the device used to imprint the lot number and expiration date caused tiny punctures in the sachet packaging material, allowing air to get into the package. Prolonged contact with air will affect the performance of the yeast, resulting in changes in fermentation performance over time. This has affected a minority of the yeast sachets in this batch but as a precaution we have decided to replace the entire batch of Nottingham sachets. This was an isolated incident and prior and subsequent batches were not affected. The printing device has been upgraded with a different type of printing ribbon to prevent a reoccurrence.

We again apologize to those who have been affected by this problem and hope you will continue to use Danstar yeast in the future.

Keith Lemcke
Danstar & Lalvin Yeast

 

[knightbeer39]

Thanks for taking the time to post that here. I just sent some recalled sachets in to you guys today. Hey, if you are making it right, then I don't know why people should complain. I will continue to use your product...

 

[EMPyre]

Keith, might want to check the sealing mechanism as well. Like I posted earlier, I had a sachet with at least 1/4 inch of the bottom 3 band seal completely missed. Its like the heating element never even touched the packaging material there...

 

[njnear76]

I kegged the blonde I made September 6th with Nottingham, although I wish I didn't. Over three weeks and the thing still was not clear. The batch had an apfelwein like flavor and was slightly sweet. Not enough sweetness to be disgusting, but enough to overpower the hop bitterness.

It might improve, but I'm really mythed at the slowness. There was lots of yeast reproduction as evidenced by the sediment in the carboy, but it seems like these yeast have a lot of trouble converting the sugars.

On a postive note, the recent batch I made with Nottingham took off like crazy.

 

[Homercidal]

I kegged the blonde I made September 6th with Nottingham, although I wish I didn't. Over three weeks and the thing still was not clear. The batch had an apfelwein like flavor and was slightly sweet. Not enough sweetness to be disgusting, but enough to overpower the hop bitterness.

It might improve, but I'm really mythed at the slowness. There was lots of yeast reproduction as evidenced by the sediment in the carboy, but it seems like these yeast have a lot of trouble converting the sugars.

On a postive note, the recent batch I made with Nottingham took off like crazy.

I made a batch of blonde this summer that never cleared. Had a funny flavor tha tmay have been too high initial ferm temps. Hard to tell. The clarity was a bit mystifying to me because I've brewed this recipe before and have had great clarity. I cannot think of any cause for it, even yeast. Strange that you experienced this as well. FYI - I do not know about the serial number because I had used the yeast weeks before hearing about the recall.

 

[njnear76]

I made a batch of blonde this summer that never cleared. Had a funny flavor tha tmay have been too high initial ferm temps. Hard to tell. The clarity was a bit mystifying to me because I've brewed this recipe before and have had great clarity. I cannot think of any cause for it, even yeast. Strange that you experienced this as well. FYI - I do not know about the serial number because I had used the yeast weeks before hearing about the recall.

Yeah. I don't know the Nottingham yeast batch number for my blond either. But, I do know that I fermented at 55-63F. Maybe I should throw in new yeast?

 

[Edcculus]

Our subsequent investigations have shown that in the packaging process of Nottingham batch #1081140118V, the device used to imprint the lot number and expiration date caused tiny punctures in the sachet packaging material, allowing air to get into the package.

The printing device has been upgraded with a different type of printing ribbon to prevent a reoccurrence.

Keith Lemcke
Danstar & Lalvin Yeast

Have you considered a non contact printing method. There are several one color variable data/sequential numbering inkjet heads available out there.

 

[yeoldebrewer]

Any manufacturer claiming they have never had glitches in their process is not being truthful. It looks like Danstar is addressing this one in a timely manner. IMHO, that's what counts.

 

[KopyKat]

I sent a dozen of this lot number on 9/3/09 back to:

Lallemand Inc.
Attn: Marie Coppet
6100 Royalmount
Montreal, QC, Canada
H4P 2R2

I have received no response to date. I sent an email to '[email protected]' on 9/20 to check up on what was happening with the return and never got an answer. I just sent an email to Steve to see if he can help. Hopefully I haven't just sent a dozen sachets of notty on a tour of Canada.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Maybe I posted this in the other notty thread, but folks, this is going to take 6 - 8 weeks minimum. First, it's going to Canada, which means it's going through customs. that along can delay shipments for a week or more. Possibly same issue coming back to us. And simply things like this take a while. They are not only dealing with us, but retailers as well. It's no small task.

 

[dcs]

I received an email reply from Lemcke yesterday.

It stated that they'll replace whatever sachets I returned, plus a few extra for good measure, but their replacement policy is limited to value of the yeast itself.

In other words, if their $3 product ruined your $45 beer, you'll get some replacement product from them if you kept the old packets and can return them, but other than that, tough luck.

Some of you guys can crow all you want about their great service, but your efforts are really nothing more than an indicator of your tolerance for poor customer care.

If I ever do receive a few dollars worth of replacment Notties sachets from these folks, there's no way I'll be using them to brew beer. Maybe I'll try a sourdough bread, or just mix 'em into a nice big starter to feed my septic tank.

Safale or Coopers for me.

BTW - who else makes dry yeast?

 

[Zaxenexaz]

I received an email reply from Lemcke yesterday.

It stated that they'll replace whatever sachets I returned, plus a few extra for good measure, but their replacement policy is limited to value of the yeast itself.

In other words, if their $3 product ruined your $45 beer, you'll get some replacement product from them if you kept the old packets and can return them, but other than that, tough luck.

Some of you guys can crow all you want about their great service, but your efforts are really nothing more than an indicator of your tolerance for poor customer care.

If I ever do receive a few dollars worth of replacment Notties sachets from these folks, there's no way I'll be using them to brew beer. Maybe I'll try a sourdough bread, or just mix 'em into a nice big starter to feed my septic tank.

Safale or Coopers for me.

BTW - who else makes dry yeast?

Yeah I feel the same way. I have some ruined beer from this and I didn't even keep the packets to send back. Even if their representative that posted here said 'we're sorry about all the trouble guys..' would have gone a long way with me. Maybe I'm just bitter that I make enough mistakes on my own that ruined beer caused by external forces is too much for me.

 

[KopyKat]

Maybe I posted this in the other notty thread, but folks, this is going to take 6 - 8 weeks minimum. First, it's going to Canada, which means it's going through customs. that along can delay shipments for a week or more. Possibly same issue coming back to us. And simply things like this take a while. They are not only dealing with us, but retailers as well. It's no small task.

Well, in that case I may have 2-4 weeks before I see anything. I have however expected a response. As far as I know customs, borders and a few hundred miles only takes seconds for an email.

Some of you guys can crow all you want about their great service, but your efforts are really nothing more than an indicator of your tolerance for poor customer care.

I haven't seen great service but I have made great beer with Nottingham and will continue to use it regularly. As to expecting them to replace the cost of your beer. The only companies that offer that are companies that are charging enough to cover that in the event they need to which means you are paying way too much for the product in the first place. Nottingham is one of the least expensive yeast around and that to me is worth the risk of having to replace the cost of a ruined beer myself. Especially since it is a top notch product.

 

[SteveM]

I seldom look at this sub-forum so I am reading this today for the first time. It confirms what I have wondered and heard about for a while.

I've been hearing about problems with Nottingham for maybe a year, and was experiencing them for several months until I stopped using it altogether. I've switched over to Safale 04 and 05, both of which are very nice. I give credit to Nottingham for posting here and trying to address the problem, but I also agree with those who say that slow starting is a significant issue. A friend who I was teaching the craft had a slow starting batch and got a minor infection. It could have been much worse but I suspected the yeast because the process was solid.

Safale, of course, has jumped into the breach to help home brewers everywhere by jacking up prices.

I will eventually go back to Nottingham - I used it for years and was generally satisfied - but I will be talking with my LHBS guy about this to see if he has sent back the affected stock. I don't want to take a chance until I know all the bad stuff is out of the system. Losing a $45 batch because of $2.00 worth of yeast is a bad bargain.

 

[kappclark]

I Just discovered this thread ... Last sat did a Classice English IPA, with Nottingham.

Nothing complicated...pitched at 70 deg...4 days to activity ! My first experience with any slowness with Nottingham...(the other batch I made used Safale-05 which took off in 4 hours ! )

OK - I will harvest the safale for my batch of EdWort's pale ale...

 

[ic3scrap3r]

My American Amber Ale took 5 days to start with Nottingham. (Well, I didn't take any readings, but there was zero airlock activity until 5 days.) I didn't know about the recall and after pitching the yeast, pitched the empty packet in the garbage. I can only assume that it was part of the recalled product.

I never opened the fermenter or anything, so hopefully the chances of infection are very low. We'll see.

 

[MBasile]

You people that are still having problems, are your packs from the recalled lot #?

 

[Edcculus]

My last order from BMW, I got 2 packs from this lot. I pitched one into a smoked porter before I knew about this. I didn't notice a lag, although it did finish a few points high. Nothing bad though.

I was intending to send back my second pack, but decided I didn't want to go through the trouble. I pitched it, properly rehydrated, into a batch of Graff. It kicked off within a few hours, even with the temp around 60F. I'm guessing its kind of hit and miss

 

[farmbrewernw]

I pitched yeast from this lot yesterday, and it's working it's magic this morning despite being fermented at the lower temp range, it does seem a bit slower than normal but it's still working.

 

[skybrew]

I also posted this in the other Notty thread:

For those looking for new batches that are working.

I pitched a package yesterday and in less than 12 hours I had activity. The Lot # is 1037117102 with an exp date of 06-2011, produced in Denmark.

Cheers

 

[mprice]

I also just pitched nottingham lot 1087117102 - exp 06-2011 into a batch of Edworts HPA and seems to be fermenting fine.
I got my nottingham from AHS last week. I read about the issues after I placed my order but I tried it anyway and it seems to be OK. Airlock was active in 15 hours at 64 degrees. I re-hydrated the yeast and proofed it for a half hour with some wort pefore pitching. I had a satchet of Safale US-05 on hand just in case the nottingham didnt show any signs of life, but there was some foam on top after I proofed it so I used it.

 

[MBasile]

I also just pitched nottingham lot 1087117102 - exp 06-2011 into a batch of Edworts HPA and seems to be fermenting fine.
I got my nottingham from AHS last week. I read about the issues after I placed my order but I tried it anyway and it seems to be OK. Airlock was active in 15 hours at 64 degrees. I re-hydrated the yeast and proofed it for a half hour with some wort pefore pitching. I had a satchet of Safale US-05 on hand just in case the nottingham didnt show any signs of life, but there was some foam on top after I proofed it so I used it.

My order coming tomorrow consists of the same thing, Notty with US-05 as backup

Glad to hear that the problem seems to have been fixed and AHS has the new lot.

 

[jmo88]

1080360088v this was a dud for me and I pitched 05 on it just a bit ago. I'm hoping that if the Notty does have any life in it, the 05 will eat the sugars before the notty decides to work and it'll just settle out before potentially affecting the flavor.

 

[smizak]

I also posted this in the other Notty thread:

For those looking for new batches that are working.

I pitched a package yesterday and in less than 12 hours I had activity. The Lot # is 1037117102 with an exp date of 06-2011, produced in Denmark.

Cheers

Excelent. I have this lot. My LHBS (Niagara Tradition) was all over this issue and returned a bad box Notty before they even put it on their shelves.

 

[Pivot]

I just got a pakcet of it today with the bad batch so beware, they are still out there

 

[MBasile]

I just got a pakcet of it today with the bad batch so beware, they are still out there

Who did you get it from? My pack from AHS was in the reportedly good batch.

 

[Pivot]

I just got it shipped from the Noble Grape in Halifax Nova Scotia

 

[Prionburger]

Well, I just bottled my Brown porter using the new denmark Nottingham sachet. It had an FG of .018 instead of the target .013. I fermented at an average of 64 degrees, which was a little low, but I'm not sure that would account for suspended fermentation.

Not sure what the problem was. Kinda weird.

 

[kappclark]

Do you think it is worth harvesting Notty from a slow fermenting batch ? Jus curious, cause I have 2 batches ready to keg.

Did 5 gal of ed's HPA, but repitched US-o5 .. nice activity w/in 4 hours/

 

[Prionburger]

I think harvesting would be too risky if anything weird happened in fermentation. A lag time is OK, but with all this Notty stuff happening, especially with my ruined batch, I would advise going to other yeasts for now.

 

[roylee]

Kappclark... A few weeks ago I bought ten nottinghams from the bad batch and, before learning of the recall, used a couple of them. Slow start, but once going worked ok and I followed up by dumping new wort on the yeast cake. Worked fine.... Both batches went to the expected FG and taste like they're supposed to. Had I known of the recall, though, I wouldn't have risked reusing the cake.

 

[permo]

I have gotten two of the bad yeast packs. Very slow start on them, repitched the first one with muntons (oh well) and pitched the second into a starter and nothing at all happened for 3 days so that was junk too. I sent both wrappers back to danstar and I hope they send me some good yeast in return! However, I am hearing such good things about S-04 and US-05 that I don't know if I will go notty again.

 

[Memorex88]

Well I've made 3 batches of Haus Pale Ale using US-05 and all 3 are just fantastic that I see no reason to switch back to Notty now.

 

[kappclark]

Thanks for comments abt re-pitching..

- I have a low risk tolerance, esp when so much time is put into getting the party ready for the yeast, but then nobody shows up !

I think I will stick with a winner, and that is currently s-04, which has been hard at work since Saturday afternoon on yet another batch of Ed's HPA (and it got RIGHT to work, after assessing the deliciouswort for abt 4 hours)

 

[PintOfBitter]

still no replacements? I sent 5 packs and haven't heard a word. switched to another brand...

 

[The Pol]

I dont know of a single person who has gotten a replacement, and I think most people have moved on to other brands that are reliable. No one wants to waste 6 hours of time and ingredients on a flimsy yeast.

 

[Pivot]

I have sent back 2 packets of the recall yeast and havent heard anything back yet either, and I live in Canada, so I should probably hear back alot sooner then some of you Yanks, but yeah still nothing here either. Strange, you would think they would want to try and get their good reputation back as quickly as possible, or maybe they just have wayyy to many packets to assess and deal with that some of us are just going to have to continue to wait before they get to ours.

On the flip side, I got a package of Notty the other day that is post-recall and it worked great. fermentation started within about 7 or 8 hours. Still am waiting on the final product and how it tastes but I have high hopes for this one. Im not completely giving up on them yet. Don't really want to buy anymore until I get my replacements though.

 

[bigolbigbelly]

Same here, sent back two packets of notty. Haven't gotten anything back. Mailed it to them on 9/8, so it will be two months .I even emailed them and asked them to check to see if they got my returned packets. Has been two weeks since I emailed them and have still not heard anything back from my email. Think I'm done with this company.

 

[The Pol]

It is sad, I used to rave about notty... but S-05 and S-04 are such damn good yeasts and so reliable. I am also a HUGE fan of the W-34/70. That stuff starts fast!