New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[isomerization]

Patience, young padawan. Sure, in theory fermentation could be complete in 3-4 days, and you could give it a few days to clean up diacetyl and such, but what's the rush?

Most any beer really needs 10-14 days in the fermentor, IMHO. Plus this style usually needs some time to condition and settle down a bit.

Yeah, you could probably drink something in 7 days, but it will probably be pretty green and not the best expression of your beer.

Clean up phase is a myth. Happens during active fermentation. Yeast that aren’t metabolically active aren’t cleaning up your mess!

10-14 days is close enough not to quibble, but if you aren’t doing something to the beer like dry hopping or a quick cold crash then move forward with packaging.

Looking at my Tilt data, even with my IPAs I am packaging by day 10-12 (with soft crash on day 6). I do reasonable sized starters (1-2 L), so it’s not like I’m pitching Herculean amounts of yeast.

 

[Dgallo]

Clean up phase is a myth. Happens during active fermentation. Yeast that aren’t metabolically active aren’t cleaning up your mess!.

I would have to respectfuly disagree. I’ve personally experienced some vdk at fg but 4 days later and no change in gravity but no more vdk even with a force test.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Final gravity plays one of the biggest roles in building recipes, and how those recipes are perceived by the drinker. Most people have had that prototypical cloying hazy that finished at 1020 and has zero boil additions. However if it's a layered approach that we are taking with the hops, all of a sudden your 40 ibu boil addition isn't percieved nearly as bitter with all that residual sugar finishing at 1020.
With that being said I prefer a higher mash temp 154-156f mainly to enhance body/mouthfeel, as the residual sugar sweetness is heavily offset by my boil additions/dh/water chem etc.

@Loud Brewing so from this last post - I've targeted 154-155 for mash temps on my last two brews (instead of the 152 I targeted with my first several brews) in order to build a better and relatively more full/juicy mouthfeel. Both of these home-brews are in fermenters right now getting ready to dry hop but the hydrometer readings on both at end of fermentation hit 1.014 (my previous beers targeting 152 mash temp all hit 1.010-1.011 like clockwork). One of these new ones used Voss Kviek and the other A24 Dry Hop....by gosh! the mouthfeel on these two are amazingly better imo. They have a more fuller/juicier mouthfeel that Ive been looking for but not overly sweet. A perfect balance for my personal preference. Can't wait to taste the final products on both of these. Thanks!

 

[pmaster]

I guess I can be a bit more patient then. Since it'll be my first time kegging I was looking forward to drinking carbonated neipa's faster!

Patience, young padawan. Sure, in theory fermentation could be complete in 3-4 days, and you could give it a few days to clean up diacetyl and such, but what's the rush?

Most any beer really needs 10-14 days in the fermentor, IMHO. Plus this style usually needs some time to condition and settle down a bit.

Yeah, you could probably drink something in 7 days, but it will probably be pretty green and not the best expression of your beer.

 

[isomerization]

I would have to respectfuly disagree. I’ve personally experienced some vdk at fg but 4 days later and no change in gravity but no more vdk even with a force test.

Something that’s happened to you once (and I’m assuming this was taste only, not a lab test), doesn’t really compel me to believe there is a “clean-up” phase.

Why is one of the recommendations for diacetyl removal to krausen? We all know there is plenty of yeast still in suspension even once beer is removed from the yeast cake. Shouldn’t these remaining yeast be able to handle the diacetyl removal?

I did a reasonable amount of literature searching to try and find something more conclusive, but couldn’t find what I was looking for. If anyone has a scientific article to share, I’m happy to revise my position!

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Clean up phase is a myth. Happens during active fermentation. Yeast that aren’t metabolically active aren’t cleaning up your mess!

We all know there is plenty of yeast still in suspension even once beer is removed from the yeast cake. Shouldn’t these remaining yeast be able to handle the diacetyl removal?

OK, because Im totally new to homebrewing, Ill respond simply because I don't know any better and wish to really learn a better answer to this question: "why do we need time for yeast to clean up". There is plenty of online information favoring the "diacetyl rest" but most all references I find are simply from online magazines such as BYO etc. For example: https://byo.com/article/brewing-science-controlling-diacetyl/

So here are my questions/comments/inquiries: HOW do yeast actually "clean up" diacetyl? Is this really known? From what Ive read, yeast produce the precursor to diacetyl, acetolactate, that "leaks out" from the yeast during active fermentation. The online readings Ive found then promote the "diacetyl rest" which means for 2-3 days after terminal gravity is reached the yeast will "scrub" or "clean-up" the diacetyl it produced. How? The reason why I ask "how" is because if the yeast ingest the diacetyl than that implies the yeast do need to be metabolically active to properly clean up the diacetyl. If this is true then Im not sure that the second quote from @isomerization is possible because it would appear that based on @isomerization first quote, yeast are only metabolically active during active fermentation. The two quotes seem contradictory to me. However, if yeast has the capacity to "clean-up" diacetyl simply by physically binding to it, then it would be possible that as long as yeast are in suspension that it can clean up diacetyl even after active fermentation and even if yeast isn't metabolically active. Then when the cold crash comes, it all drops out. Again, Im showing my lack of knowledge here lol. So my total noob question still remains: how does yeast "clean up" diacetyl?

@isomerization my comments here are by no means trying to be combative at all, but I am trying to understand these processes better myself especially if they could potentially influence my processes in the quest to make awesome sauce beer. Why do you think this is a myth? Is this simply a case of "old school" brewers spreading the good word on their processes? I really don't have a dog in the fight whether its a myth or not, but would rather base my decisions on science but unaware of any science behind it either way.

FWIW, I have subscribed to the diacetyl rest period to let the yeast "clean up" by waiting 2ish days before soft crashing simply because I'm: 1) paranoid of getting an off flavored beer 2) Im patient and not in a rush anyways so its "no harm no foul" for me and 3) because Ive only brewed 7 batches ever! lol.

Anyways, this is a good convo and hopefully I'll learn something either way. If diacetyl rest isn't necessary, then Id be happy to save 2-3 days.

 

[InspectorJon]

OK, because Im totally new to homebrewing, Ill respond simply because I don't know any better and wish to really learn a better answer to this question: "why do we need time for yeast to clean up". If diacetyl rest isn't necessary, then Id be happy to save 2-3 days.

There is an entire forum section on Fermentation and Yeast with lots of scientific thinking yeast "experts". That might be a better place to ask this question.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

There is an entire forum section on Fermentation and Yeast with lots of scientific thinking yeast "experts". That might be a better place to ask this question.

Yes, after reading through @isomerization and @Dgallo s comments on the "clean up" phase that yeast do after fermentation is done, I did look there as well and while lots do recommend the diacetyl rest (there are lots of threads on this topic there in that forum - and searching is endless with over 105 results) and Ive yet to find exact answers to my questions existing in those threads. I did find though that most appear to favor it in those threads. Most of those threads were not about "should I do the diacetyl rest" but "when should I do it". I only responded here based on the convos before my post. If you are aware of a thread over there that goes into the logistics and science though please either post here or just pm me the link as searching in that forum (or any in HBT) is sometimes difficult without spending hours on end going through all the results. Cheers!

 

[Hannabrew]

Personally I think Iso and DGallo are both right, it's merely semantics. Clean up phase simply means letting fermentation actually finish. Just because gravity doesn't change by our measurements doesn't mean there isn't some level of fermentation happening and the tail end of it is where much of the cleanup is done. I've definitely been burned by crashing beer too early even though the readings hadn't moved in a couple days.

Your taste buds are your best tool for determining when fermentation is complete (well, that plus a FFT)

 

[isomerization]

@Noob_Brewer I found this paper, written by @suregork (maybe he can chime in) on diacetyl in beer:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.84

It seems the mechanism’s for the how part are not totally understood.

“The process of diacetyl reduction by yeast is not as well understood as the process of formation, but is dependent on factors such as physiological condition, cell membrane composition, temperature and pH. The process of diacetyl removal is typically rate‐limited by the reaction rate for the spontaneous decarboxylation of α‐acetolactate to diacetyl.”

Regarding the two quotes, my question was saying the same thing, why isn’t diacetyl cleaned up?

Finally, my understanding of a diacetyl rest is that you bump the temp up while fermentation is still going (say 3/4 of the way to completion), not after activity has stopped.

 

[Hannabrew]

I am really interested in taking my beer to the next level. I’m basically building my water up from distilled and haven’t paid attention to any ph adjustments other than in my mash.

Do you guys who adjust your ph post boil feel it really made a huge impact? Seems like I got some learning to do!

A KO ph drop will help with the following

1) Lowers chance of contamination
2) Shorter lag time
3) Reduces astringency in WP and DH additions
4) Lower final pH which usually equals crisper finish

Calculating them can be challenging however. In my experience I start with a mL or 2 of 85% phosphoric around the 10 minute mark and measure and adjust until I hit 5.1 (coming from 5.4-5.5 in the boil).

 

[Frieds]

This is my latest attempt. I’m in love with the colour. This is also the first hazy I’ve made without Citra that I’ve actually been completely happy with.

 

[jturman35]

A KO ph drop will help with the following

1) Lowers chance of contamination
2) Shorter lag time
3) Reduces astringency in WP and DH additions
4) Lower final pH which usually equals crisper finish

Calculating them can be challenging however. In my experience I start with a mL or 2 of 85% phosphoric around the 10 minute mark and measure and adjust until I hit 5.1 (coming from 5.4-5.5 in the boil).

Thanks! I’m going to give this a whirl on the next batch.

 

[rmeskill]

Just cold-crashed mine brewed from the recipe in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-165#post-8299060
Shuffled the hops around a bit, though-went with Amarillo/Citra in the boil, then Mosaic/Nelson Sauvin in the whirlpool and first dry hop then all Mosaic in the final dry hop. Just had an extra 100g/3oz of Nelson Sauvin and thought it might be an interesting addition. So far it has given it a bit of that pineapple sharpness/astringency, but I'll bottle today and see how it pans out and check back.

 

[beervoid]

@Noob_Brewer I found this paper, written by @suregork (maybe he can chime in) on diacetyl in beer:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.84

It seems the mechanism’s for the how part are not totally understood.

“The process of diacetyl reduction by yeast is not as well understood as the process of formation, but is dependent on factors such as physiological condition, cell membrane composition, temperature and pH. The process of diacetyl removal is typically rate‐limited by the reaction rate for the spontaneous decarboxylation of α‐acetolactate to diacetyl.”

Regarding the two quotes, my question was saying the same thing, why isn’t diacetyl cleaned up?

Finally, my understanding of a diacetyl rest is that you bump the temp up while fermentation is still going (say 3/4 of the way to completion), not after activity has stopped.

Ales def clean their diacetyl up fast at high temps but if hop creep occurs and you dont give your beer ample time you can run into diacetyl problems.

 

[Hannabrew]

This is my latest attempt. I’m in love with the colour. This is also the first hazy I’ve made without Citra that I’ve actually been completely happy with. View attachment 670332

That is a nice color. Needs some head though!

What's the grist?

 

[Frieds]

That is a nice color. Needs some head though!

What's the grist?

 

[SRJHops]

That is a nice color. Needs some head though!

What's the grist?

For some reason this style often seems to kill foam/head retention -- is it the oats? I can't tell you how many commercial versions I've had that had zero head retention. It costs more to add some carafoam, flaked barley, or (more?) wheat malt. But it's certainly possible to have some great head retention with this style.

Looks like that recipe had carafoam and wheat malt, so my bet is on the large amount of oats. Maybe dial that down and/or add some flaked barley?

 

[BeerFst]

For some reason this style often seems to kill foam/head retention -- is it the oats? I can't tell you how many commercial versions I've had that had zero head retention. It costs more to add some carafoam, flaked barley, or (more?) wheat malt. But it's certainly possible to have some great head retention with this style.

Looks like that recipe had carafoam and wheat malt, so my bet is on the large amount of oats. Maybe dial that down and/or add some flaked barley?

the 50% oat beer i just did (6.5 lbs 2 row, 4lbs oat malt, 2lbs flaked oats, .5lb GNO, 4.5G batch) has pretty great head retention, and very nice lacing (not shown). I'm thinking its the GNO. My previous NEIPA was wheat and oat malt (nothing flaked) and just didnt have the same effect. I read on beer and brewing that polyphenols also help alot. this beer as 7oz of Galaxy in the dry hop, and we all know how much poly Galaxy has, so I'm wondering if that played a factor. I had also mashed at 154, another point in the quote below

"The polyphenols in hops are actually critical to retaining foam bubbles, so go ahead and pile on the hops if it is appropriate to the style you are brewing. Brewing techniques also come into play. For example, choosing a higher mash temperature, such as something in the 154–158°F (68–70°C) range, will result in longer dextrin chains in the finished beer and lower attenuation during fermentation, which will enhance the head retention." https://beerandbrewing.com/ask-the-experts-improving-head-retention-for-your-beer/

 

[aaronm13]

Thinking ahead to a future brew and would like advice on hop combinations. Was at a beer festival 2 weeks ago and had some incredible Trillium and Other Half Triple IPAs and also a collaboration between the two and honestly its one of the smoothest beers I've ever tasted and zero alcohol for an 11% beer. So this has inspired me to brew a TIPA.

I brew on a Grainfather so that's going to be a challenge volume wise so will have to do a reiterated mash. Anyway, onto the hops. Trying to get a handle on combinations and amounts. Listening to that Hop Butcher podcast that was posted a while ago brought up something seriously interesting about basing hop volume on the hops total oil composition so I started looking at hop oil on hopslist.com and starts making sense.

Firstly I'm thinking of going for Mosaic, Simcoe and El Dorado. Has anyone used this combination before? Is it a good choice? Trying to use some different hops this time for a change, also have half a pound of Medusa and half pound of Ekuanot that I would like to use sometime so open to substitutes.

Back to my 3 choices going off the oil composition
Mosaic = 1-1.5ml/ 100g
Simcoe = 2-2.5ml/ 100g
El Dorado = 2.5 - 3.3ml/ 100g

So to get a nice balance I'm thinking a 3:2:1 Mosaic: Simcoe: El Dorado. As El Dorado has the highest oil composition I'm thinking this should be the lowest amount and Mosaic has the lowest oils so should use the most. Am I over thinking this and totally missing the point made in that podcaast? Still not comfortable creating my own recipes and when I do the hops are usually very unbalanced. Almost always go 1:1 and doesnt always work.

Never brewed a TIPA before so should I shoot for a higher IBU in this style? usually aim for 40-45 IBU in Beersmith when the ABV is around 6-8%. Sorry for the really long post by the way.

 

[Dgallo]

Thinking ahead to a future brew and would like advice on hop combinations. Was at a beer festival 2 weeks ago and had some incredible Trillium and Other Half Triple IPAs and also a collaboration between the two and honestly its one of the smoothest beers I've ever tasted and zero alcohol for an 11% beer. So this has inspired me to brew a TIPA.

I brew on a Grainfather so that's going to be a challenge volume wise so will have to do a reiterated mash. Anyway, onto the hops. Trying to get a handle on combinations and amounts. Listening to that Hop Butcher podcast that was posted a while ago brought up something seriously interesting about basing hop volume on the hops total oil composition so I started looking at hop oil on hopslist.com and starts making sense.

Firstly I'm thinking of going for Mosaic, Simcoe and El Dorado. Has anyone used this combination before? Is it a good choice? Trying to use some different hops this time for a change, also have half a pound of Medusa and half pound of Ekuanot that I would like to use sometime so open to substitutes.

Back to my 3 choices going off the oil composition
Mosaic = 1-1.5ml/ 100g
Simcoe = 2-2.5ml/ 100g
El Dorado = 2.5 - 3.3ml/ 100g

So to get a nice balance I'm thinking a 3:2:1 Mosaic: Simcoe: El Dorado. As El Dorado has the highest oil composition I'm thinking this should be the lowest amount and Mosaic has the lowest oils so should use the most. Am I over thinking this and totally missing the point made in that podcaast? Still not comfortable creating my own recipes and when I do the hops are usually very unbalanced. Almost always go 1:1 and doesnt always work.

Never brewed a TIPA before so should I shoot for a higher IBU in this style? usually aim for 40-45 IBU in Beersmith when the ABV is around 6-8%. Sorry for the really long post by the way.

Absolutely you need to up ibus. I targeted 80 in my last triple and it drank like 30-40 ibus in a single.

Something that might help you is, I degassed the Dream Lab collaboration between OH and EQ and it finished 1.020 which was a non lactose triple from them at 10.5%. I targeted that fg by using some dextrose and hit 1.018. Seemed to work well

 

[aaronm13]

Absolutely you need to up ibus. I targeted 80 in my last triple and it drank like 30-40 ibus in a single.

Something that might help you is, I degassed the Dream Lab collaboration between OH and EQ and it finished 1.020 which was a non lactose triple from them at 10.5%. I targeted that fg by using some dextrose and hit 1.018. Seemed to work well

Thanks Dgallo, had a feeling IBUs would need to be upped. Still at the design stage, a bit of thought will go into this one. I usually aim for a finish of around 1.020 so that will work. Going to use Omega DIPA which shouldn't have any problem. What percentage of the grain bill would Dextrose be? Haven't used it before but will be using bit this weekend in a double NEIPA to get the grain bill down. Any thoughts on the hop combination, have you used those 3 together before?

 

[nebulabrewing]

My latest NEIPA.

5.9%
60IBU
White Labs London Fog Ale Yeast

Golden Promise
White Wheat
Flaked Oats
Honey Malt

Citra
Galaxy
Azacca

Starting to carb one week in. Discovered my inkbird calibration is off. Mashed low at 148. Tasting great thus far!

 

[SRJHops]

the 50% oat beer i just did (6.5 lbs 2 row, 4lbs oat malt, 2lbs flaked oats, .5lb GNO, 4.5G batch) has pretty great head retention, and very nice lacing (not shown). I'm thinking its the GNO. My previous NEIPA was wheat and oat malt (nothing flaked) and just didnt have the same effect. I read on beer and brewing that polyphenols also help alot. this beer as 7oz of Galaxy in the dry hop, and we all know how much poly Galaxy has, so I'm wondering if that played a factor. I had also mashed at 154, another point in the quote belowView attachment 670353

"The polyphenols in hops are actually critical to retaining foam bubbles, so go ahead and pile on the hops if it is appropriate to the style you are brewing. Brewing techniques also come into play. For example, choosing a higher mash temperature, such as something in the 154–158°F (68–70°C) range, will result in longer dextrin chains in the finished beer and lower attenuation during fermentation, which will enhance the head retention." https://beerandbrewing.com/ask-the-experts-improving-head-retention-for-your-beer/

GNO being the oats, right? (I think GNO is a crystal malt?) But yeah, seems like flaked oats cause a lot of trouble... I switched to malted oats and my beers have plenty of foam and never drop clear.

That's very interesting - the part about mash temps. I don't think I've heard that before - that higher temps can help with head retention. I've been mashing around 156 and finishing at 1.020 or so. I figured it was the wheat malt, flaked barley, and carafoam that was doing the trick for the great head retention I am getting, but maybe it was really the mash temp?!

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks Dgallo, had a feeling IBUs would need to be upped. Still at the design stage, a bit of thought will go into this one. I usually aim for a finish of around 1.020 so that will work. Going to use Omega DIPA which shouldn't have any problem. What percentage of the grain bill would Dextrose be? Haven't used it before but will be using bit this weekend in a double NEIPA to get the grain bill down. Any thoughts on the hop combination, have you used those 3 together before?

I personally hate el dorado, so you m def bias towards it but I love simcoe mosaic combo. Simcoe is mosaic’s dad so they work very good together.

I don’t have my notes in front of me but if I remember correctly it was 23 lbs of grain and .75lbs of dextrose. My efficiency drops to close to 65% in big beers, so it was roughly 3%

 

[BeerFst]

GNO being the oats, right? (I think GNO is a crystal malt?) But yeah, seems like flaked oats cause a lot of trouble... I switched to malted oats and my beers have plenty of foam and never drop clear.

That's very interesting - the part about mash temps. I don't think I've heard that before - that higher temps can help with head retention. I've been mashing around 156 and finishing at 1.020 or so. I figured it was the wheat malt, flaked barley, and carafoam that was doing the trick for the great head retention I am getting, but maybe it was really the mash temp?!

GNO - Golden Naked Oats, so yeah. They are a crystal malt, but they don't taste that way, they arent super sweet, i dont really think they added any sweetness actually. I would be very wary of adding 8 oz of C10 or C15, definitely not Honey Malt. My previous batches have topped out at 4 oz of any one of those.

I also just checked the simpsons page, and they noted "It also helps produce a creamy, robust head". https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/sim-golden-naked-oats-25kg

Even before i switched to malted i never seemed to have a problem with beers dropping clear for whatever reason. previous batches were mostly white wheat malt driven though, which a smaller amount of flaked. That batch that was no flaked at all did get clearer over the 4 months i had it, but was still pretty hazy. (off topic, but it also got exposed to air due to a leaky post, and ended up oxidized but only in color, the aroma stayed pretty good and i never picked up the cardboard).

This particular beer stalled and also finished at 1.02 (1.015 target), and 5.5 ABV (6.3 target). I'd like to try this recipe a little bit bigger to get a body boost from the extra ABV (6.5+). I'd also be interested in doing a version with malted/flaked wheat in the same ratios. the carafoam is a source of dextrin which would be accomplishing the same thing as the higher mash. i only just picked up some carafoam to play with as i found it at one of my LHBS that i dont visit all that often.

 

[InspectorJon]

I don’t have my notes in front of me but if I remember correctly it was 23 lbs of grain and .75lbs of dextrose.

Dextrose is just corn sugar right? That would typically serve to lower final gravity.

 

[couchsending]

No foam problems here

GW Idaho Select
8% Carafoam
2% Honey
.5% Caraaroma

 

[BeerFst]

Dextrose is just corn sugar right? That would typically serve to lower final gravity.

Yea to the corn sugar sorta to the rest. It doesn’t really reduce fg but stops it from being higher. I think it’s better stated as increasing abv without adding fg, whereas adding more grain to do the same increase to og would also increase your fg.

the only way to consider it would decrease fg, is by targeting a certain og, say 1.060. If you did all grain to get there it would likely have a higher fg than if you replace a portion of that grain with dextrose

 

[Dgallo]

Dextrose is just corn sugar right? That would typically serve to lower final gravity.

Yes, it’s corn sugar. It doesn’t technically lower fg (though the increased alcohol created could lower your fg) but In high grainbills where efficiency drops, it allows you to raise the abv without raising your fg.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

That's very interesting - the part about mash temps. I don't think I've heard that before - that higher temps can help with head retention. I've been mashing around 156 and finishing at 1.020 or so. I figured it was the wheat malt, flaked barley, and carafoam that was doing the trick for the great head retention I am getting, but maybe it was really the mash temp?!

Having initially learned my homebrewing the old school European (German) way, I always do a step mash with rests at 144-145, then 161-162 and mashout at 172. And head retention has always been the least of my concerns, on any beer I brewed so far, with any grain bill.
Some time ago I played with the idea of giving up my step-mashing routine in favor of a more straightforward single infusion, yet the more I read about this, the more I become convinced that step mashing may indeed benefit head retention in a very significant way.

 

[beervoid]

Having initially learned my homebrewing the old school European (German) way, I always do a step mash with rests at 144-145, then 161-162 and mashout at 172. And head retention has always been the least of my concerns, on any beer I brewed so far, with any grain bill.
Some time ago I played with the idea of giving up my step-mashing routine in favor of a more straightforward single infusion, yet the more I read about this, the more I become convinced that step mashing may indeed benefit head retention in a very significant way.

I do single infusion and have great head retention. I think PH control and the proper grainbill is the main thing. Yeast also has an effect.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

I do single infusion and have great head retention. I think PH control and the proper grainbill is the main thing. Yeast also has an effect.

I did not mean to say that it is not possible to have good head retention with single infusion. But I was always kind of surprised to read about seemingly quite many homebrewers/brewers trying all kinds of tricks to imporve it. I never had any problems with head retention, even for my initial attempts where my pH control was all but ideal. I also did not use any carafoam, flaked grains or other high protein grains in most of my beers. So I have come to believe that my step mashing routine might be a major contributor to head retention for my specific way of doing things. But as usual in brewing, there are so many factors that can affect the outcome...

 

[aaronm13]

I personally hate el dorado, so you m def bias towards it but I love simcoe mosaic combo. Simcoe is mosaic’s dad so they work very good together.

I don’t have my notes in front of me but if I remember correctly it was 23 lbs of grain and .75lbs of dextrose. My efficiency drops to close to 65% in big beers, so it was roughly 3%

Just checked my recipe there and the dextrose is 7% of the grain bill, does that seem too high?

El Dorado seems like one of those hops, i really like it. Good to know Mosaic and Simcose work well, what ratio would you use both? Heavier on the mosaic or a 50/50 split?

 

[Dgallo]

Just checked my recipe there and the dextrose is 7% of the grain bill, does that seem too high?

So you brew 2.5 gallon batches? If so then I would drop it 0.3lbs then.

El Dorado seems like one of those hops, i really like it. Good to know Mosaic and Simcose work well, what ratio would you use both? Heavier on the mosaic or a 50/50 split?

I want it to come off a little fruitier so I do a 2:1 ratio mosaic to simcoe. 1 to 1 will def work but will pull more earth/dank/pine notes out of both hops. If that’s the profile you like then it will be great

 

[aaronm13]

So you brew 2.5 gallon batches? If so then I would drop it 0.3lbs then.


I want it to come off a little fruitier so I do a 2:1 ratio mosaic to simcoe. 1 to 1 will def work but will pull more earth/dank/pine notes out of both hops. If that’s the profile you like then it will be great

I try and get around 5.5-6 galons into the fermenter so I can try and get a full serving keg so what would you think the appropriate dextrose amount would be?

I definitely want to be on the fruiter side so will go more Mosaic for sure.

 

[couchsending]

I did not mean to say that it is not possible to have good head retention with single infusion. But I was always kind of surprised to read about seemingly quite many homebrewers/brewers trying all kinds of tricks to imporve it. I never had any problems with head retention, even for my initial attempts where my pH control was all but ideal. I also did not use any carafoam, flaked grains or other high protein grains in most of my beers. So I have come to believe that my step mashing routine might be a major contributor to head retention for my specific way of doing things. But as usual in brewing, there are so many factors that can affect the outcome...

Step mashing is key.. and proper cellaring techniques.. grain bill is probably the third most important.. trying to think if I’ve ever read anything about pH when it comes to head. I can’t think of anything. Oh and properly cleaned glassware!

The 160-162 step is the step that’s optimum for producing the proteins that will aid in head retention. It can also help in palate fullness. It’s also the optimum temp for Alpha.

I will generally step most beers at 145/162/170. Sometimes I’ll change the temps a few degrees or change the amount of time at the lowest step.

There is an interesting article with KC Bier in the latest CB&B where they talk about adding a 126 step to a beer which they did point out with today’s malts shouldn’t be needed but it did result in the best head on any beer they’ve ever made.... Tried it in a Helles earlier this week.

The malt I’ve found to make the biggest difference in head retention is Chit malt. I don’t think Carafoam really does much.. wheat is somewhere in between.

What goes on in the fermenter is also key. Keeping as much trub out of the fermenter as possible. Keeping fermentation under control. Getting the yeast out of the beer or the beer off the yeast as soon as possible. Conditioning times/temps and how you chose to get there. These all have an impact on foam.

 

[Dgallo]

I try and get around 5.5-6 galons into the fermenter so I can try and get a full serving keg so what would you think the appropriate dextrose amount would be?

Sorry, I think I’m confused then. If 0.75lbs of dextrose would be 7% of your grainbill, that means your grainbill is just around 10.5 lbs. If this is a 5 gallon batch, how is this making a triple IPA. I think I may have miss read one of your previous posts

 

[isomerization]

No foam problems here

GW Idaho Select
8% Carafoam
2% Honey
.5% Caraaroma

View attachment 670400

Is this from a single pull on the tap or a slow pour style ala Bierstadt
Lagerhaus?

 

[Dgallo]

Is this from a single pull on the tap or a slow pour style ala Bierstadt
Lagerhaus?

Def has to be a slow pour. Def looks good. If you’ve ever been to Suarez, they slow pour all their beers before serving it to you. Def the best commercial foam I’ve seen