New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[turbo 6]

Nah just a People’s Choice competition. I want to make a great NEIPA.

 

[Dgallo]

Guys I’d like some help choosing hops for an upcoming competition I’m brewing for.
I have a half pound of each:
El Dorado, Idaho 7, Nelson, Galaxy, HBC 472, Amarillo, Mosaic, Citra and Vic Secret.

Planning on brewing a NEIPA targeting 7% abv.

I’m open to suggestions on the grain bill. I have 2 row, Pilsner, Maris otter, and white wheat. Also flakes oats.
I plan on using A24 yeast.

Thanks!

11 lb 2 row
2 lb white wheat
1 lb flaked oats
Mash 154*f

So everyone in the competition that enters a NE will be citra, mosaic, Galaxy so if I were you, I’d use Idaho 7, Citra, Nelson

I’d say Target 30ish ibus.

Hotside ratio: 2:1 Idaho7/citra
DH ratio: 1:1:3 Idaho7/Citra/Nelson

Use 12-14 total ounces and limit o2 contact post fermentation.

 

[flintoid]

The pressure fermented batch is kegged and carbed. Might can it tonight for my trip. A few lessons along the way..

Whoever adds honey malt to this style is crazy. It darkens the beer so much... And doesn't impart much of anything else.

I used 2oz of old as hell CTZ in the boil. It definitely was too much. I figured age would have dampened its potency... I was wrong.

Dry hopped with Columbus makes it delightful. This reminds me so much of a trip into Vermont. The more bitter bite with the dank citrus balances it well. The Conan with more IBUs screams of a VT IPA.

Moving away from flaked adjuncts gives it a better more even haze. And the white wheat malt does wonders for a pillowy head and mouth feel with the malted oats. I'm removing honey malt from here on out and leaving the flaked adjuncts out as well

14lbs 2 row pale malt
1.5 lbs malted white wheat
1.5 lbs malted oats
1.5 lbs honey malt

Mash @154F

2oz ctz 60 min boil
5oz Idaho 7 WP at 180-155F for 30 min
A24 Imperial Dry hop pitched at 64 for 3 days. 2 of which under 15 psi. 1oz cascade added for bio hops. Fermenter lid cracked and only held 5psi after
80f to finish on day 4
48 hr dry hop under 20psi
2oz citra
2oz ctz
2oz mosaic

 

[couchsending]

Honey malt is a 25L malt. It’s no different than any other 25L crystal malt really. Almost everyone recommends no more than 2% in hoppy beers. It does add to the beer but it definitely doesn’t taste like honey.

 

[Dgallo]

A few lessons along the way..

Whoever adds honey malt to this style is crazy. It darkens the beer so much... And doesn't impart much of anything else.

Well you did add 3x’s the typical amount of honey malt so at 25L that’s gunna impart quite a bit of color.

Honey malt adds sweetness to the beer as any crystal type malt would. You most likely didn’t get a chance to see how it works because of the large bittering charge you did with the 2oz of Columbus. That has to be a minimum of 75 IBU. So it ended up balancing out some ibus verses coming across sweet.

That being said, if you enjoyed parts of it and know what you’re going to adjust next time than it’s a success

 

[ttuato]

Alright NEIPA gurus - explain this one:

4gal batch

70% 2R
18% TF Malted Oats
9% Chit
3% Honey Malt

WP: 1.5oz each HBC 692, Mosaic, moteuka

DH1@ 1.022 - 1oz Each same blend

DH2@ FG after soft crash - 1.5oz each, same blend

Yeast: Conan (Barbarian A04 Gen 2)

Did all of the “hazy” tactics and yeast.

Week 3:

Here after six weeks in keg (haven’t drank any last two weeks...been drinking other taps, I have eight). I have floating diptube (This has never happened in four years 70+ batches of Neipas)

 

[ttuato]

Oh yeah water profile my standard NEIPA: RO - treated to 66 CA, 22 MG, 20 Na, 88 SO4, 150 Cl

Inside photos at night - it is not oxidized.

Tastes great though - body is a little thinner but not by much

 

[Dgallo]

Alright NEIPA gurus - explain this one:

4gal batch

70% 2R
18% TF Malted Oats
9% Chit
3% Honey Malt

WP: 1.5oz each HBC 692, Mosaic, moteuka

DH1@ 1.022 - 1oz Each same blend

DH2@ FG after soft crash - 1.5oz each, same blend

Yeast: Conan (Barbarian A04 Gen 2)

Did all of the “hazy” tactics and yeast.

Week 3:
View attachment 638807

Here after six weeks in keg (haven’t drank any last two weeks...been drinking other taps, I have eight). I have floating diptube (This has never happened in four years 70+ batches of Neipas)

View attachment 638806

I had a similar thing happen to me with one of my recent beers that I used malted wheat at 15% and Carapils at 8%. Happened 2 weeks sooner than yours but I was stunned. The keg was getting low when it happened but I was never able to narrow down why it cleared so much. One of my theories is I moved the keg and stirred up everything that flocced out previously. So when this got resuspended, other proteins and polyphenols in the beer got attracted to this trub, when it flocced out for the second time, it pulled more with it.

 

[ttuato]

While the brain trust figures that out - I shook the keg for the next pour. All is back to normal in OZ...

Look at that foam!

 

[ttuato]

FYI - I am not a fan of HBC 692. Daughter of Sabro. All I get is woody (probably the high humulene) - none of the grapefruit or floral that advertised. VERY potent - completely overshadows Mosaic & Moteuka - I dont taste or smell either of these, sadly.

Am open to trying in Whirlpool again though because it has highest geraniol ever reported (bio transformation). I figure the humulene would drop with yeast.

 

[flintoid]

I have had that happen to one batch of LA3 NEIPA. A non pressure 48 hour dry hop with flaked adjuncts. I shook it to get carbonation into it when I realized my cylinder ran out 4 weeks into its life. After a week it cleared up but could be roused.

Dgallo might be onto something.

 

[ttuato]

I had a similar thing happen to me with one of my recent beers that I used malted wheat at 15% and Carapils at 8%. Happened 2 weeks sooner than yours but I was stunned. The keg was getting low when it happened but I was never able to narrow down why it cleared so much. One of my theories is a moved the keg and stirred up everything that flocced out previously. So when this got resuspended, other proteins and polyphenols in the beer got attracted to this trub, when it flocced our for the second time, it pulled more with it.

I did move the keg right after the 3 week pic so I could clean all of my tap lines for a get together. Your theory makes sense to me @Dgallo thanks!

 

[turbo 6]

@Dgallo Thanks for the recipe. I’ll post pics and let you know how it comes out.

 

[couchsending]

HBC692 is interesting. Just like Sabro it is unbelievably potent. Not sure what it is about these hops but you honesty only need 10-15% of the total hop bill to come from them otherwise they tend to overpower everything.

I’ve got a bunch of it and I think I’m going to start adding it to the boil only to see how that works.

It is very woody that for sure. The Hill
Farmstead single hop beer did have a lot of interesting fruit but was dominated by the woody aspect as well.

The interesting thing to me about these hops is the potential to use a fraction of the total amount of hops cause they’re so potent.

 

[isomerization]

HBC692 is interesting. Just like Sabro it is unbelievably potent. Not sure what it is about these hops but you honesty only need 10-15% of the total hop bill to come from them otherwise they tend to overpower everything.

I’ve got a bunch of it and I think I’m going to start adding it to the boil only to see how that works.

It is very woody that for sure. The Hill
Farmstead single hop beer did have a lot of interesting fruit but was dominated by the woody aspect as well.

The interesting thing to me about these hops is the potential to use a fraction of the total amount of hops cause they’re so potent.

I didn’t head this advice with a pina colada IPA (8 oz Sabro in 12 oz hop bill) I made a few months ago, straight cedar chest. Lol.

My question is, with lower percentages are you expecting more fruit to come out or just that the woody notes will play a more appropriate supporting role? As of now, I don’t really want to risk using Sabro in an IPA, maybe save it for a dark beer?

 

[couchsending]

In my experience and with talking to some guys I really trust that make awesome hoppy beer, in those smaller quantities the cedar is more like coconut and the fruity aspects still pop.

I still can’t believe how potent it is when you open a bag of Sabro. You can smell it across the room, even more so that Galaxy. I’m down to my last few ounces that I bought in maybe October and it’s still just as potent when I open the bag I’ve vacuum sealed so many times now.

I actually just made a Pineapple/Coconut inspired IPA as well. Looks like fermentation is winding down this AM. Gonna see what the gravity sample tastes like here in a bit.

Denali/El Dorado/Columbus with a touch of Sabro in the WP. Gonna dry hop with Denali, Vic Secret, and a very small amount of Sabro as well.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Are there any reports on the Lallemand New England Ale Yeast yet?

 

[vtipsy]

HBC692 is interesting. Just like Sabro it is unbelievably potent. Not sure what it is about these hops but you honesty only need 10-15% of the total hop bill to come from them otherwise they tend to overpower everything.

I’ve got a bunch of it and I think I’m going to start adding it to the boil only to see how that works.

It is very woody that for sure. The Hill
Farmstead single hop beer did have a lot of interesting fruit but was dominated by the woody aspect as well.

The interesting thing to me about these hops is the potential to use a fraction of the total amount of hops cause they’re so potent.

Because nothing is ever simple ... I did a sabro/azaca/mosaic recently that was superb and had very little cedar, certainly not to my palette. When shared with friends, one guy commented that he was getting pine notes ("did I use Simcoe"). This was probably my best beer yet.

5 gallons. OG 1.073. FG 1.020

WP: Mosaic: 2.5oz, Sabro 2oz
Fermentation dry hops: Azacca 4oz, Sabro 2oz
Keg hops: Sabro 2oz, Mosaic Cryo 1oz

 

[beervoid]

I did a 8oz total beer which had 1oz cryo. From that total 2oz was Sabro and I got a slight creamy coconut.
After that I did one with only 1oz sabro.
It supposed to be a lifter hop that can lift others with a little addition. Definately helped spike up the hoppyness of my ipas.

I would say 2oz is good for a test. 3oz is def the max I would go if you really want to taste it.

 

[beervoid]

On a sidenote, does anyone know why none of the southern hemisphere hops dont have their linalool and geraniol contents listed?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

On a sidenote, does anyone know why none of the southern hemisphere hops dont have their linalool and geraniol contents listed?

The hop markets in both Oz and NZ are effectively controlled by a single organisation each, so the market is dependent on what those organisations are prepared to test for and release information about. Since their industries are so much smaller than the US, I guess it's just a question of them not having the labs etc to test every batch, but I guess it will come.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Are there any reports on the Lallemand New England Ale Yeast yet?

Well it has its own threads, which I see you've found. From what I can tell it behaves pretty much typically of first-generation Conan - so not as peachy as later generations, but good enough for the likes of Cloudwater to use in Untappd-4.23-rated DIPAs. They seem to have largely switched to using it rather than the WL and TYB liquid versions.

I can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread, but Lallemand are promising two new dry yeasts this year, a kveik and "another one for NEIPAs", presumably a 1318 derivative.

 

[beervoid]

Well it has its own threads, which I see you've found. From what I can tell it behaves pretty much typically of first-generation Conan - so not as peachy as later generations, but good enough for the likes of Cloudwater to use in Untappd-4.23-rated DIPAs. They seem to have largely switched to using it rather than the WL and TYB liquid versions.

I can't remember if I've mentioned it in this thread, but Lallemand are promising two new dry yeasts this year, a kveik and "another one for NEIPAs", presumably a 1318 derivative.

I've read there are problems with vitability?
Small packages where promised but never came out?
Would like to try this out. G1 conan always gave me plenty of esters, I believe Kimmich mentioned they use it from g1 to g6 cause after 6 it goes down.

 

[ehk089]

Is anyone still brewing the original (most up to date version) of this recipe. I know he mixes up 6 oz for whirlpool and 6 oz for single dryhop, but it’s hard to know what ibu you’re getting. The reason I ask is because I’m brewing 11 gallons, so I assume I’d just double those hop amounts to be close? Beersmith calculates 84 ibu but that seems off...

 

[Dgallo]

Is anyone still brewing the original (most up to date version) of this recipe. I know he mixes up 6 oz for whirlpool and 6 oz for single dryhop, but it’s hard to know what ibu you’re getting. The reason I ask is because I’m brewing 11 gallons, so I assume I’d just double those hop amounts to be close? Beersmith calculates 84 ibu but that seems off...

You’re boil size will have greater alpha acid iso. than a 5 gallon batch would. Greater volumes, greater utilization. That’s one reason beer smith will calculate higher.

To be honest I don’t even recall the most updated version of this recipe. Most folks in here have very similar hoping schedules but their grainbill and hop combos vary

 

[ehk089]

Does 12 oz in the whirlpool (hi alpha I.e. Citra/mosaic/galaxy) and 12 oz in dry hop sound right? I use 1 oz Columbus at 30 min in the boil.

 

[couchsending]

nevermind

 

[ehk089]

Nope 11, sorry forgot to add that

 

[beervoid]

Does 12 oz in the whirlpool (hi alpha I.e. Citra/mosaic/galaxy) and 12 oz in dry hop sound right? I use 1 oz Columbus at 30 min in the boil.

You can skip the bittering addition completely or half it, move it to 10-5min addition for more flavor.
I wouldnt waste that much hops in the whirlpool.
You can easily half the additions and taste no difference. Heck if you want some powerfull aroma move them to the dry hop.

 

[Dgallo]

I wouldnt waste that much hops in the whirlpool. You can easily half the additions and taste no difference. Heck if you want some powerfull aroma move them to the dry hop.

I’m literally so sick of hearing these two statements. Whirlpool provides a lot of flavor and Aroma. You can certainly tell the difference between 3oz whirlpool and a 6 oz whirlpool. Hotside Provides a different set of flavor and Aroma than dryhoping does. A perfect example of a beer that uses higher hotside hops than DH is Sip of Sunshine from Lawson’s. Would you say that beer lacks flavor or aroma? Its just a different flavor/aroma profile than let’s say a TH beer.

Have you ever tried an all dryhop beer or an all WH beer? I have and I can tell you that the wh beer was better and still had a nice aroma. Don’t get me wrong it still seemed like it was missing something, but the DH only beer, though the aroma was great, it’s flavor was delicate and missing assertiveness. I get that people have their preferences on which ratio they like better, I’m usually 40/60 or 60/40 depending on the hops I’m using, but to say you’ll get the same flavor by halving your whirlpool in my experience is just not true.

 

[beervoid]

I’m literally so sick of hearing these two statements. Whirlpool provides a lot of flavor and Aroma. You can certainly tell the difference between 3oz whirlpool and a 6 oz whirlpool. Hotside Provides a different set of flavor and Aroma than dryhoping does. A perfect example of a beer that uses higher hotside hops than DH is Sip of Sunshine from Lawson’s. Would you say that beer lacks flavor or aroma? Its just a different flavor/aroma profile than let’s say a TH beer.

Have you ever tried an all dryhop beer or an all WH beer? I have and I can tell you that the wh beer was better and still had a nice aroma. Don’t get me wrong it still seemed like it was missing something, but the DH only beer, though the aroma was great, it’s flavor was delicate and missing assertiveness. I get that people have their preferences on which ratio they like better, I’m usually 40/60 or 60/40 depending on the hops I’m using, but to say you’ll get the same flavor by halving your whirlpool in my experience is just not true.

I tried a heavy dose of whirlpool, 10oz mosaic on 5 gallons with a relatively small dose of dry hop 3oz mosaic.
Beer was ok but didnt stand out.

Never did whirlpool only but I have been lowering my wp additions with success. I also still play with different hop kinds (cascade, centennial, columbus, chinook) with or without citra and mosaic in the mix. Added cryo in the mix for more flavor saturation.
Kept the dry hop the same. I couldnt taste a difference between all these batches. To me it seems a decent dry hop dose overpowers everything.
I always taste my beer pre dry hop as well. It just tastes hoppy and similar. Maybe my palette is not good recognizing the difference pre dry hopped.
Not claiming that wp doesnt have a function but I dont think large amounts of hops are neccesary.
If you listen to the pro's the rates I have heard be used mostly are just a litle more then 1lbs per barrel which comes down to 2 to 3oz per 5 gallons.
Must have something to do with saturation and loss of delicate oils by fermentation.

Could you describe what kind of flavor differences you get from different amounts of wp additions and different hops? (apart from bitterness)

 

[schematix]

I whirlpool no less than 6oz/5gal and dry hop no less than 4oz/5gal.

Layering the hops is key to giving the full experience.... 60/15/10/5/KO/dry. Look into hop hop hash and distilled hop oil too.

Using hop hash in the KO or dry can help reduce loss since you can roughly halve the amount vs regular pellets. Also if you like your hop aroma over the top try adding distilled hop oil. Major potent stuff.

 

[beervoid]

I whirlpool no less than 6oz/5gal and dry hop no less than 4oz/5gal.

Layering the hops is key to giving the full experience.... 60/15/10/5/KO/dry. Look into hop hop hash and distilled hop oil too.

Using hop hash in the KO or dry can help reduce loss since you can roughly halve the amount vs regular pellets. Also if you like your hop aroma over the top try adding distilled hop oil. Major potent stuff.

I've got some distilled hop oils. They are a pain to blend in the dry hop.
Are you saying they work well in the whirlpool?

 

[Dgallo]

I agree hop hash on the hotside and the same with oil. They both don’t extract well cold. I’m not against boil hops by any means but if I did a 60 for a NEIPA I wouldn’t add another hop until 5 or flame out. I’d count that towards my total hotside and would lower my whirlpool accordingly

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've read there are problems with vitability?
Small packages where promised but never came out?

They've struggled with viability but it's usable, the retail packs have been available in the UK for a few weeks now.

I've been able to confirm that the upcoming yeasts are versions of Voss and "London Ale" (so presumably 1318), the bacterium is another Lactobacillus.

 

[beervoid]

They've struggled with viability but it's usable, the retail packs have been available in the UK for a few weeks now.

I've been able to confirm that the upcoming yeasts are versions of Voss and "London Ale" (so presumably 1318), the bacterium is another Lactobacillus.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...t-details/london-esb-english-style-ale-yeast/
They have a london ale named one already.

 

[isomerization]

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...t-details/london-esb-english-style-ale-yeast/
They have a london ale named one already.

Well this will be London Ale 3

 

[schematix]

I've got some distilled hop oils. They are a pain to blend in the dry hop.
Are you saying they work well in the whirlpool?

No hop oil goes right into the keg.

 

[Dgallo]

No hop oil goes right into the keg.

Which brand are you using? Anyone I’ve used is like resinous gloop that comes out of a syringe that’s hard enough to get it to dissolve in the Whirlpool

 

[schematix]

Which brand are you using? Anyone I’ve used is like resinous gloop that comes out of a syringe that’s hard enough to get it to dissolve in the Whirlpool

Ah.. I think you’re referring to the type used for bittering.

You want this stuff for off the charts aroma: https://www.morebeer.com/products/distilled-hop-oil-chinook-1-ml.html