New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

When u say the water out of your tap is great what do you mean? It tastes great? You can make crappy beer with great tasting water and great beer with crappy tasting water.

Yes ideally it should taste great but honestly that’s of little concern. My well water tastes fine yet I literally couldn’t make any style of beer with it without some serious adjustments.

Send your water into ward labs to have it tested. It costs maybe $30-$40. It’s really easy to then plug it into a water spreadsheet that’s basically no cost.

You however might live in one of the few areas of the country where you actually don’t need to do much to your water?

They post the monthly water reports here in Minneapolis, so probably no need to send in the water for testing, right? The average PH is 9. For December it was 8.91. What are the other key numbers that I should be reviewing to make adjustments? Akalinity (ppm CaCO3) was 58. There are two hardness numbers: 5.32 grains per gallon; 91 ppm CaCO3.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The ones that “biotransform” the best you might not use in an IPA.

It requires the yeast to have the beta glucosdiase properties.

Lalleman New England does
- thought to be the dry version of Conan but I’m not sure. Supposedly this yeast sucks and consequently hasn’t been produced in 11g packs.

I still haven't got round to listening to that MBAA podcast, but before anyone gets too carried away...

People got very excited about yeast glucosidases a while back, potentially a glucosidase could release a lot of flavour compounds that currently drop out in the hop waste. But then it was found that the beer yeasts tend to produce very little if any glucosidase (as first found by Daenan et al 2008, and updated by the Shellhammer lab 2017). But releasing compounds from hops is just one of the variety of processes that we refer to as biotransformation - the interesting conversions of terpenols will need different enzymes.

So people started looking at the wine yeasts with glucosidase activity, in particular QA23 some 3-4 years ago as that was about the only one that was available in retail packs. But AIUI even that didn't really seem to do much in the context of the experimental conditions that were tried.

This was one reason I created my list of wine yeasts by killer and POF status, to filter out ones that might be beer friendly. Uvaferm 228 is an obvious candidate, being non-killer and POF- as well as having reasonable glucosidase activity per Daenan et al, but it's not officially available in retail form, although I did find some shops in Eastern Europe breaking down commercial bricks. More recently Scott Janish (or was it Mike Tonsmeire?) has tweeted pictures of him playing with bricks of some of the new wine yeasts out of Stellenbosch, which again seem to be only available in commercial bricks in South Africa. So he's not giving up on the idea, even if it does mean looking out some fairly unusual yeasts.

But releasing compounds from glycosides is just one stage in the journey.

PS Yes Lallemand New England is derived from commercial beers made with a Conan derivative. The problem is not that "it sucks" from a brewing perspective, but it just hates being dried, at the moment they're quoting 1billion viable cells per gram, versus 6 billion /g for their other strains. But they claim to be working on the viability, the last time I talked to a rep about it he said retail packs would be available in early 2019 but I'll believe it when I see it....

When Scott Janish compared a Conan (GY054 Vermont) against 1318, he found that relative to the Conan, he "thought the aroma of the 1318 London Ale III beer was slightly similar but turned down about 20% and a little more true to the hops used...Rather than a huge sticky orange lifesavers aroma, the London strain was more of an orange sherbert with a slight lemon/lime thing."

I read that as 1318 taking 20% of the hop flavour and transforming it into something else compared to the activity of the Conan. I'd question whether the slight lemon/lime thing is "a little more true to the hops", I suspect it's just he's so used to the taste of slightly biotransformed Citra that he thinks the lime is normal. When I compared T-58 to Mangrove Jack M36 on Chinook, the M36 gave the classic Chinook grapefruit, whereas the T-58 had about 20% less flavour and the grapefruit had turned into lime.

So my interpretation of that is that both T-58 and 1318 have relatively more biotransformation activity compared to M36 and GJ054 Vermont.

But they are just one-off experiments, more data is needed. I've got as far as buying hops for more experiments and sterilising some bottles, I just need to get my backside in gear and do the tests!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Just having a quick poke around the Sapwood guys' Twitter feeds :

Mike's article in BYO on wine yeast

Scott likes 71B for secondary fermentation but thinks it gets too dry as a primary whereas Mike favoured one of Scott's 71B NEIPAs over two others labelled "Q" (QA23??) and ??58 (presumably 58W3 which Mike has used in a sour and has also used BM45 in the same recipe, having used BM45 in a Flemish ale back in 2011). This article by Scott refers to Wanapu et al 2012, which found that 71B had the most glucosidase activity out of 17 wine yeasts.

More recently Scott has used Vin7, whose big thing is releasing thiols from eg sauvignon blanc.

 

[troglodytes]

I'm not so sure about that.

http://scottjanish.com/increasing-bitterness-dry-hopping/

I can attest to Janish's info anecdotally. Just brewed up a beer with only .25 Oz @fwh and then 8 Oz dry hop with nothing in between, the bitterness after dry hoping was night and day difference. 8 Oz of Mosaic @60F definitely added ibus along with flavor and aroma

 

[marchuk96]

They post the monthly water reports here in Minneapolis, so probably no need to send in the water for testing, right? The average PH is 9. For December it was 8.91. What are the other key numbers that I should be reviewing to make adjustments? Akalinity (ppm CaCO3) was 58. There are two hardness numbers: 5.32 grains per gallon; 91 ppm CaCO3.

So by adding just a gram of gypsum and this is going to be highly dependent on what grain bill you have and what your starting ph and individual ppm measurements are for your water as well as mash volume and kettle volume..you are essentially adding more sulfate than calcium to your beer...typically for neipa it should be the other way around...you would want a higher amount of calcium and lower amount of sulfate...think west coast mouthfeel versus east coast mouthfeel...now without knowing anything about your water i can tell you that i use distilled which starts with 0's across the board for minerals and if i used lets say just 2 row crystal 10 and some carapils for a 5.5 gal batch...ph would be around a 5.5 with that one gram of gypsum but again much more sulfate than calcium in the beer.. its a bit more than 2:1 ratio wise... pick up some calcium chloride and either get your water tested or buy distilled and download brunwater...conquer that final frontier!

 

[SRJHops]

So by adding just a gram of gypsum and this is going to be highly dependent on what grain bill you have and what your starting ph and individual ppm measurements are for your water as well as mash volume and kettle volume..you are essentially adding more sulfate than calcium to your beer...typically for neipa it should be the other way around...you would want a higher amount of calcium and lower amount of sulfate...think west coast mouthfeel versus east coast mouthfeel...now without knowing anything about your water i can tell you that i use distilled which starts with 0's across the board for minerals and if i used lets say just 2 row crystal 10 and some carapils for a 5.5 gal bat?ch...ph would be around a 5.5 with that one gram of gypsum but again much more sulfate than calcium in the beer.. its a bit more than 2:1 ratio wise... pick up some calcium chloride and either get your water tested or buy distilled and download brunwater...conquer that final frontier!

Thanks for your help and encouragement -- I do appreciate it. It is indeed the final frontier of homebrewing!

So, I can look at the water report from the City every month, so I don't understand why I'd need to test it?

Based on the report, my starting ph for the mash water is going to be around 9, give or take a tenth. If I understand what you are saying, it's the mash ph we are talking about, which is a combination of the ph of the water and the grains. So that is where we are looking for a mash ph of 5.5 or so, right? I guess I am understanding why you have to use a calculator/spreadsheet!

Is it fair to say, though, that if you know your water ph is high, the adding something to bring it down is a pretty good idea, even if you can't measure the mash ph? My understanding is that you can add Gypsum, Epsom Salt, or Calcium Chloride to lower the mash water ph. Is Calcium Chloride a better choice for this style?

Is the boil kettle ph also a thing to measure?

 

[GnenieGone]

Cold Brew NEIPA. 3lbs each Golden Light/Wheat dme. 1oz Citra/Ekuanot cryo each. 1oz regular Simcoe. Chemicals. Omega DIPA/Connan and 05 added. All added cold, 65F. Brewed in a bucket and xfered to keg while purging day 6. No dry hops. Drink fast before anything changes.

 

[SanPancho]

Bm45 got a bit thick on me, almost syrup like, but wasn’t a hoppy beer so camt speak to that. 71b wasnt as bad but didn’t give me much in the way of esters i was looking for, might have driven it too high though. Had a bit of a pissy taste at the end. Havent had chance to get that one into a hoppy beer either.

 

[marchuk96]

Thanks for your help and encouragement -- I do appreciate it. It is indeed the final frontier of homebrewing!

So, I can look at the water report from the City every month, so I don't understand why I'd need to test it?

Based on the report, my starting ph for the mash water is going to be around 9, give or take a tenth. If I understand what you are saying, it's the mash ph we are talking about, which is a combination of the ph of the water and the grains. So that is where we are looking for a mash ph of 5.5 or so, right? I guess I am understanding why you have to use a calculator/spreadsheet!

Is it fair to say, though, that if you know your water ph is high, the adding something to bring it down is a pretty good idea, even if you can't measure the mash ph? My understanding is that you can add Gypsum, Epsom Salt, or Calcium Chloride to lower the mash water ph. Is Calcium Chloride a better choice for this style?

Is the boil kettle ph also a thing to measure?

I am by no means a water pro...but what I have read and gathered is that if your tap water is a basic constant than there is no need for a test...maybe once a year or every 6 months...get some campden tabs or pre boil your water...brewing salts i.e gypsum and calcium chloride will indeed drop your ph...but it is not only ph but the levels of each of those salts...not grains.. that helps make your beer go from good to great...for a lighter colred beer like pale ales and neipa u may want a bit lower ph..say 5.2 - 5.3...for darker beers like a stout ...the higher end is likely more desirable..5.5 - 5.6...if u have a high ph..adding something is indeed better than nothing to bring that ph down to a better level if its appropriate for the style you are making...the target range for all beers is 5.2-5.6...falling within that range gives you better extraction and produces a better overall mouthfeel and perceived flavor to the beer than being outside of that range...mash ph is closely related to kettle ph....so the mash ph will almost replicate what your ketlte ph is...brunwater is free...there is some good reading included with it and all it takes is some playing around to figure out what does what...pale beers are real easy to adjust and need minimal work to adjust to your ideal range...i say get calcium chloride because other than epsom salt and gypsum...those are the only three salts u really need to adjust your beer to proper ph and mineral levels..there are other things you can buy for adjustments like different acids that help but i have never had a need for them until recently adjusting water for a stout...pale beers are much simpler to manipulate...calcium chloride will help you reach a higher calcium level without adding extra sulfate which is more along the lines of what you need for a neipa....my general additons are a 2:1 ratio in favor of calcium...this is the complete opposite of what you are doing now with your addition of gypsum.....so more calcium chloride and half the gypsum...gives a real soft feel to the beer...both are important and each play a role...

 

[leesmith]

Thanks for your help and encouragement -- I do appreciate it. It is indeed the final frontier of homebrewing!

So, I can look at the water report from the City every month, so I don't understand why I'd need to test it?

Based on the report, my starting ph for the mash water is going to be around 9, give or take a tenth. If I understand what you are saying, it's the mash ph we are talking about, which is a combination of the ph of the water and the grains. So that is where we are looking for a mash ph of 5.5 or so, right? I guess I am understanding why you have to use a calculator/spreadsheet!

Is it fair to say, though, that if you know your water ph is high, the adding something to bring it down is a pretty good idea, even if you can't measure the mash ph? My understanding is that you can add Gypsum, Epsom Salt, or Calcium Chloride to lower the mash water ph. Is Calcium Chloride a better choice for this style?

Is the boil kettle ph also a thing to measure?

Can you post a link to one of the water reports?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Thanks for your help and encouragement -- I do appreciate it. It is indeed the final frontier of homebrewing!

So, I can look at the water report from the City every month, so I don't understand why I'd need to test it?

Based on the report, my starting ph for the mash water is going to be around 9, give or take a tenth. If I understand what you are saying, it's the mash ph we are talking about, which is a combination of the ph of the water and the grains. So that is where we are looking for a mash ph of 5.5 or so, right? I guess I am understanding why you have to use a calculator/spreadsheet!

Is it fair to say, though, that if you know your water ph is high, the adding something to bring it down is a pretty good idea, even if you can't measure the mash ph? My understanding is that you can add Gypsum, Epsom Salt, or Calcium Chloride to lower the mash water ph. Is Calcium Chloride a better choice for this style?

Is the boil kettle ph also a thing to measure?

If it's just one of those basic water quality reports it'll be useless for these purposes. Some municipalities do post more detailed reports with the brewing minerals we care about plus the water's alkalinity. That's what really matters when trying to figure out how to adjust to your targeted mash ph, not the water's starting ph. The spreadsheets won't work unless you have that info to plug in. If their water report isn't detailed enough you can call them and sometimes they're helpful. Or you'll have to get it tested or use distilled or RO if you really want to know exactly what you're brewing with. If you're happy with your beer I wouldn't sweat it too much, but understanding your water is a good thing if you truly want to dial in your process/system as much as possible.

 

[couchsending]

Thanks for your help and encouragement -- I do appreciate it. It is indeed the final frontier of homebrewing!

So, I can look at the water report from the City every month, so I don't understand why I'd need to test it?

Based on the report, my starting ph for the mash water is going to be around 9, give or take a tenth. If I understand what you are saying, it's the mash ph we are talking about, which is a combination of the ph of the water and the grains. So that is where we are looking for a mash ph of 5.5 or so, right? I guess I am understanding why you have to use a calculator/spreadsheet!

Is it fair to say, though, that if you know your water ph is high, the adding something to bring it down is a pretty good idea, even if you can't measure the mash ph? My understanding is that you can add Gypsum, Epsom Salt, or Calcium Chloride to lower the mash water ph. Is Calcium Chloride a better choice for this style?

Is the boil kettle ph also a thing to measure?

It depends on how detailed your water quality report is from the city. I guarantee you could probably call and get a rather detailed one.

Like has already been stated the pH of your water doesn’t really matter. It’s the amount of buffer it has that’s important. It could have a pH of 9 with low alkalinity or a pH of 7 with tons of alkalinity. In this case the high pH would be much easier to work with.

For anything but dark beers you need to get rid of the alkalinity to some extent. Modest amounts of alkalinity can be dealt with by adding Ca salts but most likely you’ll need some form of acid or at least acid malt.

 

[SRJHops]

Can you post a link to one of the water reports?

Here is the page with the pdfs of the reports. The latest is December, and they also produce annual reports -- they are over to the right and down: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/publicworks/water/index.htm

So, what numbers should I be looking at? And what should be adjusted and how (what chemicals) for a NEIPA?

Thanks for your help!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

That should have what you need. Sulfate, chloride, calcium, sodium, magnesium, and total alkalinity are the inputs on most water spreadsheets. Download one and plug your numbers in and play around. They're not that hard to use, but if you need help you should probably start a new thread in a different section.

 

[leesmith]

Here is the page with the pdfs of the reports. The latest is December, and they also produce annual reports -- they are over to the right and down: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/publicworks/water/index.htm

So, what numbers should I be looking at? And what should be adjusted and how (what chemicals) for a NEIPA?

Thanks for your help!

I've highlighted the ION's and info you should be concerned about in the attached PDF.
You need to get rid of the chlorine. Use Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) to treat it.

Other than that you have decent water.
The first thing is treat the chlorine....and adjust for mash ph (lactic acid 88%) and that's it. Brew with that baseline and see what you get.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Use the calculator linked above....create a free account and that way you can save your water profiles. Read the directions. And make sure you are adjusting the drop down menus to match your Source Water ppm's and such.

Enter in your Grist Info to help calculate your acid additions.




There are many different ways to adjust your water....but if you want to start with what people think should be used in this style then select Light Colored and Malty in the Water Target Selection.

Then in the Salt Additions section....add in the salts until it matches the Water Target.

Again make sure you are adjusting to drop down menus in any of the sections to reflect the correct units of measure.

Anyways...that's a start.

 

[SRJHops]

I've highlighted the ION's and info you should be concerned about in the attached PDF.
You need to get rid of the chlorine. Use Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) to treat it.

Other than that you have decent water.
The first thing is treat the chlorine....and adjust for mash ph (lactic acid 88%) and that's it. Brew with that baseline and see what you get.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Use the calculator linked above....create a free account and that way you can save your water profiles. Read the directions. And make sure you are adjusting the drop down menus to match your Source Water ppm's and such.

Enter in your Grist Info to help calculate your acid additions.


View attachment 613101

There are many different ways to adjust your water....but if you want to start with what people think should be used in this style then select Light Colored and Malty in the Water Target Selection.

Then in the Salt Additions section....add in the salts until it matches the Water Target.

Again make sure you are adjusting to drop down menus in any of the sections to reflect the correct units of measure.

Anyways...that's a start.

I've highlighted the ION's and info you should be concerned about in the attached PDF.
You need to get rid of the chlorine. Use Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) to treat it.

Other than that you have decent water.
The first thing is treat the chlorine....and adjust for mash ph (lactic acid 88%) and that's it. Brew with that baseline and see what you get.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Use the calculator linked above....create a free account and that way you can save your water profiles. Read the directions. And make sure you are adjusting the drop down menus to match your Source Water ppm's and such.

Enter in your Grist Info to help calculate your acid additions.


View attachment 613101

There are many different ways to adjust your water....but if you want to start with what people think should be used in this style then select Light Colored and Malty in the Water Target Selection.

Then in the Salt Additions section....add in the salts until it matches the Water Target.

Again make sure you are adjusting to drop down menus in any of the sections to reflect the correct units of measure.

Anyways...that's a start.

Thanks so much - the water journey begins!

P.S. I have the tablets, but I use a super cool RV filter to remove the chlorine. I can hook it to my sink or my outside water faucet:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX87S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[leesmith]

Thanks so much - the water journey begins!

P.S. I have the tablets, but I use a super cool RV filter to remove the chlorine. I can hook it to my sink or my outside water faucet:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX87S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Your welcome.

In the Consumer Confidence Report it is stated the chlorine is in the form of Chloramine. This can not be remove effectively with a carbon filter.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/campden-tablets-sulfites-and-brewing-water.361073/

 

[marchuk96]

Thanks so much - the water journey begins!

P.S. I have the tablets, but I use a super cool RV filter to remove the chlorine. I can hook it to my sink or my outside water faucet:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006IX87S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I don't believe it is removing all of the chlorine either...it may reduce it but to what %??

 

[SRJHops]

I don't believe it is removing all of the chlorine either...it may reduce it but to what %??

Thanks, I will keep that in mind. It does seem to work at least enough to remove the taste of chlorine. I tasted a beer I made without it and the chlorine jumped right out. Now I can't taste it at all in my beers. But I do have the campden tabs, so its an easy experiment...

 

[SRJHops]

I've highlighted the ION's and info you should be concerned about in the attached PDF.
You need to get rid of the chlorine. Use Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) to treat it.

Other than that you have decent water.
The first thing is treat the chlorine....and adjust for mash ph (lactic acid 88%) and that's it. Brew with that baseline and see what you get.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

Use the calculator linked above....create a free account and that way you can save your water profiles. Read the directions. And make sure you are adjusting the drop down menus to match your Source Water ppm's and such.

Enter in your Grist Info to help calculate your acid additions.


View attachment 613101

There are many different ways to adjust your water....but if you want to start with what people think should be used in this style then select Light Colored and Malty in the Water Target Selection.

Then in the Salt Additions section....add in the salts until it matches the Water Target.

Again make sure you are adjusting to drop down menus in any of the sections to reflect the correct units of measure.

Anyways...that's a start.

Cool! I just did it. I picked light and hoppy, though. What is the thinking for light and malty?

For my current grain bill, for light and hoppy, I would need to add 1.5 tsp gypsum, .5 tsp Epsom Salt, and .25 tsp Calcium Chloride to the brewing water.

What is HCO? The target is 0, and the actual is 62, but I don't see a way to lower it. Do I need to worry about it?

 

[couchsending]

Cool! I just did it. I picked light and hoppy, though. What is the thinking for light and malty?

For my current grain bill, for light and hoppy, I would need to add 1.5 tsp gypsum, .5 tsp Epsom Salt, and .25 tsp Calcium Chloride to the brewing water.

What is HCO? The target is 0, and the actual is 62, but I don't see a way to lower it. Do I need to worry about it?

Acid, lactic is the easiest to come by. Acid neutralizes the bicarbonate.

Don’t worry so much about the profiles. Those small amounts of salts don’t make a huge difference in my mind. Just pick one and go with it. Using the acid to make sure your pH falls into line is the most important. At least for now. Once you get that down then start screwing with the salt additions.

 

[SRJHops]

Acid, lactic is the easiest to come by. Acid neutralizes the bicarbonate.

Don’t worry so much about the profiles. Those small amounts of salts don’t make a huge difference in my mind. Just pick one and go with it. Using the acid to make sure your pH falls into line is the most important. At least for now. Once you get that down then start screwing with the salt additions.

Sweet! I didn't click on the acid section, so that makes sense. You know, this water stuff isn't as scary as I feared. Much appreciation to you all for helping me!

 

[pittbrewing]

Been holding at 72-73* since Sunday. Just ch checked gravity at 10105. No diacetyl present I think it’s hit FG . I am going to give it till Sunday to tidy up the check gravity then keg if no change. View attachment 612317

Are you using the recipe listed in this thread? I have not been able to get mine that cloudy and am curious of your recipe. Thanks!

 

[tld6008]

Are you using the recipe listed in this thread? I have not been able to get mine that cloudy and am curious of your recipe. Thanks!

Don't be concerned how cloudy it is, how does it taste? When I have brewed this recipe it doesn't look exactly like the referred photo but it tastes and smells wonderful.

 

[troglodytes]

This is off topic, but I must make a note. Maybe some have brought this up in the thread already, but even if so, I think it bears repeating lest you have a Sat night like me.

If you are going to be dry hopping with 8 oz of hops, don't be like me, put them in a bag or a stainless mesh tube. I oxygenated the crap out of 5 gallons over the course of 2.5 hours as I assembled and disassembled clogged poppits and QDs when transferring to the keg. I'm talking about 20+ times. I'm not ready to say the batch is ruined, but between me blowing out the tubing (with my mouth), the oxygenation, the quarts of beers and hops all over my basement floor, I don't see it being at peak for long.

Lets just say that was a Sat night I won't soon forget.

 

[JBone120]

This is off topic, but I must make a note. Maybe some have brought this up in the thread already, but even if so, I think it bears repeating lest you have a Sat night like me.

If you are going to be dry hopping with 8 oz of hops, don't be like me, put them in a bag or a stainless mesh tube. I oxygenated the crap out of 5 gallons over the course of 2.5 hours as I assembled and disassembled clogged poppits and QDs when transferring to the keg. I'm talking about 20+ times. I'm not ready to say the batch is ruined, but between me blowing out the tubing (with my mouth), the oxygenation, the quarts of beers and hops all over my basement floor, I don't see it being at peak for long.

Lets just say that was a Sat night I won't soon forget.

It might also be worth mentioning, that instead of going through all that anguish, grab your trusty racking can and siphon in to your keg through the lid... assuming you still have the cane and tubing.

I realized I lost all common sense on a hoppy stuck transfer to a keg once, then realized using the racking cane will be way less traumatic in my beer.

 

[troglodytes]

It might also be worth mentioning, that instead of going through all that anguish, grab your trusty racking can and siphon in to your keg through the lid... assuming you still have the cane and tubing.

I realized I lost all common sense on a hoppy stuck transfer to a keg once, then realized using the racking cane will be way less traumatic in my beer.

I thought about that at the time I scrapped the notion that I was doing a low O2 transfer and disconnected my gas out from the top of my fermentor. But I had what I think was an infection issue a while back and have begun using my racking/bottling equipment for sours. I wasn't willing to risk going that far so I kept with it.

 

[SRJHops]

I think as well that the dry hop should be done after the fermentation, but:
-the OP suggests that the dry hop should be done in 2-3 day after fermentation starts - because I never had done a NEIPA I don't know if this is for style or for best hop utilization/aroma/flavor
- user SRJHops recommended so - same as above, but I am waiting for his late dry hop addition result
-it should create the haze - but user cheesebach report that the haze was already in the worth before dry hopping

I am thinking that I should use a HDPE cube with a spigot for fermentation because it has only a 5cm opening, so when I make the dry hop It should introduce less O2 than opening a bucket lid.
Also I have a question for those who keg: If you make the transfer from the fermenter to keg by purging the keg with co2 to eliminate oxygen, what would be the difference from bottling directly from primary and bottling from a purged y priming bucket ?

Double dry hopped bottle conditioned beer is fully carbed, with no signs of oxidation. Aroma IS better, so I intend to keep the 2nd dry hop 3 days b4 bottling and purge carboy with wine preserver gas. Keep in mind that I fill my carboy and don't have much headspace to start with. Good luck!

 

[tld6008]

This is off topic, but I must make a note. Maybe some have brought this up in the thread already, but even if so, I think it bears repeating lest you have a Sat night like me.

If you are going to be dry hopping with 8 oz of hops, don't be like me, put them in a bag or a stainless mesh tube. I oxygenated the crap out of 5 gallons over the course of 2.5 hours as I assembled and disassembled clogged poppits and QDs when transferring to the keg. I'm talking about 20+ times. I'm not ready to say the batch is ruined, but between me blowing out the tubing (with my mouth), the oxygenation, the quarts of beers and hops all over my basement floor, I don't see it being at peak for long.

Lets just say that was a Sat night I won't soon forget.

Rule #7: Cold Crash Before Transfer= No Hops in Suspension

 

[Loud Brewing]

I have recently learned you MUST cold crash these heavily dry hopped neipas especially if you want to do a closed transfer. After talking to a member here (thanks u/cooper) he recomended trying a c02 filled bag/balloon to avoid suck back. I used a vacum seal bag and it worked like a charm, minimal oxy exposure and complete hop fall during crash.
The beer pictured below has 10oz of hops in 5gal batch and was transfered from fermonster to keg using pressure through ball locks.

 

[ttuato]

This is off topic, but I must make a note. Maybe some have brought this up in the thread already, but even if so, I think it bears repeating lest you have a Sat night like me.

If you are going to be dry hopping with 8 oz of hops, don't be like me, put them in a bag or a stainless mesh tube. I oxygenated the crap out of 5 gallons over the course of 2.5 hours as I assembled and disassembled clogged poppits and QDs when transferring to the keg. I'm talking about 20+ times. I'm not ready to say the batch is ruined, but between me blowing out the tubing (with my mouth), the oxygenation, the quarts of beers and hops all over my basement floor, I don't see it being at peak for long.

Lets just say that was a Sat night I won't soon forget.

dissolve half a tab campden in some distilled water then put it back in the keg. Let it scavenge some of the oxygen for you.

 

[couchsending]

Cold crashing is an absolute must! I don’t think you need to go crazy cold, I’ve had great luck with 45 for a day or two.. I always throw hops in loose and have done as much as 12oz I think without clogs.. I definitely dump as much or it as possible before transferring though.

 

[SRJHops]

Cool! I just did it. I picked light and hoppy, though. What is the thinking for light and malty?

For my current grain bill, for light and hoppy, I would need to add 1.5 tsp gypsum, .5 tsp Epsom Salt, and .25 tsp Calcium Chloride to the brewing water.

What is HCO? The target is 0, and the actual is 62, but I don't see a way to lower it. Do I need to worry about it?

Oh, I get it now. The dropdown water profiles on that water calculator don't really have a NEIPA profile -- the closest might be light and malty.

The light and hoppy profile is probably best for a West Coast IPA, where gypsum/higher sulfate makes the hops "pop" more. My guess is there's already so much hops in a NEIPA that trying to add balance with more malty (sweeter) profile makes some sense?

Though personally, I like the idea of more hops flavor, even if it comes at the expense of some sweetness and/or softness. (I've always been much more interested in flavor than softness or cloudiness in my NEIPA's.)

Now that I better understand water, I am seeing that for NEIPA's, a lot of people are trying to increase the chloride to sulfate ratio. I am seeing things like 150 ppm Chloride to 75 ppm Sulfate for NEIPA'S.

I think I will give 150 Chloride to 100 sulfate a try... then maybe reverse that for the next time..

 

[tld6008]

Oh, I get it now. The dropdown water profiles on that water calculator don't really have a NEIPA profile -- the closest might be light and malty.

The light and hoppy profile is probably best for a West Coast IPA, where gypsum/higher sulfate makes the hops "pop" more. My guess is there's already so much hops in a NEIPA that trying to add balance with more malty (sweeter) profile makes some sense?

Though personally, I like the idea of more hops flavor, even if it comes at the expense of some sweetness and/or softness. (I've always been much more interested in flavor than softness or cloudiness in my NEIPA's.)

Now that I better understand water, I am seeing that for NEIPA's, a lot of people are trying to increase the chloride to sulfate ratio. I am seeing things like 150 ppm Chloride to 75 ppm Sulfate for NEIPA'S.

I think I will give 150 Chloride to 100 sulfate a try... then maybe reverse that for the next time..

Have you read the OPs thorough discussion on this style? If so you might want to review it again as it seems like your are looking for what he has already provided.
No offense intended.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost...postcount=1418
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-146#post-8203827

 

[troglodytes]

Rule #7: Cold Crash Before Transfer= No Hops in Suspension

Oh, I cold crashed. That didn't help.

 

[SRJHops]

Have you read the OPs thorough discussion on this style? If so you might want to review it again as it seems like your are looking for what he has already provided.
No offense intended.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost...postcount=1418
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-146#post-8203827

None taken. Yes, good stuff in the OP's post, which I did review. Don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm curious what others think. The OP provided a bunch of different iterations, from high sulfate/low chloride, to the reverse, to balanced, etc.

There are also a lot of different ppm levels I've seen (such as 250 ppm Chloride), so it seems like an area where people might have some opinions to share, which is always interesting...

 

[anteater8]

I have recently learned you MUST cold crash these heavily dry hopped neipas especially if you want to do a closed transfer. After talking to a member here (thanks u/cooper) he recomended trying a c02 filled bag/balloon to avoid suck back. I used a vacum seal bag and it worked like a charm, minimal oxy exposure and complete hop fall during crash.
The beer pictured below has 10oz of hops in 5gal batch and was transfered from fermonster to keg using pressure through ball locks.

View attachment 613495 View attachment 613496

I think the balloon method of limiting oxygen suck back during cold crash makes a lot of sense. I actually just bought a 25 pack of mylar balloons on Amazon for $10 and will using one when I cold crash my next IPA. Even with an auto-siphon filter, and letting the carboy settle on my counter for a few days, I was getting a decent amount of hop and yeast matter in my keg.

 

[RTHP99]

Cold Brew NEIPA. 3lbs each Golden Light/Wheat dme. 1oz Citra/Ekuanot cryo each. 1oz regular Simcoe. Chemicals. Omega DIPA/Connan and 05 added. All added cold, 65F. Brewed in a bucket and xfered to keg while purging day 6. No dry hops. Drink fast before anything changes.View attachment 613026

Sounds interesting and looks good. What is “chemicals”? Any water treatment? How does the beer taste?

 

[GnenieGone]

Sounds interesting and looks good. What is “chemicals”? Any water treatment? How does the beer taste?

About 1/4tsp Gypsum. 1/2tsp Calcium Chroide. 1ml Lactic Acid.

Ok...but as most of my NEIPAs...think diacetyl is coming around. Grains for a WCIPA.

 

[tld6008]

I think the balloon method of limiting oxygen suck back during cold crash makes a lot of sense. I actually just bought a 25 pack of mylar balloons on Amazon for $10 and will using one when I cold crash my next IPA. Even with an auto-siphon filter, and letting the carboy settle on my counter for a few days, I was getting a decent amount of hop and yeast matter in my keg.

I use a plastic bag that Walmart has in the produce section they are very light weight and work great plus they are free. This works very well for me, the bag is nearly deflated when I get down to 45 degrees. I have never had a plugged keg valve since I started cold crashing and I have not had an oxidation issue since using the CO2 bag during chill down. Actually the only oxidation issue I have had brewing NEIPAs was when I bottled them.