Great interview with Henry from Monkish to be found here, with the first half talking a lot about the processes he uses for creating his ipas.
It's mainly interesting because the high Cl-SO4 ratio and the dry-hopping during fermentation don't seem to be that important as we all think.
Also nice to hear that his NEIPAs take 30 days from brewing before they are released in cans, mainly because of stability reasons it seems.
Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.
And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.
That's interesting. Is there any insight to the pressure and temp he dry hops at?Yeah, that was intriguing. They do not dry hop during fermentation. They only dry hop after fermentation and diacetyl rest is done. And they dry hop under pressure.
And Henry was super high on the Galaxy/Citra combo to get less harsh flavors.
Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.
wow, really?! I was going to ask. They seem like they weren't into most IPAs, but then they made some NEIPA style ones and are now famous. Has anyone had their beers? I guess that answers that question. I am wondering if even if you add the hops after fermentation is basically done if you still get biotransformation? The hop flavor seems so different between a beer that has been in contact with hops with yeast at room temp vs a beer that has hops in it at cold temps.
I agree, I fly out of lax every month, I stop at monkish every time now. I am blown away with their beers. Makes for a great red eye.Definitely interesting. Having had their beers they are definitely in the top handful of NEIPAs along side Triple Crossing, Aslin, Other Half, etc.. Might have to give that method a try.
The Mosher interview was by far more interesting to me. I don't know how much of it is BS though. He said he is using like 50% flaked grains in his NEIPA-style beers. I could see it, but I haven't tried it. I've never really thought I could tell a difference b/w beers brewed with like 15% or less flaked grains vs just 2-row (maybe color), but I could see getting a lot of creaminess from 50% flaked wheat and 50% 2-row. Interested to try it out.
I was really surprised when he talked about using oak during fermentation to get vanilla taste.
I believe he said 8lbs/bbl was the most they had done and that was for a Triple NEIPA. Thought he said usually they do 4-5lbs/bbl.Dang! Mosher said 8 lbs/barrel! I've never added that much! 4 oz/gal by my estimate!
yeah, fascinating. i wonder if the character is different from just adding vanilla extract. don’t want any wood flavor for sure. wood can make beer super creamy though.
I'm not sure overnight in wine will do a lot of sanitising, but it won't hurt I guess.
That's interesting. Is there any insight to the pressure and temp he dry hops at?
My most recent process has been to keg at ~1.020, usually day 3. I open the top of keg and fill up my keg the "old school" way with a hose attached to my spigot. When the keg is full I seal the lid with a burst of CO2 and purge 5 times. I wrap the keg with my ferm heater and keep it around 70f for 10 days. Place in keezer and wait for an open tap.I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?
I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?
My most recent process has been to keg at ~1.020, usually day 3. I open the top of keg and fill up my keg the "old school" way with a hose attached to my spigot. When the keg is full I seal the lid with a burst of CO2 and purge 5 times. I wrap the keg with my ferm heater and keep it around 70f for 10 days. Place in keezer and wait for an open tap.
My reasoning is that any oxygen picked up after transfer will be scavenged. I don't spund because with ~6 pts left I don't feel the need to have one.
I did closed transfers under pressure using a BMB. You do need to keep a hand in the lid, but 1-2 psi does work. Use a lid with two holes. Metal racking cane in one hole, with tubing attached to keg quick disconnect. In other hole, you put a hollow rubber bung. Stick a MFLto hose barb in the bung, and attach your C02 line to it. Voila.I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?
I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?
I did closed transfers under pressure using a BMB. You do need to keep a hand in the lid, but 1-2 psi does work. Use a lid with two holes. Metal racking cane in one hole, with tubing attached to keg quick disconnect. In other hole, you put a hollow rubber bung. Stick a MFLto hose barb in the bung, and attach your C02 line to it. Voila.
I did it probably 8+ times. I did tend to combine the old white collars with the new rubber gaskets, which helped keep it more airtight, but mot perfect.So my previous setup might have worked if I put my hand on the lid of the BMB? I'll give that a try regardless if I spund.
I soak my dry hops for 7 days with 6 ounces per 5 gallons. Trust me there is no reason to dry hop in the keg. The beer comes out cloudy, dank, juicy and delicious.I had trouble once with foamy pours which had some hop material in the poppet. I tried reversing with gas on the out post, but wound up tearing it off clearing the blockage and poured a beer immediately.
I use them as well, mine are plastic and have spigots. I've shoved a 1/4 airhose down the center of the three piece air lock and flow 1psi. Then I open spigot which has a line attached that goes to the keg.I have big mouth fermenters (and love them) and attempted to push the beer into my kegs with CO2 but the lids don't hold enough pressure for me to do that. So I was forced to use an auto-syphon to transfer the beer. How many are getting great results using an auto-syphon?
I'm considering spunding instead though. Can someone give me their process or throw me a link to one?
Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been monitoring on these 14day work weeks. So the short answer is this....2day fermentation dry hop, purging CO2 during cold crash and during closed transfer/gravity to keg (PITA) none..nada...no diacetyl and coloring was good.Hey I was following the thread a while back and saw you'd been having multiple dumpers due to O2 and diacetyl you thought. How's that issue going? I only ask as it seemed crazy to me. I've never had any issue with oxygenation in this style and I'm not particularly manic about limiting it, plus ferment in crappy buckets... Drinking one now in fact.
Can't say I've ever noticed diacetyl either although some brown malty ones perhaps had a hint but might have been the cara.
It's hard though identifying things without an objective rule. I have a problem that comes up now and again and it's a bugger pinning down, so I was interested if your problem found it's solution
I bought some Cryo hops and wanted to see what they would taste like in the keg. Is it necessary, probably not, but I liked the results.I soak my dry hops for 7 days with 6 ounces per 5 gallons. Trust me there is no reason to dry hop in the keg. The beer comes out cloudy, dank, juicy and delicious.
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Has anyone ever tried adding some distilled hop oil to the fermenter at high krausen?
https://www.morebeer.com/products/distilled-hop-oil-el-dorado-1-ml.html
A friend bought one of the el dorado ones and added it directly to a keg. He said it made his beer taste very floral and perfumey. I'm guessing it is maybe the geraniol and other compounds that are usually biotransformed into linalool and other more tasty compounds by the yeast. If the yeast could work on those oils it might be a good way to add a huge amount of hop flavor without all of the vegetable matter or as a supplement to other pellet hops.
Oh I was just wondering since you mentioned hops clogging up the keg poppet. I've had that happen to me and ever since I avoid adding hops to my kegs.I bought some Cryo hops and wanted to see what they would taste like in the keg. Is it necessary, probably not, but I liked the results.
Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been monitoring on these 14day work weeks. So the short answer is this....2day fermentation dry hop, purging CO2 during cold crash and during closed transfer/gravity to keg (PITA) none..nada...no diacetyl and coloring was good.
Did another batch with DH at day 2 as before but only kept a purge in the keg doing xferring to keg. Sure enough diacetyl.
I have to do the closed loop thing do get it to work. After the 60K in home improvements, then the pool and hot tub installed will relax with another attempt.
Hope that clearifies...closed loop transfers appear to be a must with high hopped beers. Any other style I don't have this problem.
I'm sure you've probably given this some thought already, but figured I'd throw out a few ideas to consider:
Did you also cold crash the beer that had diacetyl, and if so, was it done under CO2 pressure? How long did you give each beer at fermentation temperature before cold crashing?
I'm curious to find out what is happening, since I've seen you mention this issue a few times and the possibility that closed transfer vs. pushing with co2 to a purged keg could be causing such a difference is something I'd probably never think of.
I've done it both ways myself - I usually favor keg-to-keg closed transfer and spunding at the end of fermentation, but I use my Speidel fermenter when I want to make sure I get a full 5 gallons of beer for a party or something. In both cases, I try to cold crash around day 10-12 (under CO2 with the Speidel, if I'm using a keg, it's already pressurized from fermentation so I just disconnect the spunding valve and leave it sealed until transfer). I haven't noticed much difference either way, other than the keg-to-keg closed transfer beer is carbonated and ready to drink a couple days sooner since it's taken care of during fermentation.
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