This is turning out incredible! Tropical galore! FG was really high, 1.022 but the sweetness goes well for sure. No diacetyl.
Yep! The dry hops were Cryo Hops so only added 1oz each. I use 100% RO and use Yellow Balanced profile on BrewNwater.
Just put 1 oz. Citra/ .5 oz. mosaic/ .5 oz. simcoe (all YCH Cryohops) into the dry hop keg on day 11. I'll report back next week
Right on! Mind sharing a few more specs with me? OG, FG, ferm temp? What temp did you whirlpool at? What day did you Dry-Hop on?
Brewing with a new hop combination tomorrow. Zythos and HBC 438. Also trying a new yeast, A24. Interested to see how this one turns out.
I ve only done them in 2nd dryhop. Powerful fruity aroma. Flavor about the same. Much less trub.Only been in serving keg for week and a half though and its getting better every dayHow'd the cryo's work out for you in the dry hop? I have some on deck and curious to hear about your process and how it all worked out flavor wise too!
Looooooong time lurker/reader, and I want to thank everyone for the awesome discussion. Here's mine... not exactly to recipe but I've taken a lot of the experiences and learnings from this thread.
This is an El Dorado hopped IPA. 70ish IBU's (as if), clocking in at 6.1% ABV. Cheers!
Is it Single hopped with El Dorado? If so, can you describe the flavor of El Dorado by itself? Does it stand up, or would it be better combined with something else?
Nice lil leakage here. Cloudwater producing probably the best NEIPA and DIPA`s in the UK.
I'm pretty sure my second dry hop went bad on me in the freezer. I vacuum sealed and put it in the freezer with in 15 minutes of opening the package. All other hops where great so I'm not sure what happened there. Anyways, went I put the keg hop in, I got this onion-y/earthy note that definitely wasn't there with the other additions.
11.7% Golden Naked Oats? Seems like folks have always advised against that high off a % for GNO or sweet/crystal malts at in NEIPA's. I wonder how that tastes
I have had similar issues with bad hops. I made several NE IPA's lately, some coming out terrible - oniony/harsh. Reviewing my notes I figured out they all had Amarillo hops. It seems I got a bad pound of Amarillo. I avoided them in my latest, and got great flavor again!. I wish I new how to tell, because they don't smell bad.
OK, so I also don't want to sift 450+ pages...
In a nutshell, what is making the cloudiness?
Is it simply proteins from all that wheat malt? Are you skipping kettle finings? Is anyone adding anything specifically to stabilize and suspend the haze...or is that maybe what glucans from the oats are doing?
-Flaked Oats
-Flaked Barley
-Flaked wheat
This is not correct. See Scott janish's post here: http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/
Polyphenols and proteins react to form the haze.
Nice lil leakage here. Cloudwater producing probably the best NEIPA and DIPA`s in the UK.
This is not correct. See Scott janish's post here: http://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/
Polyphenols and proteins react to form the haze.
Did your Amarillo smell good when you were using them? I mean, mine was pretty drastic. Like I said, I could definitely smell the undertones but I think I'm sensitive to off flavors and off smells than others. My first charges were amazing. All up until the last dry hop. I just wish I trusted my nose and threw the Mosaic in my freezer in instead...
I think Scott and others, through research and experimentation, are closing in on the cause, but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. I am still waiting for a definitive, science backed answer to this question and trying a lot of the things folks are suggesting in my brewery. People are doing/saying lots of different things they believe are contributing to the cause. Some say it is the yeast or a combination of yeast and hops. Others claim adjuncts like wheat, flour, oats. Others definitely add adjuncts into this style of beer...Tired Hands, for instance, is purported to add apple pectin to their beers. Still others are saying it is a combination of things: different yeasts at different temps/stages of fermentation, fermentation or mash temperatures, and other process related changes in combination with ingredients that is causing the effect. I find it interesting that in my experiences it has been easy to create a cloudy beer, but a lot harder to keep the oils in suspension for more than days/weeks. I am getting to the point where I can keep a keg hazy until it kicks, but I have changed so many things I cannot point to a single thing that did the trick...
One thing I would point out is that the search and research for how to brew a good NEIPA has really helped my brewing. Things I believe have contributed are yeast (1318 and 007), adjuncts (wheat and oats, have some apple pectin but have not brewed with it yet), fermentation under pressure in a closed system, whirlpooling with no kettle additions other than a small bittering charge, dry hopping during active fermentation, LODO techniques on the cold side, etc. Not sure if one of these, all of these, or none of these is making my NEIPA taste/smell better and stay turbid for longer but I believe all have helped me brew better beer that stays fresh longer with a better shelf life.
I still am trying to get my head around the concept of oxidized polyphenols from hops causing haze, because they also cause strong flavors that are not pleasant or present in the high quality NEIPAs I have purchased from Tree House, Trillium, etc. nor are they in the beers I brew. In other words, how is the thing that causes an IPA to taste like ass AND creating the permanent NEIPA haze related and what are we doing to get the latter but not the former?
I agree with this. The flaked grains themselves are not enough to create the haze. I don't know that anyone has totally nailed it down yet..... but, I think the leading candidate is an interaction of hop polyphenols with protein during active fermentation.... that is what likely creates the haze. If it is "murky" - that is yeast and possibly hop material in addition to the haze.
I agree with this mostly Brau - it's from the behavior of the yeast, but I have to disagree about the active fermentation part being necessary.
To be clear - I use exclusively 1318, so my experience is from this yeast. I made your blonde ale - 60 min and 30min hops only. But I split the batch it two secondaries. I dry hoped only one of the with 1oz Citra, 1oz Cascade (equiv of 4oz/5gl). I added the dry hop on about day 15 - and only let it sit 2 days prior to cold crashing and kegging.
The straight blonde ale came out relatively clear. Slightly hazy due to some flakes in the grist as you would expect. But the dry hopped one came out down right cloudy (and delicious). Looked like a typical cloudy NE IPA.
So dry hopping long after active fermentation, with 1318 at least, causes the haze/cloudiness.
One additional note. I've also split the batch in the primary, fermenting one with 1318, and the other with Wyeast Yorkshire ale yeast. The 1318 again came out cloudy, the Yorkshire came out much clearer.
Additionally, 1318 seems to take on a whole different taste when heavily hopped. The Yorkshire just came out hoppier, but with 1318 it seems to react somehow and add a whole citrusy zesty taste and aroma - a whole additional dimension.
This is my observations at least.
I think Scott and others, through research and experimentation, are closing in on the cause, but I don't think anyone knows for sure yet. I am still waiting for a definitive, science backed answer to this question and trying a lot of the things folks are suggesting in my brewery. People are doing/saying lots of different things they believe are contributing to the cause. Some say it is the yeast or a combination of yeast and hops. Others claim adjuncts like wheat, flour, oats. Others definitely add adjuncts into this style of beer...Tired Hands, for instance, is purported to add apple pectin to their beers. Still others are saying it is a combination of things: different yeasts at different temps/stages of fermentation, fermentation or mash temperatures, and other process related changes in combination with ingredients that is causing the effect. I find it interesting that in my experiences it has been easy to create a cloudy beer, but a lot harder to keep the oils in suspension for more than days/weeks. I am getting to the point where I can keep a keg hazy until it kicks, but I have changed so many things I cannot point to a single thing that did the trick...
One thing I would point out is that the search and research for how to brew a good NEIPA has really helped my brewing. Things I believe have contributed are yeast (1318 and 007), adjuncts (wheat and oats, have some apple pectin but have not brewed with it yet), fermentation under pressure in a closed system, whirlpooling with no kettle additions other than a small bittering charge, dry hopping during active fermentation, LODO techniques on the cold side, etc. Not sure if one of these, all of these, or none of these is making my NEIPA taste/smell better and stay turbid for longer but I believe all have helped me brew better beer that stays fresh longer with a better shelf life.
I still am trying to get my head around the concept of oxidized polyphenols from hops causing haze, because they also cause strong flavors that are not pleasant or present in the high quality NEIPAs I have purchased from Tree House, Trillium, etc. nor are they in the beers I brew. In other words, how is the thing that causes an IPA to taste like ass AND creating the permanent NEIPA haze related and what are we doing to get the latter but not the former?
For those into water chemistry, how much sodium is too much? At what point do you starting getting a "salty" beer? I was reading some posts on another site and someone getting good results said part of their focus was getting hardness as low as possible (i.e. cutting back on Ca and Mg).
I was thinking of trying a 100 Cl, 50 SO4 profile for my next NEIPA but in order to get that and minimize Ca and Mg, I end up with 65 Na and 12.6 Mg and a hardness of 50. Is that beer going to be salty tasting?
Are there other sources of Cl and SO4 besides the usual suspects (NaCl, CaCl, MgCl, CaSO4, MgSO4)?
I'm starting with distilled water so I'm assuming no appreciable minerals pre-treatment.
Enter your email address to join: