I used magnum for mine. As it's what I had.
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
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I used magnum for mine. As it's what I had.
Braufessor - Thanks so much for this recipe! I made one based on your recipe and it came out fantastic. There were a few hiccups but it came out great. Here was my recipe:
NEXT IPA/Pale Ale
OG 1.060
FG 1.014
~SRM 4.72
ABV 6.04
% Grain lbs
42.86% Golden Promise 6 lbs
42.86% 2 row 6 lbs
10.71% American White Wheat 1.5 lbs
3.57% flaked barley 0.5 lbs
1.00 14
oz NEW @
0.75 CTZ 60
1 Citra 10
1 Amarillo 10
0.5 Centennial FO
2 Citra FO
1.5 Amarillo FO
2 Citra KegHop
0.5 Centennial KegHop
1.5 Amarillo KegHop
10.75
yeast - OMEGA DIPA
I didn't mess with my water yet - I will soon. Baby steps. But I'm really happy with this one. I used pellet hops in my keg which really affected the color and haziness of the beer but I don't mind it.
LakeBrewer101
New Member
No experience with Summit but I have whirlpooled for an hour two starting at two different temps. One was at flame out and the other was at 140 degrees. I found the flame out whirlpool to give more of a fruity hop flavor.
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I opened a bottle tonight. It's only been 3 days so it's not really carb'd, but i'm impatient beyond belief. Holy crap it's good. Smooth, crazy aromatic, amazing taste, and then a bit more than you want of hop bitter on the back end (double the 60 minute hop addition mistake) but it actually works. i think the next one I'll go 75% of what I did for 60 minute addition and it should be awesome.
Going to brew another batch this weekend, and then one more in 2 weeks to give to my soon to be brother in law for his wedding present late in may.
Again, thank you to everyone in this thread. I can't wait to play with this recipe and make some variations.
Going to brew another batch this weekend, and then one more in 2 weeks to give to my soon to be brother in law for his wedding present late in may.
Again, thank you to everyone in this thread. I can't wait to play with this recipe and make some variations.
OP
OP
Yep - that is the key... find a good starting point and start playing with it to your own tastes. Lots of batches of the same beer, over and over.
I am super happy with my last batch - Citra/Columbus. Going to brew it again this weekend. I have a Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy in the fermenter...... thinking I will do another one this weekend too..... Either all Citra or Citra/Mosaic maybe.
This was my first time using 1332 northwest ale yeast and I added the entire 6 oz dry hop charge on day 6, as fermentation showed sings of slowing way down. I did not expect it to take so long and the airlock still shows signs of fermentation as it is down to 1.014 from 1.060. Gravity sample tasted great but I feel like I lost some aroma as I wasn't expecting the yeast to keep working so long. Therefore, added another ounce each of citra, mosaic, Galaxy to dry hop for an additional 3 days before I crash on Saturday and keg on Sunday as I brew another batch of this. Showing a buddy the brewing ropes and he wants to make a pineapple ipa. Thought this hop combo would work well with pineapple so I'm brewing it again with 05 to work quicker.
100% sold on this methodology after brewing your recipe. At this point I have a list of hop combos for my next 8 brews or so...
Nelson/Mosaic/Galaxy (tropical)
Simcoe/Galaxy (passion fruit)
Citra/Amarillo (citrus & stone fruit)
Amarillo/Azacca/El Dorado (peach & mango)
Citra/Azacca/Nelson (tropical citrus white wine)
Citra/Mosaic/Nelson (too many fruits to name)
Citra/Galaxy/Amarillo (passion fruit & peach)
Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo (berry, tropical, citrus)
So much work to do!
Been thinking about Citra/Colombus as well since Trillium uses that combo, what was your ratio?
OP
OP
Those all look like awesome combos..... got me thinking about a few of those too.
I went 2:1 Citra:Columbus in all 4 additions.
I brewed something very similar to the recipe on page one, only to a bit higher gravity (1.062) and with a different yeast (ECY10 - Old Newark Ale). Hops were Warrior for bittering and Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy as indicated in the original recipe
Pulled a pint last night after 48hrs at 30psi. Super hazy, very aromatic. I get the citrus, but there is also a unmistakable dank note to the aroma and flavor. Anyone ever get this from this late hop combo?
Also, I would have to say this is about as close to "hop juice" as one can get. Just really a touch of bready malt character that is quickly buried by all the hop flavor. Bitterness is a bit more aggressive than I would have thought from just 0.75oz of Warrior and the flame out addition.
How does this stack up to other's experience with this recipe?
Pulled a pint last night after 48hrs at 30psi. Super hazy, very aromatic. I get the citrus, but there is also a unmistakable dank note to the aroma and flavor. Anyone ever get this from this late hop combo?
Also, I would have to say this is about as close to "hop juice" as one can get. Just really a touch of bready malt character that is quickly buried by all the hop flavor. Bitterness is a bit more aggressive than I would have thought from just 0.75oz of Warrior and the flame out addition.
How does this stack up to other's experience with this recipe?
OP
OP
I think you can definitely get some "dankness" from this.... especially depending on your mosaic and galaxy hops. I have noticed some fairly significant differences in flavors from different sources of those hops. I have had Mosaic that comes across very "blueberry" like, and also had it come across much more dank.
Oooh, I've been interested in ECY10 for awhile. What were your thoughts?
A bit early to say, but it is fairly neutral. Difficult to pick up much yeast character under all those hops.
I will say it was a relatively difficult ferment. I pitched at 64F, let it free rise to 67F, and after week it was only down to 1.022. I had to rouse the yeast and bump up the temp to 70F to get it to finish about 4 days later (1.013). Not used to having to actively manage like that.
Used 18% oats in this one. Since I bottle, everything kind of falls out so at the end I give the bottle a little swirl and dump it all in.
This turned out pretty well. Kind of a Maine Beer Dinner pale ale clone minus the Simcoe. I wish I had the Simcoe. This one also came across pretty dry. I believe I super over pitched and the 1318 attenuated 80%ish.
For my next brew I wanna make sure I get that residual sweetness. I'm debating mashing higher (this one was at 152* using only 2-row and oats) or trying to find a sub for honey malt since I don't have any available. I know honey malt is such a unique flavor. Has anyone paired two crystal malts together and got a sweetness close to it? I believe I have some caramel 10, 40 and 120 on hand and might pair them up and see what I get. Do a little taste test with the grain?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461021131.196469.jpg
This turned out pretty well. Kind of a Maine Beer Dinner pale ale clone minus the Simcoe. I wish I had the Simcoe. This one also came across pretty dry. I believe I super over pitched and the 1318 attenuated 80%ish.
For my next brew I wanna make sure I get that residual sweetness. I'm debating mashing higher (this one was at 152* using only 2-row and oats) or trying to find a sub for honey malt since I don't have any available. I know honey malt is such a unique flavor. Has anyone paired two crystal malts together and got a sweetness close to it? I believe I have some caramel 10, 40 and 120 on hand and might pair them up and see what I get. Do a little taste test with the grain?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461021131.196469.jpg
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
I do .25 of c120 and .75 of c20 for a 10g batch, no honey malt and it adds a nice touch.
milldoggy
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
Nice looking beer. I have used C-10 and C-35 in a beer (1/4 pound of each in 6 gallon batch). It worked out nice. I do prefer to have a bit of the honey malt though.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Do you think there is an advantage to doing a two-stage dry hop with this beer or hoppy beers in general? Why not just add all of the dry hops to the primary or add them all to a dry hopping keg? Why two steps? Is this related to the Stan Hieronymus discussion of biotransformation vs. pure hop oil extraction with less yeast in suspension?
OP
OP
Yes - the idea of some of the yeast/hop interactions is something I think is interesting. I cannot say for sure if it is a "real thing" or not..... but, I did it, I liked the results, I continue to do it.
Further - lots of brewers/Breweries talk about multiple dry hop additions..... Call it follow the leader - but, again, I tried it, liked it, kept doing it.
The other aspect of this is simply practical - dumping 6 ounces of hops in the primary makes for a messy transfer and serving keg full of hop particulate. Similarly, dumping all 6 ounces into the dry hop keg invites a much greater chance of plugging up jumping it to serving keg. This last reason is probably one of the main reasons I keep doing this - it fits with my system and my process.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
CTZ comes across as pretty dank to my taste. it works best when paired with other hops like Simcoe or Citra for example.
Go light on the Apollo at first, maybe just in the whirlpool? I over-did it in keg hopping, and it was NOT to my liking, reminded me of a parmesan baked potato (maybe it was partially due to the wet hops in the batch not mixing well with it?)
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Interesting on the Citra/CTZ. I've always thought that CTZ can be paired with any American hop for a great combo. I don't know why, but it is just great with other hops. Have you noticed any extreme variablility in the CTZ depending on crop year? I feel like it is sometimes more harsh/intense than others. Citra/CTZ/Simcoe is another great combination.
I am also wondering about a Eureka! combination that might work after making a single-hop Eureka! IPA recently. It taste like pure mango to me, including the piney flavor mango has. I think maybe a Eureka!/Citra/(some other tropical hop) combo would be the bomb!
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Crystal 20L gives a nice fullness, sweetness and head retention in beer. I've used it up to like 15ish%, and it makes a nice IPA. It isn't too sweet but makes it full tasting.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. You seem to be making exactly the beers you want to be with your process/method, so fine tweaks are probably mostly what you want to do at this point.
I think with your strong base of experience and repeated attempts at this basic recipe, you could shed a lot of light on various process changes for us if you chose to as well though. For example, if you cut back on the dry hop and increased the whirlpool or vice versa, it would be pretty interesting to see how you perceive it changing the beer. there are other changes to make as well. Your changes in hop type are very instructive though as well.
OP
OP
Ha- just got a pound of Eureka in the mail a couple days ago(along with a couple more pounds of columbus). A local brewery made a beer with Eureka and it was great. I am already thinking about getting it in a batch.
I do agree that Columbus can come off as harsh depending on year/source/ etc. Some of that (unfortunately) can really be hit and miss for us as home brewers.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Yes, the CTZ is variable I think. I wish I could tell by the aroma of the hops in the bag alone. I will have to see if I can predict it somehow. I thought maybe using a harsher batch in the whirlpool would be a good solution as well, as the whirlpool hops seem to be much more muted in the final beer. However, it also seems the whirlpool hops are needed to round out the flavor, so why not use less than ideal batches of hops for whirlpooling?
You will find the Eureka! to be very much like mango I think. It is also a VERY intense hop. I think it is the first hop that I have found that is as intense as Citra, maybe even more-so. Of course, that depends on the crop year/oil content of the particular crop I suppose. I got mine from Nikobrew a few months ago.
OP
OP
For sure...... Hoping to devote a big chunk of my summer brewing to some of what you mentioned. This time of year is just nuts for me - school year finishing up and I coach Track as well.... so, I am in survival-brewing mode. Playing with hop amounts, additions, etc. is one thing I do want to play around with. Want to play with pH a bit more. #1 experiment on my agenda though..... With some of the latest "debate" about NE IPA vs. West Coast IPA..... I want to try to brew this beer in two different ways - one as it is in this thread, and then transform it into a west coast, clear, bright, sulfate centered IPA and just compare them head-to-head. Lots of banter about the fact that NE IPA's would be better if they were "brewed right." Curious to see for myself.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
I just listened to a podcast of the Jamil show recently after at least 1 or 2 years away from the the BN (for whatever reason.) I listened to the most recent IPA episode. I love Jamil so much, and he has helped me immensely as a brewer, but I felt he came off as very judgmental about IPA. he seemed to indicate that an IPA could only be "hazy" if not perfectly clear. If it is anything more than that he seemed to feel that it was way out of style, and seemed so put off by it. I guess that may be the case for the BJCP, but i wonder if he has ever tried a NE IPA at its peak. It is a truly incredible experience that I can't help but believe would convince him that this is a unique and fully valid style all on its own. I don't really care if he likes it at the end of the day, but I have a lot of respect for him and his opinions, so I found it disappointing to tune back in to find all of the judgment, or what I perceived to be judgment.
Regarding your WC vs. NE changes, I truly love a hybrid approach on this. I do what I consider WC IPA with 250 PPPM gypsum and low chloride in my brewing liquor but also serve the final product rather cloudy from the keg, dripping with fresh dry hop and find it to be absolutely divine. I don't see how the cloudiness has any relevance if it is a delicious beer.
It would be very instructive to see if changes in clarity, hop variety and sulfate make the two styles incompatible. If you shift over to less fruity hops and yeast, does it make the WC style shine more and vice versa for the NE style?
I would find that to be very interesting, as I am sure most on this thread would. Good luck with the end of the academic year!
mccabedoug
Well-Known Member
I brewed up an AG batch of this over the weekend:
9 lb 2 row
1 lb wheat
0.5 lb flaked oats
0.5 lb flaked barley
0.5 lb flaked wheat
60 min: 0.25 oz Northern Brewer (10%; had this lying around)
0 min: 1 oz each FF, Summit, Citra
After cooling to 160: 1 oz each FF, Summit, Mosaic
Cool to 62, pitch Wyeast 1318, ferment at 62
I've been brewing for some time and have been AG for 7+ years. As I was watching this boil I asked myself: why am I boiling this for 60 min? The 60-90 boil is done to isomerize the alpha acid hops for bittering, ensure sterile wort, generate hot break, reduce wort volume to hit target OG, and sometimes (depending upon the style) to promote Maillard reactions for those styles that benefit from melandoins and carmelization.
Much of this does not apply to this style since most of the desired attributes of this beer come AFTER the boil.
For this particular beer, why can't I simply mash with 2 quarts less water, batch sparge with 2 quarts less water (too compensate for shorter boil time) add 1 oz of high AA hops for bittering (use any of high AA aroma hops we are using here) and boil for only 15 min? I will get my hop break, wort will be sterile, there are plenty of high AA late addition hops to ensure sufficient bitterness (even though this is NOT a bitter beer), and I believe I can compensate for the different volumes as a result of 45 min less boiling.
With my setup, the water/grain ratio is 1.4. Two quarts less mash and sparge volumes still leaves me at 1.2.
Please tell me I must be missing something so I don't do this stupid idea the next time I brew this beer.......
9 lb 2 row
1 lb wheat
0.5 lb flaked oats
0.5 lb flaked barley
0.5 lb flaked wheat
60 min: 0.25 oz Northern Brewer (10%; had this lying around)
0 min: 1 oz each FF, Summit, Citra
After cooling to 160: 1 oz each FF, Summit, Mosaic
Cool to 62, pitch Wyeast 1318, ferment at 62
I've been brewing for some time and have been AG for 7+ years. As I was watching this boil I asked myself: why am I boiling this for 60 min? The 60-90 boil is done to isomerize the alpha acid hops for bittering, ensure sterile wort, generate hot break, reduce wort volume to hit target OG, and sometimes (depending upon the style) to promote Maillard reactions for those styles that benefit from melandoins and carmelization.
Much of this does not apply to this style since most of the desired attributes of this beer come AFTER the boil.
For this particular beer, why can't I simply mash with 2 quarts less water, batch sparge with 2 quarts less water (too compensate for shorter boil time) add 1 oz of high AA hops for bittering (use any of high AA aroma hops we are using here) and boil for only 15 min? I will get my hop break, wort will be sterile, there are plenty of high AA late addition hops to ensure sufficient bitterness (even though this is NOT a bitter beer), and I believe I can compensate for the different volumes as a result of 45 min less boiling.
With my setup, the water/grain ratio is 1.4. Two quarts less mash and sparge volumes still leaves me at 1.2.
Please tell me I must be missing something so I don't do this stupid idea the next time I brew this beer.......
OP
OP
Good question..... I cannot think of a single reason to boil this beer longer than say 30 minutes........
Definitely an interesting concept - would allow for less grain, less water, less boil time.... which would be nice to compensate for the longer time post boil with hop stand etc.
I guess the ONE thing I could think of as a possible issue is simply this - maybe it would not turn out/taste as good as a finished product? Not sure why it wouldn't. But, ultimately, that is the reason to do something or not do something - impact on finished beer as it tastes in the glass. Only way to find that out is to try it.
For whatever reason, some of the people who are famous in the homebrew world like Jamil or Gordon Strong, or Denny are dogmatic and fixed in their ways. I guess it makes some amount of sense, since they have spent years with people telling them that their interpretation of tons of different beer styles is the best. It makes no sense to me, since I view homebrewing as a constant opportunity for experimentation.
This is a generalization, and does not apply in all cases. But, it is a pattern that I have noticed. For this reason, I enjoy reading/listening to people like Tonsmire more than I enjoy listening/reading people like Jamil. I say, screw style - if it tastes good, that's all that matters.
NE IPAs like this taste great.
OP
OP
I don't have a problem with "brewing to style"..... there is a place for that. But, there is also a place for simply brewing beer you and friends love to drink. For me, it is this beer. If I don't brew it once a week, I will run out of it. I almost never have a keg that stays on tap for even 2 weeks or so.
I disagree with them when they generalize that "all (or almost all)" of these beers are the result of sloppy brewing, rushed brewing, etc. And, that they are flawed - not just in style, but in flavor. They seem (in general) to assert that many of these are poorly brewed, and even the ones that are good, would be much better if they were "turned into" more of a clear, crisp west coast IPA.....
For sure - there are some BAD NE IPA's out there - I have had them. But, there are also a ton of terrible west coast IPA's too. I love great examples of either.
I also think (and this is why I want to test it out) that taking a NE IPA and turning it into a West Coast IPA will NOT make it better. I think it will actually detract from it. I could absolutely be wrong on that.... time will tell, and that is why I want to test it out.
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What are you thinking of doing to "transform" it? Simply try to clear it? Different yeast? Different water profile?
Based on how much you change I'd wonder where the line of "it's just a different beer" exists.
Based on how much you change I'd wonder where the line of "it's just a different beer" exists.
OP
OP
I want to do as little as possible to change it..... some things I am initially thinking I will start with:
(Same grain, same hops, same yeast..... same mineral additions to the same water.)
* Lower pH by adding a bit more lactic acid. Not drastic. But, I find beers in the 5.30 to drop clearer and have better break in boil kettle if pH is closer to 5.30 as opposed to 5.40-5.45
* Probably cold crash.
* Possibly use gelatin to clear it.
Might switch to a more traditional higher sulfate/lower chloride mineral content.
I guess I see those as starting points and then go from there...
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Color me intrigued. When you do perform the experiment i'll be interested in the results.
ya gotta do the last one. Isn't the sulfate/chloride flip one of the main characteristics of the NE-IPA? Flipping it really should result in a different beer, shouldn't it?
Or am I being dogmatic?
OP
OP
ya gotta do the last one. Isn't the sulfate/chloride flip one of the main characteristics of the NE-IPA? Flipping it really should result in a different beer, shouldn't it?
Or am I being dogmatic?
yeah - it is part of what a west coast IPA is for sure. But, before I want to do that I want to address the hazy/clear aspect. That seems to be the sticker for a lot of people right off the bat - the beer "looks" like crap they say. Looks sloppy, unfinished... they never even get to the taste aspect.
I am curious if you can make a crystal clear version of this ( which may look appealing to some) without actually screwing up the flavor of it.... which is what actually matters. I think some of the critics are asserting that clearing the beer will actually not only make it look better..... they are saying it will make it taste better. I am curious about that. I am not so sure.
Projectfdw
Well-Known Member
Was hoping for some recipe critiques. Looking to do a northeast style IPA.
10# 2 row
1# flaked wheat
1# flaked oats
.75# carapils
Wyeast 1318 London 3
2 oz Amarillo @60
2 oz citra & 2 oz Amarillo whirlpool @ flameout when it cools to 170
3oz citra dry hop on day 5
3 oz simcoe dry hop in keg at day 14
Mash at 152
Og 1.063
Fg 1.017
Ibu 54
6%
2 SRM- this is low but with cloudiness I'm not sure it matters.
Going to use distilled water and add 4g gypsum, 11g calcium chloride and 6g Epsom salt.
Any advice or adjustments would be appreciated.
10# 2 row
1# flaked wheat
1# flaked oats
.75# carapils
Wyeast 1318 London 3
2 oz Amarillo @60
2 oz citra & 2 oz Amarillo whirlpool @ flameout when it cools to 170
3oz citra dry hop on day 5
3 oz simcoe dry hop in keg at day 14
Mash at 152
Og 1.063
Fg 1.017
Ibu 54
6%
2 SRM- this is low but with cloudiness I'm not sure it matters.
Going to use distilled water and add 4g gypsum, 11g calcium chloride and 6g Epsom salt.
Any advice or adjustments would be appreciated.
OP
OP
The only thing that really catches my eye is bitter addition of 2 ounces of amarillo..... I would probably use something like warrior in 3/4 - 1 ounce amount.
Not sure what those salt additions give you for sulfate and chloride #'s..... I prefer a 2:1 chloride over sulfate ratio. And, a pH of 5.4-5.45.
In general I think it looks good though.
Not sure what those salt additions give you for sulfate and chloride #'s..... I prefer a 2:1 chloride over sulfate ratio. And, a pH of 5.4-5.45.
In general I think it looks good though.
