New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Braufessor]

Braufessor, what's your method of forced carbonation of these? I'm typically doing 25 psi for two days then backing it off to 10 psi or so for another couple, but am guessing if this is about right the whole time. I'll be bottling my 4.8% Nelson/1318 and the 5.8% Citra/ESB beers on Thursday in time for my homebrew club meeting and they're both carbing up now.
Our club challenge this month is session beers under 5%, so we'll see if this can be scaled down a bit and still work.

Any tips for quick forced carbonation?

I tend to go 20-25psi for 1.5-2 days. Then back off to 10-12psi. I sample a little each day to make sure it does not get over carbed.

I have tried higher pressures, longer time at higher pressures, shaking, etc to speed things up.... but, to be honest, I have had hit and miss success with that and once the beer is over carbed, it is a PITA to get it back to where you want it. Sometimes it seems the beer never quite comes back to the way it should be. I tend to re on the side of caution.

 

[Braufessor]

I'm am fairly new to all grain. About 10 batches under my belt. My question is if I bump up the grain bill to make it a DIPA. Do I have to bump up the hops as well?

Have not done it myself..... but, I would bump the bittering up some for sure. I would think the late and dry hop additions would still be pretty good. Might consider something else during the boil maybe?? 15-30 minutes?

 

[sheikyerbouti]

Interested to hear your Citra/Columbus experiment.

I see you 12 days primary, 3 day secondary, how long in the keg till the flavor peaks?

My hoppy IPAs peak around week 6, I don't drink them sooner than that.

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but I did my first dry hop 3 days in and kegged on day 9. I've found the dry hop flavor, to me, drops hard after 1 week. 4 weeks...keg gone

 

[emr25]

Braufessor, could you go into a little more detail on your dry hopping / transferring / cold crashing process? Maybe step by step. I'd like to improve upon minimizing oxidation and want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

I plan to transfer from carboy to dry hopping keg under minimal CO2 pressure as described here.

http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html?m=1

Using the mesh screens technique for dry hopping in a keg and transferring to a serving keg as described here.

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html?m=1

Questions I have.

1) Do you cold crash before transferring from primary carboy to purged dry hopping keg? If not, do you just rack off what trub is already compacted knowing more will eventually settle out when the beer is cooled?

If so, do you let it warm back up to better interact with the dry hops? Do you cold crash the dry hop keg before transferring to the serving keg?

2) When and how do you add the dry hops to the dry hopping keg?

Thanks!

 

[arnobg]

Braufessor, could you go into a little more detail on your dry hopping / transferring / cold crashing process? Maybe step by step. I'd like to improve upon minimizing oxidation and want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

I plan to transfer from carboy to dry hopping keg under minimal CO2 pressure as described here.

http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html?m=1

Using the mesh screens technique for dry hopping in a keg and transferring to a serving keg as described here.

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html?m=1

Questions I have.

1) Do you cold crash before transferring from primary carboy to purged dry hopping keg? If not, do you just rack off what trub is already compacted knowing more will eventually settle out when the beer is cooled?

If so, do you let it warm back up to better interact with the dry hops? Do you cold crash the dry hop keg before transferring to the serving keg?

2) When and how do you add the dry hops to the dry hopping keg?

Thanks!

I asked on the last page or two about the dry hops and he said he throws them right in the keg since those filters are in the keg for the dip tube.

 

[emr25]

I asked on the last page or two about the dry hops and he said he throws them right in the keg since those filters are in the keg for the dip tube.

After the beer has been transferred into the keg? Meaning purge with StarSan / CO2, then transfer under CO2 pressure from carboy into keg, then open the keg lid to add the hops, then purge the headspace a few times again with CO2?

I'm just wondering the fine details, as it seems that in homebrewing there is no real way to completely eliminate O2 interaction but there are most likely certain procedures that work better than others.

 

[Braufessor]

Questions I have.

1) Do you cold crash before transferring from primary carboy to purged dry hopping keg? If not, do you just rack off what trub is already compacted knowing more will eventually settle out when the beer is cooled?

If so, do you let it warm back up to better interact with the dry hops? Do you cold crash the dry hop keg before transferring to the serving keg?

2) When and how do you add the dry hops to the dry hopping keg?

Thanks!

I almost never cold crash.

*Around day 10 I set fermenter on counter.
*Around day 12 or so.... I get dry hop keg ready. Like in link. Stainless mesh sleeve on dip tube (dip tube with 1 inch cut off) and bigger mesh tube around that.
*Fill keg with star san to the top. Put on lid.
*Push out star san with CO2.
*I use fermenters with spigots (SS Brew bucket or Bottling buckets).
*Section of tube in tub of star san for draining from fermenter to dry hop keg.
* Get #2 dry hop ready.
*Let pressure off keg, open lid, throw in hops (loose).
* Drain beer from fermenter to Keg. Set lid over opening, but not sealed back up to allow tubing to bottom of keg.
***This is not 100% oxygen free. However, with the keg 100% purged to start, beer flowing in - which pushes CO2 out during the <5 minute fill - it is likely very close to minimizing O2 exposure.
*This beer is transferring pretty clean even without cold crashing. Setting it up on counter a couple days before transfer helps to not stir anything up.
*When keg is filled, dunk lid in star san quick again, put in place, seal up.
*Purge keg with CO2, letting pressure through relief valve just to ensure no O2 in the small head space.
*Let it sit for 2 days. Set up on counter. Get serving keg ready - fill with star san.
*Push star san out with CO2.
*Do not open serving keg.
* Hook up liquid post to liquid post from dry hop keg to serving keg.
*Pull pressure relief on serving keg.
*Use Co2 to pus from dry hop keg to serving keg.
*The final beer is very clean. Most everything has settle out, and what has not is strained out by the double filter.
*Purge head space at the end of closed transfer.
*In fridge, hook up to CO2.

If I had problems with lots of trub, yeast, sediment, yeast... I would cold crash if needed. However - I am leaving trub behind in boil kettle (leaving almost a gallon in dead space in my kettle.) So, wort into fermenter is very clear and clean. I leave .5-.75 gallons of gunk behind in fermenter..... clean beer going into dry hop keg. And, whatever is there gets left behind with the filters keeping it out.

 

[emr25]

I almost never cold crash.

If I had problems with lots of trub, yeast, sediment, yeast... I would cold crash if needed. However - I am leaving trub behind in boil kettle (leaving almost a gallon in dead space in my kettle.) So, wort into fermenter is very clear and clean. I leave .5-.75 gallons of gunk behind in fermenter..... clean beer going into dry hop keg. And, whatever is there gets left behind with the filters keeping it out.

Awesome post, this is exactly what I was interested in knowing!

I'm only 3 batches into homebrewing, the NE IPA recipe here will be batch 4. So far we have been transferring everything from brew kettle to carboy. Mainly because we have an 8-gallon brew kettle, and starting the boil with about 7.5 gallons (about an inch from the top) means we only get about 5.5 to 6 gallons into the carboy after boil off, even with transferring everything.

After cold crashing (compacting as much as possible), this has netted us around 4.25 gallons (roughly) into the keg for each batch. My only concern with not cold crashing before transferring from primary would be reducing that down to under 4 gallons after trub loss and hop absorption in the dry hop keg. But my concern with cold crashing before the second dry hop is losing hop aroma and not letting the yeast finish up, so we'll have some decisions to make. Any reason not to cold crash, transfer to dry hop keg, then raise back to ~70* until the beer is transferred to the serving keg?

Thanks again, we will be doing some form of this for the next batch, assuming we get a 2nd keg before then!

 

[Bbeck8386]

I have a pound of citra, and a pound of mosaic on the way. Would Amarillo work in place of the galaxy if my lhbs doesn't have it in stock?

 

[Braufessor]

Awesome post, this is exactly what I was interested in knowing!

I'm only 3 batches into homebrewing, the NE IPA recipe here will be batch 4. So far we have been transferring everything from brew kettle to carboy. Mainly because we have an 8-gallon brew kettle, and starting the boil with about 7.5 gallons (about an inch from the top) means we only get about 5.5 to 6 gallons into the carboy after boil off, even with transferring everything.

After cold crashing (compacting as much as possible), this has netted us around 4.25 gallons (roughly) into the keg for each batch. My only concern with not cold crashing before transferring from primary would be reducing that down to under 4 gallons after trub loss and hop absorption in the dry hop keg. But my concern with cold crashing before the second dry hop is losing hop aroma and not letting the yeast finish up, so we'll have some decisions to make. Any reason not to cold crash, transfer to dry hop keg, then raise back to ~70* until the beer is transferred to the serving keg?

Thanks again, we will be doing some form of this for the next batch, assuming we get a 2nd keg before then!

I don't think the cold crashing will hurt the beer in the way of aroma or flavor. I don't do it because I don't want to mess with it, and I have a system that gets me 5 gallons of clean beer into the dry hop keg. I am still losing a quart or two from dry hop keg to serving keg.

 

[Braufessor]

I have a pound of citra, and a pound of mosaic on the way. Would Amarillo work in place of the galaxy if my lhbs doesn't have it in stock?

Yes - or, just go 1.5 ounces each of citra and mosaic for each addition - I do that often and it is a great combo.

 

[brewski09]

Any tips for quick forced carbonation?

Don't shake it for any reason, it just disturbs whatever sediment you may have.

http://www.homebrewsupply.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/carbonation_cart.png
Useful chart for temps and pressures to get your target volumes. Should only take a few days.

 

[rosscoh]

I finally brewed and kegged this fantastic beer. I followed everything as close as I could and it is hands down the best beer I've ever brewed, and probably top 10 beers I've ever tasted.

Thanks Braufessor for all your help and sharing this recipe, it has taken my brewing to the next level.
I also brewed a session version with Nelson and Amarillo that'll be kegged soon. Also planning a Double Galaxy based on this.

My mind has been blown that I can make this at home.

The beer looks a little dark. Did you follow the water adjustments as well? I know from experience that before I did water adjustments my beer always turned out to be darker then I expected due to high PH levels.

 

[KirkMN]

It looks like pineapple juice. The outdoor light in that picture makes it look a bit darker.
I used 100% RO water and adder to achieve Braufessors recommendations.

 

[Pyg]

Latest batch:View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459960827.300133.jpgmug:

Complete noob question:
What grain gives it that yellow colour?

 

[ruascott]

Awesome post, this is exactly what I was interested in knowing!

I'm only 3 batches into homebrewing, the NE IPA recipe here will be batch 4. So far we have been transferring everything from brew kettle to carboy. Mainly because we have an 8-gallon brew kettle, and starting the boil with about 7.5 gallons (about an inch from the top) means we only get about 5.5 to 6 gallons into the carboy after boil off, even with transferring everything.

After cold crashing (compacting as much as possible), this has netted us around 4.25 gallons (roughly) into the keg for each batch. My only concern with not cold crashing before transferring from primary would be reducing that down to under 4 gallons after trub loss and hop absorption in the dry hop keg. But my concern with cold crashing before the second dry hop is losing hop aroma and not letting the yeast finish up, so we'll have some decisions to make. Any reason not to cold crash, transfer to dry hop keg, then raise back to ~70* until the beer is transferred to the serving keg?

Thanks again, we will be doing some form of this for the next batch, assuming we get a 2nd keg before then!

I had a similar setup for quite a while (7.5g kettle) Finally sprung for a 16g kettle, as I was tired of doing all the work and only getting 4g of quality finished product.

I don't have enough kegs to dedicate one for dry hopping yet, nor the proper filters, so my first go will be my traditional method.

Primary, just dump first set of dry hops in.
Cold crash 24-48 hours
Keg and do 2nd dry hop in serving keg in hop bag.

If I don't cold crash using this method, the hop debris from my primary dry hop clogs my liquid out tube every time.

I'm thinking if I get those filters though, I could just serve directly from the dry hopping keg.

Also, how much extra value do you feel you get out of the 2nd dry hop? Hops are getting pricey, if I can even find them. LHBS wants $35/lb for Citra this year!

 

[Braufessor]

Complete noob question:
What grain gives it that yellow colour?

Well, to be honest, the better question would be: "What kind of lighting gives you that color?"

That beer is exactly the posted recipe at the beginning of the thread. Different lighting will make the exact same beer look surprisingly different.

These are the same beers as each other, and the same as the one in the photo you were referring to.

 

[TxBigHops]

Hey guys, here's mine! Nine days conditioning and two days in the fridge. May improve with a few more days of conditioning. Gobs of grapefruit and decent bitterness. I think I succeeded in brewing a session IPA with regular IPA bitterness and body. Pic color didn't come out right - it's more yellow, less brown. I'll get another one this weekend outside.

I changed things up some from Brau's original recipe. Here's mine:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Sunny D-Lite Session IPA
Author: TxBigHops

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.034
Efficiency: 73% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.048
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 4.61%
IBU (tinseth): 59.21
SRM (morey): 5.66

FERMENTABLES:
7 lb - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (68.3%)
1.5 lb - American - Wheat Malt (14.6%)
12 oz - United Kingdom - Golden Naked Oats (7.3%)
8 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (4.9%)
8 oz - Rice Hulls - (late addition) (4.9%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 19.42
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 12.54
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 9, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.98
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.36
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.91
0.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F
1 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 156 F, Time: 60 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Wyeast - Denny's Favorite 50 1450
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 70 F
Fermentation Temp: 64 F
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)

This recipe has been published online at:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/291157/sunny-dee-lite-session-ipa

Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2016-04-07 03:46 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2016-03-26 20:45 UTC

 

[Braufessor]

Updates on my last 2 batches.

My Simcoe/Amarillo/Centennial keg is about 75% gone. It is a pretty good beer and has seemed to mellow out - The Centennial comes across as a bit harsh/drying for a beer like this. Not my favorite combo so far, but solid..... kind of reminds me a bit of a Sierra Nevada/Two Hearted combo.
Tasted my Citra/Columbus last night.... moving to Dry hop keg tonight. I thought it tasted quite good. Optimistic about this one after another dry hop and a week of carbonation.
Probably rebrew my old standby (the original recipe Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy) this weekend I think.

 

[KirkMN]

Braufessor, would you think if you didn't have the Centennial in there the flavor would come out better? Simcoe/Amarillo are a great combo and I was thinking about hopping this beer with that combo.

I'll be pulling off a few growlers of my Nelson/Amarillo and the all Citra beers tonight, so I should have some results shortly. Time to brew more, lots more.

Anyone know of a place to get Galaxy? Seems most are out.

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor, would you think if you didn't have the Centennial in there the flavor would come out better? Simcoe/Amarillo are a great combo and I was thinking about hopping this beer with that combo.

Oh - it is the centennial for sure. I have always had that problem with centennial....just always comes off harsher/drier than I prefer. I love the hop.... but, just don't have a lot of personal success with it. Good beers.... just not great really.

I am going to try removing it from the dry hopping to see if that helps.

But, yeah, simcoe/amarillo should be great.

 

[rsalan]

Anyone know of a place to get Galaxy? Seems most are out.

Try Farmhouse Brewing Supply.

When would you guys say this beer "peaks"? 2 weeks after kegging? 3?

 

[Braufessor]

2 weeks fermenting/hopping
1 week carbonation getting about right.

So.... I would say weeks 3-4-5 from brew day is when I like it most. Of course, if it is week 7-8 or 9...... I wouldn't know

 

[KirkMN]

Well, I just bottled two kegs of variations of this recipe.

First one:
4.1 gallon batch
Same water chemisty
Same grain bill by percentage but scaled to 4.9%
OG 1.051
FG 1.014
19 IBU based on just the bittering hops.
Wyeast London Ale III 1318

Flame Out = .75 oz. each of Nelson/Amarillo
Chill to 160 or below and add .75 oz. each of Nelson/Amarillo

**Dry Hop #1- At day 12 - added to the dry hop keg:
1 oz. each of Nelson/Amarillo

I skipped the 2nd dry hop thinking it might be too much, however it could have used it.

Tastes like a great session ale, extremely drinkable. The Nelson didn't come through as much as I had hoped. Maybe the Amarillo was too much for it, not sure but I'll try it again with Nelson and maybe Southern Cross and a 2nd dry hop.

Second one:
Same grain bill as original recipe, water, but this time all Citra and using Wyeast ESB Ale 1968.
Unfortunately, while this looks amazing, the hops I had in this beer were all 1 oz Hoptimus Rex Citra hops, and they must have all been bad. I'm getting a garlic and onion taste from it that is a bit strange to say the least. When I first tried Citradelic it tasted similar, and I know that one uses Citra hops. My iteration on this will have to be attempted again, this time with the other 1lb bag of Citra.

Currently brewing the original recipe again with the killer combo of Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic and TYB Vermont Ale yeast. I need to brew a few batches just to meet local demand.

 

[olotti]

Just added 4oz Nelson dry hop to mine. Used ctz to bitter, late galaxy additions and a galaxy and Nelson hop stand. Big difference in mine is I flipped the water chemistry and went to higher sulfate lower chloride which makes the hops pop a little more and gives them a slightly brighter, sharper edge, I've used it on IPAs before and it's a nice contrast.

 

[rnm410]

Oh - it is the centennial for sure. I have always had that problem with centennial....just always comes off harsher/drier than I prefer. I love the hop.... but, just don't have a lot of personal success with it. Good beers.... just not great really.

I am going to try removing it from the dry hopping to see if that helps.

But, yeah, simcoe/amarillo should be great.

What's the general consensus on cascade and Columbus?

 

[ruascott]

I've got two yeast options I can use this weekend. Going with a Citra/Mosaic combo

1272 or 1968?

 

[sheikyerbouti]

I've got two yeast options I can use this weekend. Going with a Citra/Mosaic combo

1272 or 1968?

I'd say 1968.

 

[Braufessor]

I've got two yeast options I can use this weekend. Going with a Citra/Mosaic combo

1272 or 1968?

I think either would work out well. 1968 will likely finish with a higher gravity. 1272 will leave some fruitiness and lower gravity.......

Are you starting at 1.055 range - or higher? If Higher, I say 1272. If lower, either will likely work fine, and 1968 will work better with a lower gravity beer without finishing too high.

 

[rnm410]

I've got two yeast options I can use this weekend. Going with a Citra/Mosaic combo

1272 or 1968?

I do get fruity from 1272, especially when you ramp up the temperature just short of ester production. That is a clean fruity taste, nothing offensive.

 

[arnobg]

Yeah I personally notice some peachy eaters from 1272 at higher temperatures but they're not offensive at all and it isn't much. I think it is a great yeast choice to try out on this brew. If keep it around 65-66F if possible for the first few days and maybe let it get up to 68.

I have actually been wondering what it does to this recipe so if you do it let us know how it turns out!

 

[ruascott]

I went with the 1968. I'm using the 1272 for the Denny's Rye IPA today.

My efficiency was quite low.....I do BIAB and normally hit about 75%. Yesterday was closer to 65%. Only thing I did different was use 100% RO water, and then added the gypsum and CaCl amounts as indicated. I've always just used my city tap water prior to yesterday, so maybe that was the difference.

I was at 1.050, even after increasing 1lb both the 2Row and GP. One other thing....I totally forgot the oats and barley for the first 30 mins of my mash. I put them in at 30 min, and let the mash run an extra 15 mins (75 total). Not sure how much that messed things up.

 

[cegan09]

Just bottled mine (don't have all my keg stuff yet). Holy crap it's good. I threw the dregs from the bottling bucket into a glass and chilled them. I don't get as much aroma or flavor as some pro beers in this style (though it stayed open for a while chilling, so we'll see), but it's great. Even the double bittering addition works well.

Thanks to everyone's tips in here, this is going to be a regular brew for me. can't wait to make it again.

 

[ruascott]

I went with the 1968. I'm using the 1272 for the Denny's Rye IPA today.

My efficiency was quite low.....I do BIAB and normally hit about 75%. Yesterday was closer to 65%. Only thing I did different was use 100% RO water, and then added the gypsum and CaCl amounts as indicated. I've always just used my city tap water prior to yesterday, so maybe that was the difference.

I was at 1.050, even after increasing 1lb both the 2Row and GP. One other thing....I totally forgot the oats and barley for the first 30 mins of my mash. I put them in at 30 min, and let the mash run an extra 15 mins (75 total). Not sure how much that messed things up.

Geesh....I actually really screwed this one up. Not only did my efficiency fall, probably due a lot to forgetting the oats/barley....I totally under hopped this.

For some reason I thought it was 1.5oz total per addition, rather than 3 oz. So I was under hopped by half at my FO and whirlpool additions.

Sigh.....I'm sure the beer will still be good, but let this serve as a warning about trying to watch The Masters, drinking HB, and brewing all at the same time.

 

[Braufessor]

Geesh....I actually really screwed this one up. Not only did my efficiency fall, probably due a lot to forgetting the oats/barley....I totally under hopped this.

For some reason I thought it was 1.5oz total per addition, rather than 3 oz. So I was under hopped by half at my FO and whirlpool additions.

Sigh.....I'm sure the beer will still be good, but let this serve as a warning about trying to watch The Masters, drinking HB, and brewing all at the same time.

Actually, with the slightly lower gravity, the 1968 yeast..... a bit less hops might be just fine. Dry hop it at the 3 ounce rate. I bet you might end up with a nice session pale ale when it is all said and done. There are far worse ways to screw up a beer than anything you did here.

I have actually been thinking about doing this same beer with less hops..... There is nothing magic about the 3 ounces at each addition.... it is just what I have done in the past, so now it is habit. Perhaps we are all just wasting hops and could get an equally good beer with less????

Keep us informed - I think it will turn out quite good potentially.

 

[rnm410]

Magnum vs warrior for bittering.
Has this been tried and tasted yet?

 

[arnobg]

Magnum vs warrior for bittering.
Has this been tried and tasted yet?

If not specifically with this recipe, there are TONS of threads dedicated to warrior vs magnum for bittering. Quick google search shows plenty of info on that.

 

[kyle415]

Thanks for the recipe, Braufessor! I'm drinking the first bottle right now. I haven't had Heady Topper or Hill Farmstead, so I can't compare it to that. However, it tastes incredibly close to Treehouse's Julius.

I did make a couple changes out of necessity. I used White Lab's Burlington and I didn't buy enough hops so my 2nd dryhop was with only 1oz of Citra.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks. This beer is incredible.

 

[Braufessor]

Magnum vs warrior for bittering.
Has this been tried and tasted yet?

I don't see it making a significant difference.... both are pretty clean, and you aren't using a ton of it anyway. I use warrior because..... well, that is what I in the habit of using.

 

[jjbrewhouse]

I used Columbus for my bittering