I'm looking for a super dank hop without onion/garlic aromas. Anyone?
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
- Thread starter Braufessor
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I'm looking for a super dank hop without onion/garlic aromas. Anyone?
FruityHops
Well-Known Member
I'm starting to plan a future brew that would be my first all grain (BIAB) and first "New England" style IPA. How does this recipe look?
Grain bill and resulting color OK? IBU OK? Should I use citra instead of mosaic? Any advice is welcome, thanks.
Grain bill and resulting color OK? IBU OK? Should I use citra instead of mosaic? Any advice is welcome, thanks.
Apollo! dankest hop I've smelled yet, I've used it in my last two beers as both a bittering and flavor edition. When I cut the bag open, I ordered 4oz from farmhouse, it literally smelled like dank weed. Super high aa at 18+% so it's great to bitter but also lends a nice grapefruity dankness when used really late like at 5 min or whirlpool.
Brau, so I'm setting up my water for another beer like this using 1318 for the first time. So using all RO water and Bru'n water my adjusted profile looks like this what do ya think, I'm gonna try the high chloride again with the 1318 and see what happens.
Cal-113
Mg-0
Na-0
Sulfate- 74
Chloride-147
Bicarbonate- (-34)
Hardness-284
Mash pH- 5.3
OG- 1.068
FG- 1.014
So a 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio. Good to go with this or would you add anything? Is the calcium to high? If so how would I lower it.
Cal-113
Mg-0
Na-0
Sulfate- 74
Chloride-147
Bicarbonate- (-34)
Hardness-284
Mash pH- 5.3
OG- 1.068
FG- 1.014
So a 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio. Good to go with this or would you add anything? Is the calcium to high? If so how would I lower it.
I'm starting to plan a future brew that would be my first all grain (BIAB) and first "New England" style IPA. How does this recipe look?
Grain bill and resulting color OK? IBU OK? Should I use citra instead of mosaic? Any advice is welcome, thanks.
What are you hoping to get from a 120F whirlpool?
FruityHops
Well-Known Member
http://www.experimentalbrew.com/exp...-steeping-lower-temperature-improve-final-hop
More hoppy goodness I hope
OP
OP
Easiest way to knock the Calcium down a little is to use a bit of Canning Salt to get some of your chloride (I like the Na it adds too) and add a bit of epsom salt in place of gypsum. This will also add a bit of Mg that is good for yeast health. Both of these get you your sulfate and chloride without adding Calcium. I don't know that the high calcium would be "bad". I think it is higher than you need. Might also cause yeast to Floc out more??
Your overall chloride and sulfate look good.
I like to be in the high 5.3's to low 5.4's for mash pH and Kettle pH (pre boil) of a bout 5.4-5.45.
OP
OP
I'm starting to plan a future brew that would be my first all grain (BIAB) and first "New England" style IPA. How does this recipe look?
Grain bill and resulting color OK? IBU OK? Should I use citra instead of mosaic? Any advice is welcome, thanks.
looks good to me. 5 is about the perfect color in my opinion. I tend to go lower gravity with more hops. However, I think your recipe looks good. Brew it and then change to suit your preferences in the future.
FruityHops
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear 5 is a good color, I thought 7 was more the target.
Keep in mind that is a 3 gallon batch. So more than 2.5 grams of hops per gallon? Not that I'm surprised, I have no real frame of reference.
Where do you get canning salt and Epsom salt? Will the lhbs have it? So the canning salt will knock down the calcium while adding sodium and then I can reduce the gypsum and add a touch of Epsom salt to reduce the calcium as well. Oh the fun with water chemistry.
Something tells me that I need to compare these super low temp whirlpools to pre-fermentation dry hopping. Chemically, I don't know that anything is happening to hops at 120f that wouldn't happen at fermentation temps. Maybe oils are getting quickly dissolved, which would then allow you to remove the vegetable matter, but I don't know what else.
OP
OP
Sorry - did not notice it was 3 gallons.... good to go on the hops. As far as color.... so much of that has to do with the lighting. These two pictures are the same beer. Different light. Personally, I really like the color coming in around 5 - always looks great. Also like to avoid caramel/crystal malts as much as possible.
OP
OP
Just get them at Walmart or grocery store. Make sure to use a water calculator...... we are really talking about small amounts.
I think typically I am using approximately the following per 5 gallons:
3-3.5 grams CaCl
1 Gram Gypsum
.5 gram Canning Salt
.5 gram Epsom Salt.
(also getting a bit from my 20% tap water that goes with 80% RO Water).
I use Bru'n water if that's what you mean by water calculator. Using all RO water my amounts are def more than what you have listed. In this next batch to get 146 for chloride I need to add 6 grams to the mash so I'm sure your tap water is helping add minerals for you. Thanks for the info.
Interesting read re: lots of late hops/generally adding hops before fermentation
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.291/epdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jib.291/epdf
brewski09
Well-Known Member
I wasn't a fan of Apollo. I'm looking for some comet myself. Smelled some dried cones at Sierra Nevada and I definitely want to get some from a good supplier. I love hop Union for quality but no one here seems to carry them:/
Yakima Valley Hops has them in stock
Any onion/garlic aromas and flavors?
Not that I could pull out. More like just a dankness that hangs out in the back, I use lots of citrusy hops like Amarillo, Galaxy, mosaic so those seem to dominate but that's what I'm going for. I hear summit really has that garlic/onion edge to it.
TheHopfather
Well-Known Member
Any thoughts on a Simcoe/Citra combo in this beer? Never used those two hops together before but I've got a lot of both. Any preferred ratios to use them in or is 1:1 fine?
OK I went into Bru'n water and threw in some canning salt and Epsom salt additions. How does this look again using ALL RO water.
Cal- 80
Mag- 9.9
Sodium- 31.2
Sulfate- 76
Chloride- 162.8
Hardness- 241
Mash pH- 5.3
It amounts to:
Gypsum- .25 Gram/Gal
Epsom- .38
Can salt- .30
Cal Chloride- .90
Lactic Acid- .19 mL/Gal
So how does this look now I can give you the actual mash and sparge additions but thought that's be overkill LOL.
Brau - how well do you think 1318 would go with a Maine Beer Dinner clone.
Recipe here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=541499
Recipe here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=541499
OP
OP
Hmmmmm...... when I plug those Grams/Gallon into B'run Water with 100% RO water, I get:
Cal- 105
Mag- 9.9
Sodium- 39
Sulfate- 103
Chloride- 204
Hardness- 304
Mash pH- 5.3
In the ballpark of what I do, A bit higher on Sulfate and Chloride...... Not sure why there is a difference????
I use about that for gypsum..... but, I am a bit less on salt, epsom and CaCl.
Again - not sure why your B'run water is giving you different numbers than mine is??
OP
OP
I would think it would go well...... but, again, I just don't use 1318 that much. I see no reason why it wouldn't be great in there though.
OP
OP
Have not done it - but, I would think it would be good. I would go 1:1 the first time I brewed it and then maybe adjust one way or another in follow up batches to see what you prefer.
Weird. I'll double check that when I get home. If anything I'll just lower the salt, Epsom and chloride. I'd like to get it around the original numbers that I posted basically a 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio.
OP
OP
Actually... I get closer to 130 on calcium now that I look at it.
I have B'run Water Version 3.4 from April of 2015.
I am going in these ranges (if I was using 100% RO)
CaCle = .6-7 gr/gallon
Gypsum = .2-.3 gr/gallon
Epsom = .1 gr/gallon
Salt = .1 gr/gallon
.2ml lactic looks about right. Maybe a touch less even would be fine
None of these numbers are "that" different than yours...... So, I don't think anything you are looking at is totally out of line and at a certain point, fussing over 10 or 20ppm is probably of little or no significance.
I have B'run Water Version 3.4 from April of 2015.
I am going in these ranges (if I was using 100% RO)
CaCle = .6-7 gr/gallon
Gypsum = .2-.3 gr/gallon
Epsom = .1 gr/gallon
Salt = .1 gr/gallon
.2ml lactic looks about right. Maybe a touch less even would be fine
None of these numbers are "that" different than yours...... So, I don't think anything you are looking at is totally out of line and at a certain point, fussing over 10 or 20ppm is probably of little or no significance.
That's prob the version I have, I just got into water chemistry late 2015. Thanks for posting the numbers and looking into this.
sheikyerbouti
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2007
- Messages
- 78
- Reaction score
- 18
Brewed this recently and it came out excellent. I had to sub ESB yeast as it was all I had and it was still great.
Well, I finally got around to brewing my version of this yesterday. If the color in the pic below is any indication, I will be very happy! I plan to name this brew Sunny D-Lite! Just slightly undershot my OG at 1.048. Also had an unusual situation with the Denny's 50. When I took the yeast out of the fridge, it had already started to swell a bit. Anything to be concerned about? I smacked it and it swelled up as much as the package would allow by the time I was ready to pitch. No unusual odor when I cut it open. However, for maybe the first time since I started brewing , there was still no activity in the carboy when I left for work this morning, about 14 hours after pitching. On my way home now, so we'll see what it looks like in about an hour.
Hmm... having trouble with the pic. I'll uplaod later.
OP
OP
I would not worry about the swelling at all...... I notice that 1056 packs almost always swell up on me. Never a problem.
One of my fav combinations. Both high aa hops so u can use sparingly. I've tried simcoe at 15 min to pull more of the pine, grapefruit, resinous out of it and then hit the citra at 10 then an ounce ea at 5 for the flavor then Ill throw 2 oz ea into a hopstand and also dry hop with 2oz ea. citra has all the topical fruit while I feel the simcoe lends a nice smooth piney, citrus grapefruit aspect. They blend well together and since they're both high aa I don't feel like one will over power the other.
Thanks. Nothing to worry about. It's bubbling away nicely now. About an inch of krausen. Here's that pic of the color. Me likey!
Brau,
Would you mind posting the ppm for each of the salts if you were to use 100% RO water? It would help me tremendously. Below is what I used for my first batch, but the Ph ended up being too low.
Ca: 90 ppm
Mg: 7.8 ppm
Na: 26.0 ppm
S04: 74 ppm
Cl: 128 ppm
Bicarb: 69 ppm
Also, I've found that if I use Canning salt to get the sodium numbers up, I seem to overshoot on the Cl. Therefore I used baking soda to get sodium, and this also adds bicarbonate. Is there a reason you prefer canning salt to baking soda?
The additions I use are:
CaS04: 0.30 gram/gal
MgS04: 0.30 gram/gal
NaHC03: 0.36 gram/gal
CaCl: 1.00 gram/gal
Would you recommend changing any of these numbers?
Thanks for all the help!
John
Would you mind posting the ppm for each of the salts if you were to use 100% RO water? It would help me tremendously. Below is what I used for my first batch, but the Ph ended up being too low.
Ca: 90 ppm
Mg: 7.8 ppm
Na: 26.0 ppm
S04: 74 ppm
Cl: 128 ppm
Bicarb: 69 ppm
Also, I've found that if I use Canning salt to get the sodium numbers up, I seem to overshoot on the Cl. Therefore I used baking soda to get sodium, and this also adds bicarbonate. Is there a reason you prefer canning salt to baking soda?
The additions I use are:
CaS04: 0.30 gram/gal
MgS04: 0.30 gram/gal
NaHC03: 0.36 gram/gal
CaCl: 1.00 gram/gal
Would you recommend changing any of these numbers?
Thanks for all the help!
John
OP
OP
swamped right now - might be a day or two before I have a chance to look at this more closely.
What SRM did you end up going for?
According to Brewer's Friend I should be around 5.6. I originally had dark wheat in the recipe when I was trying to get it to 7, then changed my mind and went with light wheat.
Not a popular opinion around here, but fussing with minor changes to your salt additions is not going to make or break this beer. In fact, it will make almost no perceptible difference. You're going to get plenty of minerals from the malt once the grain has been mashed - including chloride, sulfate, magnesium, potassium, etc.
All you really need to do for this beer is to start with a Cl- : SO42- ratio of about 2:1, aiming for about 150ppm chloride. With RO water and relatively small additions of calcium salts, you'll probably be right around pH 5.4...so I don't get the need for extra alkalinity. Add it after you're first pH reading if you're too low. Conversely, add some lactic if you're too high.
Concentrate on technique and keeping oxygen to a minimum after fermentation, and you'll have a great beer.
OP
OP
It is popular with me - I agree. 2:1, 150ish Chloride level, pH 5.4
Don't purposely add baking soda and then come back and cancel it out with acid. Leave the baking soda out all together unless you need it to fix pH..... which I would doubt you would.
