I had a bunch of their IPAs one and a half years back and they were among the best hazy IPAs I've ever had. Zero hop burn. Someone was saying that they started having a lot of hop burn after opening the second location.
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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I had a bunch of their IPAs one and a half years back and they were among the best hazy IPAs I've ever had. Zero hop burn. Someone was saying that they started having a lot of hop burn after opening the second location.
I would agree with this. I’ve had a fair amount from Aslin without any issues but with their new larger facility my friend and I noticed the hop burn. Just like any new brewery or new system it takes time to work the kinks out. Heck Other Half’s new location her in Western NY I thought the first few batches were just ok and nothing like their Brooklyn beers they brought up. But now that they have brewed several batches and made some adjustments there have been some amazing beers from their new location.
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
I've had their stuff occasionally for many years living so close to them. Although the hop burn was the worst in the recent ones I got I have gotten it plenty of times before and always thought they were overrated for all the hype they get, although I think a lot of it is their stouts which people line up for and I don't drink those. Not terrible beer and sometimes I got one I really enjoyed, but better options around that were consistently great. I also hated how they didn't have a tasting room so you had to blow $20 for a 4 pack to try it, many times I wasn't impressed. Good they finally fixed that. Anyways, kind of off-topic and just my opinion.
Back on topic, does anyone have experience using Riwaka? Recommendations on hop pairings? I'm thinking to try Riwaka and Nelson for the next batch. Maybe with some support from Citra.
JohnConnor
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Random question from a random source, but bare with me. My wife and I started drinking tea. In my research to brew the perfect cup of tea, unsurprisingly, water was listed as most important. As I researched more, many talk about the importance of mg in water to help pull/keep desired flavors from tea leaves. It got me thinking about hops. We always talk about water treatment in relation to maltiness or drying sensation... yeast health. But do certain minerals promote different flavor profiles from hops? I did some googling but couldn't come up with any answers. Anyone have ideas?
BrewCityBaller
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Water chemistry as it relates to hop flavor and has been a hot topic on Homebrew Talk as a whole, but particularly on this thread. The sulfate to chloride ratio or water can have a deep impact on perceived hop flavor and bitterness.
JohnConnor
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Yes, as I said, dryness/maltiness or perceived bitter... round bitter, whatever you want to call it is always covered. But the actual chemistry of bringing out certain flavors or retaining them are not. One of the articles I was reading talking about Mg's "stickiness." It's ability to grab on to flavors and hold them in the drink. They talked about keep hardness low because hard water brings out some of the woody/harsh notes of tea. I haven't seen anyone talk about aspecs of water like that.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I’m pretty sure it’s been covered in here that hard water is harsh due to elevate calcium and magnesium levels.
Do you have the article from the tea? I’ve read something about tea/coffee and water profiles but it was very similar to hopping, keeping within certain ph and adjusting the ppms of certain minerals to extract desired flavors and not tannins or other compounds that would come across astringent on the pallet. Would love to see a source that talked about water profile pulling out specific flavor or aroma profiles
If I can recall correctly I believe malts generally contain a fair amount of mg on their own however you could increase those levels using magnesium sulfate in place of calcium sulfate.
Found this study this morning on mg content in malted barley vs wheat - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.226
Found this study this morning on mg content in malted barley vs wheat - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.226
From Bru-N-Water:
Magnesium is typically the secondary ion creating hardness in water. It accentuates flavor with a sour bitterness when present at low concentration, but it is astringent at high concentration. Magnesium is a yeast nutrient and an important co-factor for certain enzymes. Like calcium, magnesium reacts with the malt to lower the mash pH, but with a reduced effect compared to calcium. The preferred range for magnesium concentration is 0 to 30 ppm. Exceeding 40 ppm is not recommended. A minimum of 5 ppm magnesium is known to be desirable for good yeast flocculation, however a typical barley or wheat mash grist will contribute more than 5 ppm magnesium to the wort for proper yeast flocculation and it is not necessary to add magnesium to brewing water unless it is desired for its flavor effects. Increasing the magnesium content of mash water is not a useful tool for reducing the pH of the mash water since the allowable concentration range for this ion is small.
Going on this...and your research....you could just brew some beers with different levels of mg and see what happens.
My guess would be that some hops react differently to higher or lower levels.
Please let us know what you find.
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One effect of Mg is an undesirable 'digestive issue' if you substitute too much magnesium for calcium. Controlling and manipulating the sulfate/chloride cation ratio plays a major role in hoppy beers, especially NEIPAs.
I like a hoppy beer just as much as the next guy or gal, but not at the expense of a sudden race to the loo. Be sure to keep the Mg anion within reasonable values.
Brooo Brother
SRJHops
Why did the rabbit like NEIPA's so much?
Listened to this podcast on the way in to work today... Well worth your time if you haven't heard it yet. The brewers from Hop Butcher for the World (Chicago) discuss that it's all about understanding hop oil content/percentages when making NEIPA'S. Good stuff:
https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-episode-84-hop-butcher/
https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-episode-84-hop-butcher/
JohnConnor
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Your last statement is what I'm most interested in. The articles I found with suggested additions follow the guidelines above. They usually settle around 30 ppm. Some higher/some lower. The plan is to start playing with it to see what happens. I was just looking for a place to start or research that I could link.
popquizkid
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I chuckled every time he said "banger hops" when referring to Citra, Mosaic, Galaxy, Simcoe, Vic Secret, etc. That is a great term for those hops for sure.
Drooling.
Now there's a sweet collection
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
All Courtesy of a trade with @pshankstar He even threw in some of his freshly home roasted coffee which was slamming too!
Loud Brewing
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Yeah a lot of us in socal have called them "banger hops" or "banger beers" for ever now. We also use the term "loud" to describe the aromas of said beers as well as cannabis.
VirginiaHops1
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Rookie...
SRJHops
Why did the rabbit like NEIPA's so much?
Yeah a lot of us in socal have called them "banger hops" or "banger beers" for ever now. We also use the term "loud" to describe the aromas of said beers as well as cannabis.
I've heard them called "cheater" hops, but I like "banger" better. Really, they are just great NEIPA hops!
I suppose what they are saying in the podcast isn't all that new, and most of us already know these hops have high hop oil content. But I liked their thoughts on how important it is, and that if you use hops with lower oil content, you'll have to use more -- or at least understand how they will blend with hops with higher oil content. I am still learning about different hops and how best to blend them (aren't we all?), but this seems like a good roadmap.
I also liked their comments about Cryo, as well as the one guy who said he would take Vic Secret over Galaxy any day. I haven't used Vic Secret yet, but I've become wary of the potency (i.e. hop burn) of Galaxy, so I am going to try Vic Secret soon.
They also talked a lot about Strata, which I finally got my hands on for my latest. (Ready to drink on Saturday!) I have never smelled such strong cannabis in a hop before -- kind of makes me wonder what it was really crossed with! (I know they are in the same extended family, of course.) I don't want a cannabis taste or smell, but I am trying to get more dankness, so looking forward to seeing what I'll get from Strata. Most of my favorite NEIPA's use it!
marchuk96
If you brew it...they will come!!
I motion to call citra,mosaic,galaxy,simcoe,and amarillo " foundation hops"...just like most of us use 2 row or pilsner malt as a base...I feel like all the great n/e ipas have at least one of those hops in it to build of off...and then we build from there...I mean think about your favorites...I'll be they have at least one of those in it...
Vic secret for me just doesn't do it...its not bad but for me it just gives a weird strawberry type character I just don't like...I much prefer galaxy...it is a more flavorful and desirable hop than vic is in my opinion...
And strata may soon join the list of "foundation hops"...I really like this hop...it has fruitiness,dank and resinous components,and can stand alone for sure...love em
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Anyone have a really good Simcoe/Amarillo recipe?
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
+1 for strata, its cannabis infused orange juice.
Potent and def has its own personality to stand up against the "bangers". Paired it with citra 50% and a little cryo citra and it still came through.
Potent and def has its own personality to stand up against the "bangers". Paired it with citra 50% and a little cryo citra and it still came through.
Noob_Brewer
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I have some citra and strata myself and have been considering this combo as Ive read lots like it. Considering though amarillo to add to it too as Ive always gotten some nice orange from amarillo, more than citra. So did you use equal parts (50/50%) for boil/whirpool/and dry hopping? I definitely am looking forward to having a more dank orange/citrus combo but just not as familiar with strata yet.
beervoid
Hophead & Pellet Rubber
I just throw whatever geraniol rich cheaper hops I got in the wp. Usually centennial or columbus.
OP
OP
I brew this "session" version often and frequently use the following hop schedule in it.
60 minute 1/2 oz. Centennial
30 minute 1/2 oz. Centennial
Flame out 1 ounce each of Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe
Chill to under 160 or so and another 1.5 ounces each of Amarillo and Simcoe
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/hoppy-session-wheat-beer.644047/
I think you could do the NEIPA recipe in this thread in a similar way and use Amarillo and Simcoe too and it would turn out well.
I have 16oz of strata waiting to be used. What combinations do you use to allow the strata stand out?
Whenever I encounter a flavor/aroma hop that I'm unfamiliar with, I tend to make a "session" NEPA if you will. Usually around 5% with maybe half the hops that you'd do a NEIPA/hazy with. I feel like this allows me to really get a feel for the character of the hop. I may try this with strata. I'm also going to try this with Riwaka, HBC 586, Southern Passion, and Southern Star.
VirginiaHops1
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I wish they'd talked about specific oils. They pretty much just said use hops high in total oil like the "banger" hops, and then when the host pushed them for more info they essentially said their strategy is to always pair a new hop they're trying with one of the "bangers" e.g. citra, galaxy, vic, simcoe, amarillo. Not super scientific. Like I just heard a podcast earlier this week where Scott Janish was discussing hot side hopping and mentioned hops high in humulene and b-caryophellene oils can impart woody spicy even if used just for bittering, which I thought was pretty interesting. I know he's the exception a lot of times in terms of technical knowledge.
One thing I got out of it is I need to get some Ekuanot cryo into a NEIPA. I've become a huge fan of the cryo and have Mosaic and Simcoe to use in upcoming batches but haven't bought the Ekuanot yet even my finger has been hovering over it a few times. They said the cryo version pretty much ditches all the peppery, earthy notes and is just intense tropical fruit.
Dgallo
Instagram: bantam_brews
I just paired Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus (3.5:1.5:1:1 ratio)in a TIPA and Riwaka is really unique. It’s like like sweet and zesty citrus with a hint of pine but there’s this huge punch like profile to it. It’s got that nz hop thing but def brings more dimensions. I think you’ll like it
I'm sure some of you are doing this, but anyone routinely spunding their NEIPAs? I'm putting a recipe together and trying to figure out timing on dry hops so that I can transfer to the serving keg and spund.
I was still planning on doing the active fermentation dry hop but where I'm getting stuck is when to do the second dry hop while still being able to transfer to the keg with ~4 gravity points left.
How are you guys doing this? I get the impression that some, or most, of you have moved to one single dry hop instead of 2?
I was still planning on doing the active fermentation dry hop but where I'm getting stuck is when to do the second dry hop while still being able to transfer to the keg with ~4 gravity points left.
How are you guys doing this? I get the impression that some, or most, of you have moved to one single dry hop instead of 2?
VirginiaHops1
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I use a 2nd keg to dry hop usually but if I don't feel like doing that or don't have a dry hop keg available I'll sometimes dry hop and spund at around 60-72 hours in when fermentation is slowing but still bubbling a little. My main motivation honestly is just O2 because I really don't like opening my fermenter to dry hop once it's completely done. Some batches start faster or tear through fermentation faster so it varies a little on when I add it but I try to just catch it when there's still bubbling but it's slowing. Obviously not super precise in terms of adding at a specific amount of gravity left.
Are you only doing 1 dry hop?
VirginiaHops1
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Yeah, I do either a huge dry hop after fermentation is done and yeast crashed, or dry hop at the tail end and then spund. I've been meaning to do both at some point and see what happens, just have been having good results so haven't tinkered with my process much lately
So if I'm trying to maintain the 2 dry hops, I could...
-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation) in fermenter
-Dry hop #2 with 10-12 points in fermentation left
-Transfer to keg with ~4 points in fermentation left
-Spund in keg
I've been reading the posts regarding the "soft crash" at 60 though to drop out yeast. With the above method, I wouldn't be able to do that because fermentation is still going.
I could change it to be...
-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation)
-Once ferm is finished, soft crash to 60*F with CO2 hooked up to avoid oxygen for the most part
-Dry hop #2 for 2-3 days at 60*F
-Closed transfer to completely purged serving keg
I have been reading a lot of low oxygen brewing material and have it in my head that I need to spund EVERYTHING. Perhaps spunding isn't needed if your process is fairly tight?
EDIT: Just to clarify, haven't spunded yet. Just got my ball lock spunding valve but don't have the ability to spund in the fermenter yet.
-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation) in fermenter
-Dry hop #2 with 10-12 points in fermentation left
-Transfer to keg with ~4 points in fermentation left
-Spund in keg
I've been reading the posts regarding the "soft crash" at 60 though to drop out yeast. With the above method, I wouldn't be able to do that because fermentation is still going.
I could change it to be...
-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation)
-Once ferm is finished, soft crash to 60*F with CO2 hooked up to avoid oxygen for the most part
-Dry hop #2 for 2-3 days at 60*F
-Closed transfer to completely purged serving keg
I have been reading a lot of low oxygen brewing material and have it in my head that I need to spund EVERYTHING. Perhaps spunding isn't needed if your process is fairly tight?
EDIT: Just to clarify, haven't spunded yet. Just got my ball lock spunding valve but don't have the ability to spund in the fermenter yet.
I still DDH. I do 1st charge 12-24 hours after active fermentation begins, and then 24-48 hours before kegging. Aroma lasts for weeks.
Good to hear!
Do you perform the soft crashing at all?
Do you spund these NEIPAs at all?
I don't spund.
I've crashed before and after dry hopping, and to me, I can't tell any difference in flavor. But haze seems to be a bit more stable when I dry hop before crashing. My temps are usually right around 60 when dry hopping.
I've found Aslin to be hit or miss. I haven't had a lot of their stuff, one or two excellent examples, a couple disappointing ones. Unlike most imitators, they seemed to be more yeast driven. It wasnt just a hoppy beer.
If you get a chance, @VirginiaHops1, check out Astro Lab in Silver Spring. It's the only other local brewery I've found to make a decent NEIPA.
If you get a chance, @VirginiaHops1, check out Astro Lab in Silver Spring. It's the only other local brewery I've found to make a decent NEIPA.
VirginiaHops1
Well-Known Member
@murphyslaw , thanks for the recommendation. I don't get over there to MD much but next time I'm in that area I'll check them out. The best/most consistent on my side of the river for the style IMO are Ocelot and Solace.
In terms of the 1 dry hop or 2, I think it's split even among the big hitter commercial guys. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've heard some say they don't dry hop until after hitting terminal and crashing but I've heard some say they do it twice.
In terms of the 1 dry hop or 2, I think it's split even among the big hitter commercial guys. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've heard some say they don't dry hop until after hitting terminal and crashing but I've heard some say they do it twice.
I just recently watched a video where they interviewed the owner of weldworks. They were talking about dry hopping and how many times they dry hop juicy bits and I wrote it all down at work so I don't have it in front of me but it was 2 or 3 times they dry hop that one. Never had juicy bits myself but it's gotten a lot of good reviews
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