Noob Questions - GF Specific

[glutarded-chris]

Welcome to GF AG! you will never go back!

1) What temperature did you hit after your first infusion? I do a simple heat balance calculation to determine the strike water temperature for the amount of grain i have and the grist ratio I want. My last batch was low after the first infusion and I suspect it was because I used the highest percentage of rice i had ever used. It is possible the rice hulls absorb more heat than the millet grain and I have to adjust my calculations.

2) For the long final rest, I shoot for 1.5 qt/lb ratio. 1 qt/lb is good for initial dough in and gelatinization rest, but I think it is too stiff for conversion rests. Most advice is that if it is too stiff, the enzymes cant effectively convert the starch and too thin the enzymes are too diluted.

3) You can always have some rice solids, candy syrup or something on hand to boost the gravity a bit at the end if it is too low, or put in a little extra grain at the beginning so you have fliexibility. I suspect the gluten free malts have a good amount of variability in yield potential. I had one batch that was crazy high and I know that was not due to any process change on my part. I had a few that were low when everything seemed to go well. I wouldn't implicate your process too much until you do a few batches.

Good choice on a 10 gallon kettle. I have a 15 gallon that I bought for 8 gallon batches, but it is too large for 5 gallon batches. I plan on falling back to my 10 gallon kettle in the future because I do mostly 5 gallon batches now. Full volume boils for 5 gallon batches have to be tough for indoor brewing on a stove. If you are in a cold climate, you might consider mashing indoors and then transfer to the main kettle outside on a propane burner. This keeps the heavy large volume part outside.

 

[JMath]

Chris, do you worry about pH? Wondering if I should get a pH meter before my first brew.

 

[skleice]

Welcome to GF AG! you will never go back!

1) What temperature did you hit after your first infusion? I do a simple heat balance calculation to determine the strike water temperature for the amount of grain i have and the grist ratio I want. My last batch was low after the first infusion and I suspect it was because I used the highest percentage of rice i had ever used. It is possible the rice hulls absorb more heat than the millet grain and I have to adjust my calculations.

2) For the long final rest, I shoot for 1.5 qt/lb ratio. 1 qt/lb is good for initial dough in and gelatinization rest, but I think it is too stiff for conversion rests. Most advice is that if it is too stiff, the enzymes cant effectively convert the starch and too thin the enzymes are too diluted.

3) You can always have some rice solids, candy syrup or something on hand to boost the gravity a bit at the end if it is too low, or put in a little extra grain at the beginning so you have fliexibility. I suspect the gluten free malts have a good amount of variability in yield potential. I had one batch that was crazy high and I know that was not due to any process change on my part. I had a few that were low when everything seemed to go well. I wouldn't implicate your process too much until you do a few batches.

Good choice on a 10 gallon kettle. I have a 15 gallon that I bought for 8 gallon batches, but it is too large for 5 gallon batches. I plan on falling back to my 10 gallon kettle in the future because I do mostly 5 gallon batches now. Full volume boils for 5 gallon batches have to be tough for indoor brewing on a stove. If you are in a cold climate, you might consider mashing indoors and then transfer to the main kettle outside on a propane burner. This keeps the heavy large volume part outside.

The directions said 183 for strike water, but my temp dropped to 155. I think I need to dough in slower. I added very hot water to boost temp to 163 and loosen the mash a bit. Rice was 20% of the grain bill.

I was uneasy about adding syrups because I'm not savvy enough on the math to do it on the fly. I decided just to boil down before adding my hops. The target brew was more important to me than the quantity. No biggie.

I would definitely like to brew indoors. It is 8 degrees out today and the rest of the week will be in the teens. My current plans are to get a 10 gallon kettle and the avantco i3500 induction burner and brew right next to my utility sink in the basement....we'll see. Probably will do a couple more small batches on the stovetop for educational purposes.

 

[glutarded-chris]

@ JMath,
I would not buy a pH meter right away. I bought one and now never use it. At some point you will want to get water analysis on your home water and maybe add some minerals to get it where your target beer needs it to be, but I would just start brewing and focus on the process.

@skleice, understand if it is that cold outside!!! Opposite problem I have. So hot and humid here in the summer I rarely brew June through August!

 

[skleice]

So here’s my two cents ... I’ve been brewing on the grainfather system, which as someone mentioned seems very similar to the clawhammer, for almost a year now and love it. It produces consistent results, wort with very little trub, fantastic efficiency (85-90%) and a stress free (tho long) brew day.

I brew mostly three gallon batches so the volume limitations are not an issue, but definitely could be if you want to brew larger batches of high abv beer. This would be true for both gluten free and traditional barley based beers. I would say 5 gallon batches @ 1065 OG are pushing the upper limits of the system.

I use mostly rice malt because I feel I get better recirculation due the larger hulls and less flour. Better recirculation leads to better efficiency and smaller grain bills. Most of my beers are about 70% rice malt, 20% millet malt and 10% buckwheat. Use of Termamyl also helps with liquefaction and gelatinization.

As with any 110 volt system, the boil is less than vigorous, but sufficient. So while it may not be for everyone, for me it was a game changer as far quality and consistentcy of beer produced.

I'm beginning to seriously consider the grainfather. My main concern is stuck sparge. Have you had issues with the smaller grains? What is your crush setting? How about your heating times?

 

[rjmaillie]

skleice, i've never had a problem with a stuck sparge. My main concern has always been a stuck or slow recirculation, since that reduces efficiency. And as long as that's good, sparging is also not an issue. RIMS with gluten free grains in the Grainfather can be tricky - here's what I think helps:

- Higher percentage of rice malt in the grain bill. Milled grains are larger and less prone to going to flour, plus larger hulls.
- 30 min rest at 104° at the start of mashing. Helps break down beta-glucans in some GF grains that can gum up the mash.
- Add Termamyl at the beginning of the mash. This helps with liquefaction and gelatinization (as stated above).
- Rice hulls. The more millet you use, the more you will need.
- Water to grain ratio of 1.5 q/gal to 2.0 q/gal depending on grain bill and size. So ignore the grainfather site calculators.

Up until my last brew, i used a corona style mill. I just messed with the settings until i got a suitable crush for each grain. A PITA but it worked. Just got a Monster Mill for Christmas so I'll start using that with the brew. Recommended crush is .9-.95 mm for rice and buckwheat, .65 to .7 mm for millet.

Heating times vary depending on ambient room temps, batch size, and even what outlet you use. For my last 3 gallon batch, my brew day was 6hrs and 20 min from the time i turned the unit on to when i was putting the carboy in the ferm chamber. Not too bad since that included four mash rests and a 90 minute boil for this particular recipe. With the new Connect control panel doing most of the work, there's a lot of down time too.

 

[skleice]

skleice, i've never had a problem with a stuck sparge. My main concern has always been a stuck or slow recirculation, since that reduces efficiency. And as long as that's good, sparging is also not an issue. RIMS with gluten free grains in the Grainfather can be tricky - here's what I think helps:

- Higher percentage of rice malt in the grain bill. Milled grains are larger and less prone to going to flour, plus larger hulls.
- 30 min rest at 104° at the start of mashing. Helps break down beta-glucans in some GF grains that can gum up the mash.
- Add Termamyl at the beginning of the mash. This helps with liquefaction and gelatinization (as stated above).
- Rice hulls. The more millet you use, the more you will need.
- Water to grain ratio of 1.5 q/gal to 2.0 q/gal depending on grain bill and size. So ignore the grainfather site calculators.

Up until my last brew, i used a corona style mill. I just messed with the settings until i got a suitable crush for each grain. A PITA but it worked. Just got a Monster Mill for Christmas so I'll start using that with the brew. Recommended crush is .9-.95 mm for rice and buckwheat, .65 to .7 mm for millet.

Heating times vary depending on ambient room temps, batch size, and even what outlet you use. For my last 3 gallon batch, my brew day was 6hrs and 20 min from the time i turned the unit on to when i was putting the carboy in the ferm chamber. Not too bad since that included four mash rests and a 90 minute boil for this particular recipe. With the new Connect control panel doing most of the work, there's a lot of down time too.

Thank you! That's awesome info. Really, I'm not that concerned about the heating times, just curious. The appeal to me is that I can brew in my kitchen and still be able to watch my twin 3 year old boys.

How do you go about dropping temp from gelatinization to your saccrification step? What do you do for whirlpooling?

I'm looking to take a crack at your Julius Cline when I get a proper rig.

 

[JMath]

Thanks rjmaillie. I will be brewing with my Grainfather for the first time soon, so it's great to have some first hand tips from a gf brewer using the same system.

This is the first I've heard of a 30 minute rest at 104°, so I will add that to my plan. I didn't buy any Termamyl, only AMG-300L because that's what glutenfreehomebrewing had in their store. I planned on getting some before moving to unmalted millet.

 

[JMath]

One more question rjmaillie, during the 104°F rest, do you circulate?

 

[rjmaillie]

skleice, for dropping down to the sacc rest from gelatinization i drop some zip-locks full of ice into the recirculating wort. You might have to swap new ones in and out a few times, but generally i get to the mid to low 150s in about 10-15 minutes. For whirpooling hops, I attach the counter-flow chiller and recirculate until i get close to the desired temp. The controller then holds at that temp for as long as you want.

I tweaked that Julius clone a little (it's the best beer i've ever made, IMHO). A word of warning tho, the recirc got stuck the last time i made it so it may need more rice hulls.

Here's the link to the recipe: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/526112/elle-cubed-neipa.

 

[rjmaillie]

JMath, yes I do recirculate for that rest. Once the strike water hits 104°, I mash in and turn on the pump. How the wort recirculates at this point is also a good indicator for the rest of the mash cycle.

This rest is actually suggested by Grainfather for hi-adjunct grain bills, so i've always used it.

 

[skleice]

Thank You! I'm pulling the trigger on the Grainfather!

 

[skleice]

We'll, I've got 2 more 1/2 batches under my belt. Last week was an IPA and my gravity was low again. I double checked and sure enough, my gap setting had moved. I must not have had the nuts tightened all the way. The beer will still be ok.

Today I brewed up an American Stout. After recalibrating my mill and working like hell during the sparge to get every last drop, I hit my target OG exactly! I had to use my old Turkey fryer kettle (after intense cleaning) to accommodate the grain bill. Now, onto the waiting....the worst part.

I think I'll do 1 more stovetop batch before turning to the Grainfather. Thanks again for all of the info from everyone. I would truly be lost without it.

 

[skleice]

skleice, i've never had a problem with a stuck sparge. My main concern has always been a stuck or slow recirculation, since that reduces efficiency. And as long as that's good, sparging is also not an issue. RIMS with gluten free grains in the Grainfather can be tricky - here's what I think helps:

- Higher percentage of rice malt in the grain bill. Milled grains are larger and less prone to going to flour, plus larger hulls.
- 30 min rest at 104° at the start of mashing. Helps break down beta-glucans in some GF grains that can gum up the mash.
- Add Termamyl at the beginning of the mash. This helps with liquefaction and gelatinization (as stated above).
- Rice hulls. The more millet you use, the more you will need.
- Water to grain ratio of 1.5 q/gal to 2.0 q/gal depending on grain bill and size. So ignore the grainfather site calculators.

Up until my last brew, i used a corona style mill. I just messed with the settings until i got a suitable crush for each grain. A PITA but it worked. Just got a Monster Mill for Christmas so I'll start using that with the brew. Recommended crush is .9-.95 mm for rice and buckwheat, .65 to .7 mm for millet.

Heating times vary depending on ambient room temps, batch size, and even what outlet you use. For my last 3 gallon batch, my brew day was 6hrs and 20 min from the time i turned the unit on to when i was putting the carboy in the ferm chamber. Not too bad since that included four mash rests and a 90 minute boil for this particular recipe. With the new Connect control panel doing most of the work, there's a lot of down time too.

My Grainfather just arrived at the house. Just checking in to see how your new mill worked out? Have you adjusted your settings? My first brew will be on Good Friday. Can't wait!

Also - my Galaxy IPA came out really good. I'm so excited to find that good GF beer is possible!

 

[rjmaillie]

Glad to hear the IPA came out good! And the beer will only get better.

The new mill has made a huge difference - I can't believe I waited as long as I did to get one. And I do have an update on settings.

- Rice and buckwheat still at .95 mm and millet at .6 mm. This gives a crush that just breaks the grain and the hulls remain intact.
- I still add 7.5% (of grain bill) rice hulls
- I started using the Grainfather calculator for strike water with good results. The mash is thicker but with the better crush coming from the mill I still get very good re-circulation. Their sparge calculations still don't work for my system.

With the mill settings above I've been able to keep the pump going at full throttle with no overflow and get 85% + brew house efficiency according to Brewers Friend. Good luck with the first brew and let us know how it works out!

 

[turboturist]

What size mesh/micron size is the basket on the grainfather?

 

[skleice]

Glad to hear the IPA came out good! And the beer will only get better.

The new mill has made a huge difference - I can't believe I waited as long as I did to get one. And I do have an update on settings.

- Rice and buckwheat still at .95 mm and millet at .6 mm. This gives a crush that just breaks the grain and the hulls remain intact.
- I still add 7.5% (of grain bill) rice hulls
- I started using the Grainfather calculator for strike water with good results. The mash is thicker but with the better crush coming from the mill I still get very good re-circulation. Their sparge calculations still don't work for my system.

With the mill settings above I've been able to keep the pump going at full throttle with no overflow and get 85% + brew house efficiency according to Brewers Friend. Good luck with the first brew and let us know how it works out!

Yeah, the IPA is delicious. It's so hop saturated that I don't think you can tell it's GF. It's hazy and juicy as hell, but not bitter. I used hop shot and then all Galaxy in the whirlpool and dry hop. The head retention is lacking, but I think that is due to too much flaked oats. It also has a bit of that hop burn after drinking 1/2 a pint. I've read that a good cold crash will help with that.

What adjustments do make for the grainfather sparge calcs? I haven't even looked at the grainfather calculators or website yet.

 

[rjmaillie]

What size mesh/micron size is the basket on the grainfather?

Its a solid stainless basket with removable perforated plates top and bottom. Perforations are approximately 2mm in diameter.

 

[rjmaillie]

Yeah, the IPA is delicious. It's so hop saturated that I don't think you can tell it's GF. It's hazy and juicy as hell, but not bitter. I used hop shot and then all Galaxy in the whirlpool and dry hop. The head retention is lacking, but I think that is due to too much flaked oats. It also has a bit of that hop burn after drinking 1/2 a pint. I've read that a good cold crash will help with that.

Time will also mellow the burn. I use hop socks for all of my dry hopping and it definitely helps keep the hop matter out of packaged beer. I have no issues with burn either.

What adjustments do make for the grainfather sparge calcs? I haven't even looked at the grainfather calculators or website yet.

I use Brewers Friend for recipe building and calculations. Heres my equipment profile for the grainfather:

Boil Evaporation Rate: 2.3 qrts/hr
Grain Absorption: .45 qrts/lb
Hop Absorption: .15 qrts/oz
Kettle Deadspace: 1 qrt
Misc Loses: 1 qrt

 

[turboturist]

Its a solid stainless basket with removable perforated plates top and bottom. Perforations are approximately 2mm in diameter.

Thanks man, there's no issues with the fine crush sneaking through?

The reason I'm asking is I want to get another basket built to get better circulation. Right now I have two baskets made for BIAB, one is 300 micron and one is 400. Some days are better than others but you have to watch really watch close and deff can't circ at full speed. I crush a little finer than recommended with a MM2 Pro mill.

So I want to make sure the next one is right, fine enough to filter but not so course it allows grain through and causes a dry fire on the element or messes with the chugger pump.

 

[rjmaillie]

If you crush fine, it will definitely get through. I was using a corona mill for a while and I had some issues early on until I fine tuned the crush (plus rice hulls). With the roller mill now, very little grain gets through and recirc is really good. If I had the option, I'd drop the perforations down a half millimeter to 1.5 to account for the smaller gluten free grains.

 

[skleice]

I just wrapped up my first brew on the Grainfather. I'm very happy with this unit. Strike water was ready and waiting in the morning. Mash went great. I did 104 for 15 minutes, 170 with termamyl for 15 minutes and 150 with AMG-100 for 90 minutes. After the sparge I was dead on with my predicted preboil gravity. I used the chiller to drop to 150 and my Hop whirlpool...very convenient. I blew out the chiller so my volumes would work out. I was under OG by .03 and I did leave a little wort behind that I prob could've gotten into the fermenter. My biggest issue was that my pump was getting clogged a bit. I had a decent amount of grain get into the boil. I'll change my crush for next time. Should be a very tasty beer!

Thanks for everybody's tips along the way!!!

 

[JMath]

Great to hear skleice! I too have found the chiller-heater combo to be extremely convenient. Both for chilling from 170 to 150 during the mash, and doing a hop whirlpool.

I haven't had my pump get clogged. How much rice / rice hulls did you use?

Yes, grain getting into the boil seems unavoidable due to the size of millet. I wouldn't want to change my crush and possibly get worse extraction. It seems to get filtered on the way to the fermenter.

 

[skleice]

I think my problem was I milled everything at once like I used to for my biab setup. Next time I'll mill the rice and buckwheat seperately at a higher setting. No biggie. It was a minor clog that I just blew out.

I'm interested to see how this turns out. I'm doing a couple of IPAs with a very basic grainbill but playing with the amount of oats. Gonna use exact same recipe aside from changing the hops. Today's brew had 18% oats, next one will have none. Gonna brew in 2 weeks...

 

[JMath]

I milled my millet and rice together at .500mm at glutarded-chris's advice for my last two batches. When I tried to mill the rice alone, I had to go to a really high gap and it didn't seem like it worked very well. But it could have just been my mill.

 

[skleice]

Hmm, not sure why I had a problem then. I definitely saw a grain blockage working it's way through the hose. The filter was still in place after the brew.

Maybe it was the 18% oats?

Edit - I used 15% rice\hulls

 

[skleice]

Just wrapped up another brew (Lilikoi Kepolo clone). Milled rice at .95 and millet at .6 (+10% oats). I also used a pasta strainer to pull some of the grain out of the boil. Pump worked like a champ with no issues. Can't wait to taste this one!