Noob questions for a Marzen/Amber brew will the roastiness mellow?

[rtstrider]

Hey all! I'm very experienced in the light brew/pale ale/ipa styles. However, I've rarely if ever brew anything darker than a pale ale. Well my question is I brewed a Marzen (recipe at the end) following a recipe from this site. The roast is VERY prominent and it's still pretty green. This was brewed on 7/17/2020 and warm fermented with 1 pack (non rehydrated (DOH I KNOW lol)) w34/70. There's a touch of acetylaldehyde in there that needs to be cleaned up still but fermentation pretty much was done on the 22nd. The plan is to let it sit in primary for at least 2 more weeks to bulk condition at room temp, move to secondary to free up the primary for another brew...Come back to this and then taste it before fining with gelatin. From what I can tell it's definitely not infected, but, it's got a TON of mellowing to do. My question is not really time related per se since each brew runs on its own timeline. It's more along the lines of will the roastiness mellow eventually? I used the decarbonated water profile from the brewers fried water calculator and treated the store bought RO water with Campden for insurance purposes. Anywho the recipe is the Oztoberfest from the lager section. The only difference is I had to use caramunich 2 because the lhbs did not have caramunich 1 and I added a pinch of melanoidin to mimic a decoction.

Style Name: Märzen
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.38 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.041
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.008
ABV (standard): 6.18%
IBU (tinseth): 23.2
SRM (morey): 9.95
Mash pH: 5.54

FERMENTABLES:
3.7 lb - Pilsner (30.6%)
3.7 lb - Munich - Light 10L (30.6%)
3.7 lb - Vienna (30.6%)
0.5 lb - CaraMunich II (4.1%)
0.25 lb - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (2.1%)
0.25 lb - Melanoidin (2.1%)

HOPS:
1.3 oz - Hallertau Mittelfruh, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.75, Use: First Wort, IBU: 21.46
0.25 oz - Hallertau Mittelfruh, Type: Pellet, AA: 3.75, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 1.74

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Strike, Temp: 140 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 3.78 gal
2) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 2.8 qt
3) Fly Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 5.07 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - Saflager - German Lager Yeast W-34/70

 

[Gnomebrewer]

There shouldn't be any roastiness - there are no roasted malts! Maybe caramunich II has a roasty edge (I've never used it). IME, yes - roastiness generally mellows with age (which is good or bad depending on your tastes).

 

[rtstrider]

There shouldn't be any roastiness - there are no roasted malts! Maybe caramunich II has a roasty edge (I've never used it). IME, yes - roastiness generally mellows with age (which is good or bad depending on your tastes).

I thought Caramunich was a caramel malt? It's not too high on the lovibond scale but I'm sensitive to that also lol Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is almost too roasty for my tastes tbh. I'm a lighter beer drinker (think lagers, blondes, Becks is a good example) so I tend to pick up on any toastiness. Maybe toastiness is the word I'm looking for

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I too see nothing in the grist list indicating roastiness. If I was doing I'd mash at 152F for a fuller body as, to me, a Marzen is full body type beer.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Caramunich (40 to 54L) should not give a roastiness. Caramunich is described as "impart a rich, caramel-sweet aroma and full flavor, as well as intense color. " Perhaps this is what you're trying to describe?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I thought Caramunich was a caramel malt?

It is, but some of the darker crystals can become slightly roasty (eg. special B and caraaroma). Caramunich II is much lighter at around the 40 to 50L range, but is described by weyermann as having 'slight notes of aromatic roastiness'. Again, I haven't used it so can only speculate.

 

[rtstrider]

Honestly I'm wondering if the beer is just extremely young right now and needs some time to mellow out? I'll be giving it a taste come Friday to see if time helps.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Realize too beer tastes much different carbonated vs uncarbonated.

 

[RM-MN]

A few of the words in the original post jump out to me. "Warm fermented with lager yeast" and "one pack un-rehydrated" and "brewed on 7/17/2020" all add up to bad taste. Give the beer some time! Don't move it to secondary, it needs the yeast to do cleanup and moving off the yeast cake is a backward step. Buy a second fermenter! Bucket fermenters are cheap! Don't feel forced to move a beer to secondary when you could have multiple primaries.

 

[rtstrider]

A few of the words in the original post jump out to me. "Warm fermented with lager yeast" and "one pack un-rehydrated" and "brewed on 7/17/2020" all add up to bad taste. Give the beer some time! Don't move it to secondary, it needs the yeast to do cleanup and moving off the yeast cake is a backward step. Buy a second fermenter! Bucket fermenters are cheap! Don't feel forced to move a beer to secondary when you could have multiple primaries.

Yep that's probably whats going to happen. If anything I'll invest in another glass carboy. In the meantime though it's getting till at least Friday before I give it another taste test.

 

[jdauria]

Let it lager for a month or two and hopefully it will mellow out. As others have said, not sure where the roast is coming from unless it's some reaction from the CMII and the melanoidin.

 

[rtstrider]

Let it lager for a month or two and hopefully it will mellow out. As others have said, not sure where the roast is coming from unless it's some reaction from the CMII and the melanoidin.

I do have a lager question! Is it recommended to bulk lager or bottle lager? Aka lager in the fermenter or bottle, carb, then lager for a bit? I mean either way it'll be bottle lagered but I want to make sure I'm doing this the better way

 

[jdauria]

I do have a lager question! Is it recommended to bulk lager or bottle lager? Aka lager in the fermenter or bottle, carb, then lager for a bit? I mean either way it'll be bottle lagered but I want to make sure I'm doing this the better way

Hmmm...I keg, but think you could do either. I have lagered in fermenter, usually cold crash and lager for 1-2 weeks and then do a closed transfer to another fermenter to get it off yeast and then lager for extended periods, but now I lager in kegs. I am thinking it really would not have much of a difference and all depends on the room you have.

 

[rtstrider]

I just wanted to give a heads up and let everyone know I pulled a small sample of the Oktoberfest yesterday evening. MUCH better! It has all but smoothed out, with just a touch of sulfur, but it's going to be bulk conditioning at room temp anyways for at least 2-3 more weeks. Long story short I've got a brew coming up that has to be done shortly so that takes priority . Anywho tomorrow will be 2 weeks since brew day for the Oktoberfest. It will be racked to a secondary fermenter (just to free up the primary) and then I'll lager it as soon as this next brew is finished.