Non statistical poll

[frank001]

Long time lurker first time poster.

Curious to get an idea of how much people would be willing to pay for a fully integrated fermentation chamber? One made from a commercial based factory.

The concept would include a integrated controller with both heating and cooling function and a default fridge function.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Also a long time lurker, relatively new poster.

It would have to be only a bit more than buying a small chest freezer, temp controller, and fermwrap. A complete system would be more convenient, but if the cost of that convenience is more than, say double what a DIY setup would cost, it would not be worth it in my opinion.

For me, a lot of the fun of homebrewing is making the DIY equipment. Brewing beer is just a means to test out the latest upgrade!

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

I wouldn't take one for free ... I have multiple fermentions going concurrently all at different temps

 

[bfrerich]

Depends on the price.

 

[passedpawn]

I've had 3 different fermentation fridges. They were all 14-15 cuft, and had dual function heat and cold. Here's what I paid. I bought all the fridges used off ebay, so of course that can't be compared.

• $200 Fridge ($60, $100, $200 is what I paid for used fridges)
• $75 Dual mode temp controller ( I have a fancy one now)
• $40 heater (smallish ceramic heater from Amazon).

 

[frank001]

Also a long time lurker, relatively new poster.

It would have to be only a bit more than buying a small chest freezer, temp controller, and fermwrap. A complete system would be more convenient, but if the cost of that convenience is more than, say double what a DIY setup would cost, it would not be worth it in my opinion.

For me, a lot of the fun of homebrewing is making the DIY equipment. Brewing beer is just a means to test out the latest upgrade!

Lol, I couldn't agree more. I have a full Kal clone set up and have maybe brewed 3 batches in the last 2 years. I think I enjoy the creation side of the hobby more than the beer side. Lol thanks for your feedback.

 

[frank001]

I wouldn't take one for free ... I have multiple fermentions going concurrently all at different temps

Really...? Really...? For free? Really...?

 

[frank001]

Depends on the price.

Clearly missed the point of the original post. :/

 

[frank001]

I've had 3 different fermentation fridges. They were all 14-15 cuft, and had dual function heat and cold. Here's what I paid. I bought all the fridges used off ebay, so of course that can't be compared.

• $200 Fridge ($60, $100, $200 is what I paid for used fridges)
• $75 Dual mode temp controller ( I have a fancy one now)
• $40 heater (smallish ceramic heater from Amazon).

This is what I was looking for! Thanks for the feed back. My thoughts sprung from me creating a zero and ones Ferm clone with brewpi, and thought that there was not a real player in a blingalishishs glass door ferm market. I have a chronical and heavily debated if it would make more sense to just use the SS bolt on.

 

[passedpawn]

I meant I bought them off craigslist, not ebay. Derp. Merry Christmas all.

 

[mongoose33]

All you need to do this is an Inkbird controller (circa $35), some sort of heating mat (Fermwrap or similar, circa $30), and a fridge, which can be found cheaply used.

So for $65 plus a refrigerator I have a fully integrated fermentation chamber. Wait, I have exactly that already. If I'd rather use a ceramic reptile cage heater, the price drops by about $18.

So, what would I pay? If the refrigerator was large enough to hold a full carboy plus an airlock on top.....you're probably looking at $150 perhaps. But if you're going to need to ship it, then who knows what that would cost?

I just checked craigslist in my area; used refrigerators ranging from $40 to $150. So w/ the inkbird and reptile cage heater you're talking a max of $200 before you price yourself out of the range. And probably less.

 

[frank001]

All you need to do this is an Inkbird controller (circa $35), some sort of heating mat (Fermwrap or similar, circa $30), and a fridge, which can be found cheaply used.

So for $65 plus a refrigerator I have a fully integrated fermentation chamber. Wait, I have exactly that already. If I'd rather use a ceramic reptile cage heater, the price drops by about $18.

So, what would I pay? If the refrigerator was large enough to hold a full carboy plus an airlock on top.....you're probably looking at $150 perhaps. But if you're going to need to ship it, then who knows what that would cost?

I just checked craigslist in my area; used refrigerators ranging from $40 to $150. So w/ the inkbird and reptile cage heater you're talking a max of $200 before you price yourself out of the range. And probably less.

Agreed, not familiar with the inkbird but will look into it. I am always late to the "invention" party so I am all but sure this is not a new idea. Anyway, thanks for your feedback

 

[frank001]

Thinking through this, I would compare my question to that of stir plates. I mean you can make one for uber cheap or you can buy one for 3x the diy price. There is probably not enough of a non-diy market to support a stand alone ferm producer. Hmmmm

 

[schematix]

sounds like a tough sell to me. unless it did something really unique i'd think this idea is DOA.

what's it going to do that a standard fridge or freezer with a simple thermostat doesn't do already? are you using some novel method for heating/cooling or are you just bolting controls onto an existing unit and putting your own sticker on it?

these are also bulky items - shipping is going to be killer.

 

[Sadu]

It would be cool to have a ferm fridge the size of a standard fermentor. Enough for a brew bucket and nothing more. But the issue is that you are competing with cheap/free 2nd hand fridges and $10 temp controllers.

 

[schematix]

Thinking through this, I would compare my question to that of stir plates. I mean you can make one for uber cheap or you can buy one for 3x the diy price. There is probably not enough of a non-diy market to support a stand alone ferm producer. Hmmmm

$10 vs $30 is a lot different than $400 vs $1200.

 

[timdillon36]

I think a peltier style fermentation chamber that is sized to fit the most common fermentation vessels would work out well. I know they don't get super cold but are really a great system when you are only trying to control temp close Ish to ambient. It might not work the best for cold crashing but in most cases would be cold enough to logger.

Add to this a built in temp control that you can program setpoints and times so you can enter a fermentation profile over days to raise and lower the temp without thinking about it. Just Set it and forget it.

Add to that even if it was modular and you could add units that were controled by the same controller. But keep it simple, a chip in the mother unit but no screen or controls, connect via WiFi, Bluetooth, or USB and load the profiles from an app.

A set and forget in the 250 range or a double wide for 300, I think would have a decent shot. If I had the knowledge and resources I would see if I could get this crowd funded.

To take this one step further would be to build it as the fermentation vessels. But to go that route might get very pricy in materials cost. I don't think most people would want their wort in a cheap plastic box that isn't cheap to replace, so to be all in one like this most would want stainless.

Sorry for my drunken ramblings and auto corrects, it's late and I finally got the kids to bed so Santa could show up.

 

[BrunDog]

Like TD before me I think there is a market. Needs be standard condensed/evaporator cycle cooling though.

 

[timdillon36]

Thinking about this more I might try to do a cheap and dirty diy version if I can find a used car thermoelectric cooler, the 12v car type can be found redaly at truck stops or online but size is limited but might work great for small batch brewers.

Cooler
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0083F8YZC/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1482653155&sr=8-2&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=12v+cooler&dpPl=1&dpID=41IcW2VnI2L&ref=plSrch

Add a relay
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002KR9GG/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1482653825&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=relay&dpPl=1&dpID=41SpA1j--9L&ref=plSrch

And temp control
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002UCAG8C/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1482654056&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=mechanical+thermostat+heat+only&dpPl=1&dpID=41JJF%2BU8AbL&ref=plSrch

I have everything on hand other than the cooler to build a proof of concept setup. You can use either a heat only or cool only thermostat for this depend on how you wire the relay. Some of the other car coolers heat as well and could be used in sour brewing.

Another hack that my dad thought me in the 80s with the mechanical thermostat is it has to be level to be accurate, so if you mount it so it can pivot at the top and you put stop pegs on the side at the bottom the you can make it work further outside of the range, ex if a heat only has a low setting of 50 but you want to set it to 40 you can tilt the whole unit. At least that's how the one was in our garage that we kept at 40.

 

[timdillon36]

Like TD before me I think there is a market. Needs be standard condensed/evaporator cycle cooling though.

If it was built that way I think that both heating and cooling should be built into the same heat pump.

One advantage of peltier that I didn't mention is orientation as well as no compressor hump.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I think there is a market too.

As much as I love the DIY side of the hobby, not everyone is into making their own rigs. There are a lot of ready-to-brew sculptures on the market that people buy.

I'd be very tempted by a modular system. Say a central glycol chiller/heating system that you could hook up multiple fermentation boxes to...hmm...that wouldn't be too hard to make...

 

[Norselord]

Frank001:

Curious to get an idea of how much people would be willing to pay for a fully integrated fermentation chamber?

bfrerich:

Depends on the price.

Frank001:

Clearly missed the point of the original post. :/

Not to add toxicity to this thread, but:
* I think he pretty much NAILED the point of the original post.
* If you don't think he did, then maybe you need to be more explicit with what your point is.

Some of my major points:
Are you thinking of developing this as an item that you want to produce? The first thing you need to do when considering bringing a new product to market is to consider what the product environment is. If you haven't even bothered with that, then I suggest you stick to lurking on homebrew threads.

What exactly is a non-statistical poll? Is that like an approximate thermometer?

Can you answer, or do you know how to go about getting the information to be able to answer the following?

How to roughly estimate manufacturing cost
How to calculate a major component of start-up cost
What information to provide to get a detailed estimate
What a typical estimate includes
Why a Product Development Strategy is critical
How patents and manufacturing are related
How to get your idea ready for a manufacturing estimate​

 

[mongoose33]

Frank001:

Can you answer, or do you know how to go about getting the information to be able to answer the following?

How to roughly estimate manufacturing cost
How to calculate a major component of start-up cost
What information to provide to get a detailed estimate
What a typical estimate includes
Why a Product Development Strategy is critical
How patents and manufacturing are related
How to get your idea ready for a manufacturing estimate​

Sounds to me as if he needs to consult George Foreman and his friends at InventHelp.

.

 

[passedpawn]

Frank001:


bfrerich:


Frank001:


Not to add toxicity to this thread, but:
* I think he pretty much NAILED the point of the original post.
* If you don't think he did, then maybe you need to be more explicit with what your point is.

Some of my major points:
Are you thinking of developing this as an item that you want to produce? The first thing you need to do when considering bringing a new product to market is to consider what the product environment is. If you haven't even bothered with that, then I suggest you stick to lurking on homebrew threads.

What exactly is a non-statistical poll? Is that like an approximate thermometer?

Can you answer, or do you know how to go about getting the information to be able to answer the following?

How to roughly estimate manufacturing cost
How to calculate a major component of start-up cost
What information to provide to get a detailed estimate
What a typical estimate includes
Why a Product Development Strategy is critical
How patents and manufacturing are related
How to get your idea ready for a manufacturing estimate​

OP asked how much you would pay for something. I thought that was pretty clear - the answer should have included a number. What OP didn't ask 1) would you buy such a thing, and 2) advice on bringing a product to market. Though, those are fine additions to this thread.

The description was pretty vague. For example, if it only could temp-control one carboy / 5g at a time, I wouldn't buy it at any price. That's why my comment above pointed out that I get LARGE chambers that can hold 4 or 6 at a time. I can then keg and carbonate in the same chamber.

I'd like to hear a better description of what the OP is thinking about. There are already wine coolers / small fridges that can double as a fermenter, and of course there are $$ glycol-jacketed conicals if you like the bling.

 

[augiedoggy]

If it was built that way I think that both heating and cooling should be built into the same heat pump.

One advantage of peltier that I didn't mention is orientation as well as no compressor hump.

And you can reverse the voltage and the peltier goes from cooling to heating.. but then there's the fact that the peltier is so inefficient that over time it becomes a lot less cost effective vs a more efficient compressor style cooling solution.

 

[passedpawn]

And you can reverse the voltage and the peltier goes from cooling to heating.. but then there's the fact that the peltier is so inefficient that over time it becomes a lot less cost effective vs a more efficient compressor style cooling solution.

I"ve worked with them a lot. They are very cool (pun!). But like you say, they are power hogs. And, you must have air flow over the hot side or the cold side won't get to the differential you are looking for.

 

[frank001]

Non-statistical poll: poll void of any statistical relavence.
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/st...a/statistics-overview/v/statistical-questions

Education will set you free!

But thanks for your coaching on ME101. I will refer back to your guidance when I get past the informal discovery phase of my now appearant unoriginal idea.


Passedpawn: it was not intentionally vague, but I can see why that might lend itself to maybe leaving a responder with more questions then the simple number answer I was looking for. What I am learning though, is others have given this a thought. I am continually impressed by the ingenuity and creativity of this community.

At the end of the day, I am just some board auto engineer that is tired of working for the man and looking for my "jumps to conclusions mat." My grandfather was an entrapueneur with several us patents, so I struggle with the idea that I haven't done something like that yet

Anyway thanks for your valued response

 

[frank001]

Also without spell check I am nothing. I am not ignorant to my spelling/grammar. :/

 

[passedpawn]

I don't like the tone in this thread. You guys have to chillax. I'm shutting it down. See you round the forum.