No sparging?

[eon]

Something is happening when I brew and I'm not sure why.

I'll mash for an hour.

Then I'll recirculate the wort to make sure it runs clear. When it runs clear, I barely open the spigot on my mash tun and slowly let the wort fill my brew kettle.

Now aren't I supposed to sparge AFTER this? The only problem is: 99% of the time, I can fill my brew kettle (4 gallon brew pot) with these first runnings...no sparging done at all.

Another thing is this - maybe I am doing the math wrong, but things are not adding up.

For example, tomorrow I am brewing a 3 gallon recipe with 7 lbs. of grain. So to figure out my mash water I use - 1.25 quarts x 7 = 16quarts or 4 gallons.

This is great because I have a 5 gallon mash tun.

But to sparge, the calculation is 1/2 gallon per lbs. of grain

so, 1/2 x 7 = 3.52 gallons of water.

4 gallons + 3.52 gallons = 7.52 gallons of water

If this is the case, is my mash tun too small to make a 3 gallon batch of beer? What's going on here?

I'm brewing tomorrow so would appreciate any help or advice. Thanks!

 

[Singletrack]

First figure the total water needed. If you want, say, 5 gal in your BK to start the boil, you need 5 gal + grain absorption. Grain absorption may be 0.12 gal per lb of grain. You may also need to add some volume for dead space. (Or just tip the tun to minimize dead space.)

Once you know this volume, then you can figure your mash ratio. If 1.25 qt/lb gives you your full BK volume, then you can skip the sparge. If you want to sparge anyway to get better efficiency, then you will have to mash thicker.

You should also check total volume in the mash tun to make sure it will fit.

 

[day_trippr]

You left out grain absorption...

Cheers!
[edit] "Slow Hand"

 

[eon]

Here's my grain bill:

6 lbs. Pale 2-row
9.6 ounces crystal 40
4.8 ounces Midnight Wheat
2.5 ounces Chocolate malt

That is 7.03 lbs. of grain or 7 for the purposes of this conversation.

I have a 5 gallon mash tun
I have a 4 gallon brew kettle

so...

1.25quarts x 7 gallons - 16 quarts or 4 gallons of mash water

I heat up the 4 gallons of mash water and then put it into my mash tun. Throw the 7 lbs. of grains in the mash tun and let it sit covered for an hour.

After the hour, I recirculate a bit of the wort until it runs clear. When it runs clear, I slowly fill up my brew kettle with this wort. No sparge needed.

Are you saying this is ok? Because this is the way I've always made beer lol

 

[gwaugh]

I would like a little more info on your procedure but a few ideas:

There are 3 basic methods of sparging.

Fly sparge, in which you slowly drain or pump from the mash tun into the boil kettle while simultaneously adding sparge water from the hot liquor tank into the mash tun at the same rate you are running off.

Batch sparge in which you can drain the mash tun then add sparge water into the mash tun to rinse the grain of residual sugar and then drain again.

No sparge, where you add all of the water needed to the mash tun and then run off into the boil kettle.

All 3 methods have positives and negatives but all 3 are effective.

When you calculate your water requirements you also need to figure your loss in the mash tun and evaporation rate during the boil.

 

[Singletrack]

Are you saying this is ok? Because this is the way I've always made beer lol

No, you cannot make beer that way.

Ha. Yes, you can, but you really should start by figuring out how much wort you want, then perform a few calculations to decide how much strike water and sparge water to use.

 

[eon]

I would like a little more info on your procedure but a few ideas:

I found a black IPA recipe for 5 gallons online. I scaled that recipe to 3 gallons because I only have a 4 gallon brew kettle and a 5 gallon mash tun.

Then I added up my total grains: 7.03 lbs.

Then I did the mash water calculation:

1.25 quarts per lbs. 1.25 x 7 = 16quarts = 4 gallons

So, on brew day I will heat up 4 gallons of water to my mash temp. when I reach my mash temp, I will pour the 4 gallons into the mash tun. Then I will add my 7 lbs. of grain. Then I will cover and let sit for an hour at my mash temp.

Then I will recirculate some of the wort until it runs clear. Then I will slowly fill my 4 gallon brew kettle almost to the top. 99% of the time when I make beer like this I NEVER sparge. There is no need to because I always have enough wort to fill my kettle the first time.

Then I boil my wort, add the hops, cool down, pitch the yeast and wait three weeks. Then I bottle and wait two weeks. Then I drink!

And THAT'S how I have always made beer wrong or right Lol

[You] need to figure your loss in the mash tun and evaporation rate during the boil.

I have no idea what my evaporation loss is and like I said, I'm not sure what my loss is in the mash tun because most of the time I have enough wort to fill the brew kettle on the first run. I have a feeling though that tomorrows beer will require me to sparge which in that case I will batch sparge.

Most of the time, if I have enough wort from the first runnings of my mash, I just fill up my brew kettle all the way and then boil and on and on and on...

 

[Singletrack]

You are saving some calculating time this way, so carry on. Seems that it works for you. No sparge is fine. Efficiency may be a little less, but that may not matter much to you. Have fun!

 

[eon]

I just want to make the best beer possible. I do care about efficiency, but am not sure how to go about all of that.

 

[bramptonbrewer]

There must be something wrong with your calculations because there is no way you can put 4 gallons in your mash tun and end up with 4 gallons in your BK after first running. The grains are absorbing some of the water.

 

[DaleP]

1.25 quarts/pound times 7 pounds equals 8.75 quarts. Which is no where near 4 gallons. You should lose 1.05 quarts to grain absorption and figuring no loss to dead space yields 7.7 quarts of wort. To get your boil amount of 4 gallons you would need to sparge with 8.3 quarts of water. Did I miss something in your first post?

 

[burninator]

1.25 quarts per lbs. 1.25 x 7 = 16quarts = 4 gallons

No, this is only about 9 quarts. Where are you getting 16?

 

[AnOldUR]

I agree with the working backwards plan.
Also, shooting for two equal runnings is a good way to maximizing efficiency.

rough numbers to show how the math works:
3 gallons wanted in fermenter
3 + 1 gallon boil off = 4 gallons in kettle at start of boil
4 / 2 = 2 gallons for each of two equal runnings
2 + 1 gallon grain absorbsion / dead space = 3 gallons dough-in liquid
3 + 2 gallon sparge water = 5 gallons total water required

Ref: 3 gallons or 12qts @ dough-in w/ 7lbs of grain = 1.7 qts/lb

As long as your pH isn't out of wack, it's been shown that mash thickness plays little roll in the quality of your beer and that thinner mashes can be more efficient. Anywhere from 1 to 2 qts/lb is a safe ratio to avoid pH problems.

 

[Hello]

It does sound like you're missing grain absorption here; however, however you achieve 4 gallons of wort in your kettle is one thing. Putting 4 gallons of wort in a 4 gallon kettle is almost a sure-fire way encounter a boil over. Also, are you sure you only boil off 1 gallon per hour? I truly think in a 4 gallon kettle you should aim for 3 gallons of wort max. You can top off in your fermenter if you want, but putting 4 gallons of liquid into a 4 gallon container seems like a bad idea.

No sparge works well but I have found I need to use a little more grain to account for the efficiency loss. That could just be me though.

 

[AnOldUR]

What Hello said. I didn't notice you're boil size is limited by the 4 gallon kettle.

If you don't want to top off (I wouldn't), restricting yourself to 2-1/2 gallons to your fermenter would be a safer way to go.


edit:
although if your boil-off is less you may get a little more into your fermenter and be able to adjust the numbers

 

[McKnuckle]

What you're doing is actually pretty easy to explain. You're calculating your mash volume wrong, then adding the incorrectly calculated (too high) amount to the mash tun. In essence, you're unintentionally mashing with a full volume of water that happens to fit your kettle. You're doing no sparge.

You'll lose about 0.11 gallons per lb to absorption. So your 4 gallons starting volume goes down to 3.23 gallons. This fits your kettle. You then boil off what, 0.75 gallons in an hour, and end up with about 2.5 gallons of wort to ferment.

It's fine. Carry on.

 

[eon]

Awesome, thanks!

If I want to mash at 148F how hot should I heat my strike water?

 

[kombat]

1.25 x 7 = 16 quarts = 4 gallons

I found your problem.

How on earth do you multiply 7 by 1.25 and get 16?

You should be mashing with 8.75 quarts (just over 2 gallons), not 16. You'll lose about 0.1 gallons per pound of grain (absorption), or 0.7 gallons (2.8 quarts), meaning you should collect around 6 quarts (a gallon and a half) of first runnings. Since it's a 3 gallon batch, and assuming you lose, say 0.5 gallons per hour to the boil off, you'd need another 2 gallons of sparge water.

EDIT: Haha, I guess I should've read page 2 before responding.

 

[kombat]

If I want to mash at 148F how hot should I heat my strike water?

That depends on your equipment and the recipe. It will likely take you a few tries to dial in your system. Software like BeerSmith will calculate such things for you automatically, once you've accurately specified your equipment profile. But for now, you're going to have to just make some educated guesses.

On my system, if I preheat my mash tun with hot tap water (around 120° F), and for an average 5 gallon recipe with 10 - 12 lbs of grain, and a target mash temperature of 148° F, BeerSmith has me heat my strike water to 158.8 (I round up to 160). That gives me time to give the mash a good stir, and allows for a slight cooling during the mash.

Try that on your system, and measure your mash temperature. If you're way high, add some cool water and stir. Have a little kettle of boiling water handy in case you're too low. Keep track of whether you were high or low, and how much you missed by, so you can adjust your strike water temperature for your next batch.