No hops brew

[reggofcal]

I just took a gallon of brown nut ale and experimented with it.I put a Fresno chili in the boil instead of the hops.no hops only chilis and also added some honey. I boiled it for an hour, cooled it and then let some red star pateur red yeast dig in.Hope it's good

 

[Revvy]

It's going to be a sweet and sour "beer" in a few days.

Without hops you have no preservatives against souring.

You better drink it young.

Look up gruits.

The exclusive use of Gruit herbs in Europe started to change around 1100AD when it was learned that hops were a very good antiseptic, meaning that they retarded the growth of bacteria and preserved the ale longer then the herbs did. Gruits received their walking papers in 1516 when Bavarian brewers adopted the tenets of the Reinheidsgebot. Remember also that there was no refrigeration in those days and a batch of brew would last only so long with just alcohol and the herbs or hops to prevent spoilage. Because of this bacteria problem the brews of that era were stronger in alcohol and bitterer then today’s beers.

 

[lowtones84]

Yes, definitely look up gruits Not for everybody, but I made two batches that were very nice.

Here's to experimenting, though!

 

[reggofcal]

So I should drink it right after fermentation or bottle it and let it sit a week. If I put a campden tablet in the beer wouldn't it stop infection and the sour taste.

 

[reggofcal]

My gruit beer taste good it is sweet with some heat.

 

[OldWorld]

Hops are not needed for beer preservation. That is a stupid myth perpetuated by the religious orthodoxy. It's a good idea to add an antiseptic herb to the mash such as mugwort or yarrow...but hops are absolutely not necessary at all.

I have made plenty of no hop beers without souring.

 

[lowtones84]

Very true, very true. The yarrow, sweet gale, marsh rosemary (and others, mugwort etc.) taste isn't for everybody, but around half of the people I let try my gruit really loved it. I need to make another batch sometime soon...but I still like hops too.

 

[Revvy]

Hops are not needed for beer preservation. That is a stupid myth perpetuated by the religious orthodoxy. It's a good idea to add an antiseptic herb to the mash such as mugwort or yarrow...but hops are absolutely not necessary at all.

I have made plenty of no hop beers without souring.

Because the preservative agents in the herbs did the same thing as hops, acted as a preservative but usually to a lesser degree than hops.

Make some wort and don't add anything, just pitch yeast...and tell me if it won't sour....

Anyone whose made a starter in the middle of summer knows that without some form of preservative, (and hops are whether you believe it or not) it'll be sour in a couple of days.

In case you missed it here's some more references.. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hopless-beer-283411/#post3519334

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hopless-beer-283411/#post3519379

Provide yours.....if you have any.

 

[lowtones84]

I think you guys are saying the same thing really. Hops aren't needed for preservation, but -something- is needed. It just seems like a lot of people don't realize that you don't have to use hops, there are other options.

 

[Revvy]

I think you guys are saying the same thing really. Hops aren't needed for preservation, but -something- is needed. It just seems like a lot of people don't realize that you don't have to use hops, there are other options.

No, actually he's spewing a bunch of pseudo history and other crap in another hopless beer thread, citing things that have been discredited both theologically and in terms of brewing history in THIS THREAD. I've cited stuff to counter his arguments, and a pretty well acknowledged brewing historian has come in as well.

He's coming off saying that hops don't preserve beer...that's a long way from what you are saying, or I am saying...he's implying they don't have a preservative effect in beer. Which is utter bull****.

In the English language I speak, when someone says

Hops are not needed for beer preservation.

The implication is that hops don't work as a preservative, that that is not their function, when in the brewing process it very well is....

 

[Rev2010]

If hops are not a preservative then how were IPA's born? Were IPA's not overly hopped to preserve beer going to India from England when lesser hopped beers over the long journey typically soured and spoiiled? Yes, they were. It's a well known fact hops do act as a preservative.


Rev.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

Just a thought, but why don't things that have no hops like mead or wine or country wines go sour then?

 

[jgerard]

If hops are not a preservative then how were IPA's born? Were IPA's not overly hopped to preserve beer going to India from England when lesser hopped beers over the long journey typically soured and spoiiled? Yes, they were. It's a well known fact hops do act as a preservative.

Rev.

That's what I have heard about IPAs as well. My brother hates over hopped beers and always tells me how it was used to aid presevation. "Too much hops is a$$" he says lol.

 

[Revvy]

Just a thought, but why don't things that have no hops like mead or wine or country wines go sour then?

Grain is different from fruit, so different things cause harm to it, and different preservatives protect it...In wine making they don't iirc deal with lactobasilus for instance, which is on the surface of grains...

In the case of wines, they use different chemicals like camden tablets to kill off bacteria that would ruin wines. Just like we add hops to beer.

Think about are bodies, different drugs treat different infections...same with beer an wine, we use the right things in the right situations.

 

[Cellarbrau]

A small amount of hops is beneficial to protein coagulation in the kettle as well. There are 2 reasons why lambics get hops even though no bitterness or hop character is desired.

 

[Revvy]

A small amount of hops is beneficial to protein coagulation in the kettle as well. There are 2 reasons why lambics get hops even though no bitterness or hop character is desired.

But also even with lambics there are types of infections that would render the beer unplalatable, isn't part of the adding of hops also to prevent those infectors from being present so those "good" bugs can take hold of the beer instead?

 

[Cellarbrau]

Is that a rhetorical question?

 

[Rev2010]

Just a thought, but why don't things that have no hops like mead or wine or country wines go sour then?

In addition to all that Revvy said, keep in mind those other forms of alcohol are typically higher in alcohol content which also acts as it's own preservative.


Rev.

 

[reggofcal]

I still have about half a gallon of my gruit in a carboy and it still taste good with no sour flavor or smell.it is also starting to mello the hotness of the beer.I am going to see how long it takes it to go sour and I will keep everyone updated.

 

[reggofcal]

Are hot peppers or chilis the same or close to hop preservatives?

 

[rexbanner]

If hops are not a preservative then how were IPA's born? Were IPA's not overly hopped to preserve beer going to India from England when lesser hopped beers over the long journey typically soured and spoiiled? Yes, they were. It's a well known fact hops do act as a preservative.


Rev.

I'm pretty sure that's a myth. IPAs of the time were pale beers of varying hoppy-ness, so I've heard. There are tons of documents from the time period that reveal that this is an anachronism.

Hops do preserve beer, though.

 

[reggofcal]

The beer went sour around first part of february but it was turning out to be a good beer I am going to be trying to control the heat next time with a litlle less peppers.

 

[ChillWill]

Maybe just do a small addition of bittering hops next time? Like 20ibu worth wouldn't be too detectable.

 

[Kidder]

I don't understand why someone would want to go through the effort of brewing up a batch of beer and not add an essential component that is meant to balance it out. It's like not adding salt and pepper to a steak before you cook it? What's the point?

 

[Revvy]

I don't understand why someone would want to go through the effort of brewing up a batch of beer and not add an essential component that is meant to balance it out. It's like not adding salt and pepper to a steak before you cook it? What's the point?

What do you mean? Some folks want to explore things like Gruits and other styles that may not have been hopped...though other folks just don't understand what role hops play and end up with sour beer.

 

[Revvy]

The beer went sour around first part of february but it was turning out to be a good beer I am going to be trying to control the heat next time with a litlle less peppers.

But that's the point...Fresno chillis don't act as a preservative to beer. That's what I was trying to tell you before whathisface decided to troll. When someone decides to start arguing nonsense or semantics in a beginner's thread then much needed BASIC info gets lost....

You NEED something to preserve the beer, in modern times hops traditionally fill that bill. It doesn't take a lot of hops do do that. You can hop a beer and not taste the hops, just like in many American Light Lagers, their IBUs are so low that you really don't detect the bitterness, yet the beer is preserved.

You can use a BG/IBU chart like this and hop your beer to around 10 ibus or so depending on your og, and have it not that detectable.

A lot of us do chilli pepper beers. I do a Chocolate Mole Porter that has won awards, but it still has hops in it.

If your goal is to make a pepper beer, then you should look at the hundreds of recipes on here.

 

[Kidder]

What do you mean? Some folks want to explore things like Gruits and other styles that may not have been hopped...though other folks just don't understand what role hops play and end up with sour beer.

Hops are an essential ingredient to beer. I know you guys have been talking about it being a preservative but it also balances out the maltiness. At least throw a little bittering hops in it. To each his own I guess. If there is another ingredient besides hops that would help balance it out then by all means go with it. As long as it tastes good to you, that's all that matters.

 

[Ultra-Medic]

I don't understand why someone would want to go through the effort of brewing up a batch of beer and not add an essential component that is meant to balance it out. It's like not adding salt and pepper to a steak before you cook it? What's the point?

I routinely cook/bake w/ ingredients removed/adjusted to understand flavor profile & the chemistry behind it. Sure more often than not the outcome is less than desirable but I've learned far more through my experimental failures than I have through following tried & true recipes. This applies to beer as well.

 

[Bradinator]

I thought that any bittering herb could be considered an antiseptic or preservative, not just hops.

I have made a couple gruits before and though enjoyable and interesting, I found myself preferring hopped beers over them. The hop-free brews I made lasted for around 3 months with no ill effect.

 

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

Years ago I made a brew with half the hops substituted with dandelion and burdoch roots - it was very nice.

 

[Revvy]

I thought that any bittering herb could be considered an antiseptic or preservative, not just hops.

I have made a couple gruits before and though enjoyable and interesting, I found myself preferring hopped beers over them. The hop-free brews I made lasted for around 3 months with no ill effect.

Yes there are, the whole discussion/argument earlier and in the other thread were about them. But the OP used NOTHING as a preservative, or thought the pepper would act as one, which it didn't.