No DME for starter can you use just yeast nutrient

[allynlyon]

I'm an idiot. I went to the LHBS to get all the ingredients for my first all grain brew. I bought the yeast and told the clerk I would just make a starter.. except I didn't buy any DME. Sigh. I do have yeast nutrient from wyeast but i assume you can't make a starter from only nutrient?

 

[BlackGoat]

A starter requires fermentable sugars. Nutrient isn't sugar, its pretty much just a fertilizer.

 

[allynlyon]

A starter requires fermentable sugars. Nutrient isn't sugar, its pretty much just a fertilizer.

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

 

[dannyhawkins]

You could use a portion of the finished wort to propagate yeast and pitch all of that back into the main batch when it's actively fermenting.
I would pull a cooled liter of finished wort and pitch yeast into that, after 8-12 hours you should have good fermentation activity and you pitch the whole contents into the main fermenter. This only delays pitching by 12 hours or so, no big deal.
I believe this is Krausening but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[allynlyon]

You could use a portion of the finished wort to propagate yeast and pitch all of that back into the main batch when it's actively fermenting.
I would pull a cooled liter of finished wort and pitch yeast into that, after 8-12 hours you should have good fermentation activity and you pitch the whole contents into the main fermenter. This only delays pitching by 12 hours or so, no big deal.
I believe this is Krausening but correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmm I didn't know i could do that. I'll do some googling to see if i can figure it out. Thanks.

 

[allynlyon]

You could use a portion of the finished wort to propagate yeast and pitch all of that back into the main batch when it's actively fermenting.
I would pull a cooled liter of finished wort and pitch yeast into that, after 8-12 hours you should have good fermentation activity and you pitch the whole contents into the main fermenter. This only delays pitching by 12 hours or so, no big deal.
I believe this is Krausening but correct me if I'm wrong.

Krausening is actually using the yeast alone for carbonation according to the googles.

 

[GrogNerd]

You could use a portion of the finished wort to propagate yeast and pitch all of that back into the main batch when it's actively fermenting.
I would pull a cooled liter of finished wort and pitch yeast into that, after 8-12 hours you should have good fermentation activity and you pitch the whole contents into the main fermenter. This only delays pitching by 12 hours or so, no big deal.
I believe this is Krausening but correct me if I'm wrong.

krausening is keeping wort from the batch and using it for bottle priming

not sure if your method has a name, but you go ahead and name it whatever you want to call it, I'll refer to it with that name and pass it along. maybe start a trend and get everyone to call it that and you'll be the dude who named it

 

[allynlyon]

krausening is keeping wort from the batch and using it for bottle priming

not sure if your method has a name, but you go ahead and name it whatever you want to call it, I'll refer to it with that name and pass it along. maybe start a trend and get everyone to call it that and you'll be the dude who named it

Haha. I had considered doing this but my thought was different. I thought maybe I could take some of the grains for the beer, make a wort and make my starter that way. But instead of separating the yeast from the wort, just pouring in the entire starter wort and all. thoughts?

We'll call it "****eno eggstracting." (Sh I teno) I didn't know that would get censored.

 

[MaxStout]

There's some controversy over this, but you could always use table sugar. Maybe add some of that yeast nutrient to help it along.

 

[GrogNerd]

Haha. I had considered doing this but my thought was different. I thought maybe I could take some of the grains for the beer, make a wort and make my starter that way. But instead of separating the yeast from the wort, just pouring in the entire starter wort and all. thoughts?

We'll call it "****eno eggstracting." (Sh I teno) I didn't know that would get censored.

sure. take pre-boil wort and make a starter with it, adding the nutrient. would totally work. but like he said, would be about 12 hours before you could pitch it

I think dannyhawkins gets naming rights. was his post with the idea

 

[ronjonacron]

sure. take pre-boil wort and make a starter with it, adding the nutrient. would totally work. but like he said, would be about 12 hours before you could pitch it

I think dannyhawkins gets naming rights. was his post with the idea

I think i remember reading tjat you dont want unboiled wort, becuase there are bugs that live on the grain. Not sure where i read that though.

 

[BlackGoat]

I think i remember reading tjat you dont want unboiled wort, becuase there are bugs that live on the grain. Not sure where i read that though.

you are correct, but when he says "pre-boiled" me means wort that was previously boiled, not wort before its been boiled. So, yes, boil the wort before pitching any yeast into it.

 

[ronjonacron]

Ah, i see ok. Wort that has been boiled previously, not after the mash, before the boil wort. Got it, good to go then.

 

[allynlyon]

I suppose I should just bite the bullet and give this a shot. What do I have to lose right? Now what should my grain to water ratio be? All my grains are mixed together and already milled so I'm going to have to use all of them instead of just using a 2row like I have seen in other recipes.

Here is the recipe I am using if it helps.

5.5 lbs pale 2 row
3.25 lbs Crystal 80
2.25 lbs Crystal 60
1lb biscuit
.5 lb carapils

Using White labs- California Ale V Yeast WLP-051

OG- 1.060

 

[ronjonacron]

Holy crystal malts batman! If those are already mixed together i would find a way to use like 1/4 of that grain and add it to some 2 row.

Edit - even 2 pounds of crystal is a lot for a standard gravity beer. I think you usually want no.more than 10-15% crystal.

 

[allynlyon]

Holy crystal malts batman! If those are already mixed together i would find a way to use like 1/4 of that grain and add it to some 2 row.

Edit - even 2 pounds of crystal is a lot for a standard gravity beer. I think you usually want no.more than 10-15% crystal.

Hmm. it's a clone recipe that I stole from here and another site. Both called for this amount of crystal though. I'm too much of a newb to know it was off. :/

 

[ronjonacron]

That is a boatload of crystal, what is it cloning? That would seemingly net a very sweet beer.

 

[allynlyon]

That is a boatload of crystal, what is it cloning? That would seemingly net a very sweet beer.

Karl Strauss - Red Trolley

 

[dannyhawkins]

krausening is keeping wort from the batch and using it for bottle priming

not sure if your method has a name, but you go ahead and name it whatever you want to call it, I'll refer to it with that name and pass it along. maybe start a trend and get everyone to call it that and you'll be the dude who named it

That's right, I felt like I was reaching a bit there. I was too lazy to look it up myself before posting. I feel like I heard that from somewhere so I don't want to claim credit. I am famous for my terrible memory so it's only a matter of time till I forget to make a starter and do this. How about calling it a "lazy starter"? First thing that comes to mind. Until we find out what it's actually called or who first used the technique.

 

[GrogNerd]

lazy starter it is!

& I was wrong, NOT pre-boiled wort. I was thinking that if you don't want hops in it, you have to take it before your hops addition.

so, boil it, after the hot break you can draw off your lazy starter, then start adding your hops

 

[Culbetron]

Yeah, you can pull if out after the hot break, or just boil it for a bit in a separate, smaller pot.

You can always to a mini-mash of grain to make a batch of starter wort before you do your real mash. It's maybe a bit time consuming, but it means you won't have to wait a whole day or two from the time your wort is done boiling to when you pitch your yeast. That's such a danger-zone for infection.

Just get a grain bag, fill it with a pound of 2-row. Mash it in a small pot with 1.5 liters of water in it at 152f for an hour. Then rinse it with 2 liters of 170f water. Then boil it, cool it, and pitch the yeast in. Starter's done, beers not getting infected.

Or make a larger amount of starter wort and freeze it for next time. You can even make starter wort using rice along with 2-row if you don't have lots of spare grain.

 

[allynlyon]

Since all my grains are mixed together I think I'll just go back to the lhbs and buy some dme today. Maybe I should be more adventurous. :/

 

[smccarter]

sure. take pre-boil wort and make a starter with it, adding the nutrient. would totally work. but like he said, would be about 12 hours before you could pitch it

That's pretty much what I've been doing. The difference is that I pull the wort after the boil. Why would you pull pre-boil? Wouldn't that present a chance for contamination?

I live in Florida where tap water is about 80 degrees, so this works very well for me. I let the wort cool in the carboy over night while the starter is going. Pitch in the morning or the next afternoon.

I'm fairly new to making starters though, so any suggeted improvement would be appreciated.

 

[allynlyon]

Actually I am going to try this... I am going to take some of the grains make a starter wort. It will be at a higher gravity, unfortunately, but I'll add yeast nutrient to help keep the yeast happy and healthy so they can handle the 1.060 OG.

What do I have to lose?

 

[allynlyon]

Actually I am going to try this... I am going to take some of the grains make a starter wort. It will be at a higher gravity, unfortunately, but I'll add yeast nutrient to help keep the yeast happy and healthy so they can handle the 1.060 OG.

What do I have to lose?

 

[GrogNerd]

That's pretty much what I've been doing. The difference is that I pull the wort after the boil. Why would you pull pre-boil? Wouldn't that present a chance for contamination?

I would pull pre-boil because I'm an idiot and that's what idiots do.

no, I was wrong about that. you're right, it would be prone to contamination

I was thinking that you would want to pull it before your hops additions (there is some debate over hops in a starter, won't get into that), but you could pull it between the hot break & adding hops or boil it separately from your main boil

 

[allynlyon]

OK I made a starter from the grain I had. It's now in the primary so we'll see how it turns out. What's the worst that can happen?

 

[davemattb]

I used grain for a starter 2 weeks ago. Added extra nutrient. This was bells yeast refrigerated mason jar since may and it took off in the starter. My 2 heart / centennial iPa should be ready for drop hop soon. Tasted fine last I checked.

 

[dannyhawkins]

How did this beer turn out? Did you make a "lazy starter" or did you do a separate mash to get a starter wort?
How was the beer with all that crystal? We have to know . . .