Newbie - this is not a breakfast stout!

[lspr_mtu]

Hey all,
I'm new to brewing and for my third batch I tried the breakfast stout partial grain kit from Northern Brewer.

Ingredients: http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1591.html
Instructions: http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/html/extract.html

The brewday went fairly smoothly, and the only real abnormality I think might be worth mentioning is that I tried using a nylon funnel filter when transferring from the brewpot to the primary, and I had a bear of a time with the filter clogging up during the trasnfer. I had to poke my finger in there and scrape the filter continuously as I poured the cooled wort into the bucket. This problem will be rectified for further batches as I am purchasing a huge stainless double-mesh strainer (14" baby!).

Other than that, everything went very smoothly. Oh, and I aerated the wort by dumping the wort between the boil pot and the primary about 14 times, but haven't tried the aeration stone method.

So now I have this beer that doesn't really taste all that "bad", but it isn't what I expected and I'm very dissappointed with the lack of "stoutiness". I originally went for the breakfast stout because I feel in love with Founders' version and wanted to try something similar. Although I didn't expect an exact match, I at least expected a strong, dark stout that I can feel in my nose as I drink. I'm not sure what I have, but it isn't as dark and opaque as I expected, and it is very weak by stout standards. But like I said, it is drinkable and actually enjoyable. (I wish I had the palet and vocabulary to explain it better than that. I need to find out where I can take some beer tasting classes.)

The other note is that this is my first time kegging, although I let it condition and carbonate naturally - but I wouldn't think that would affect taste too much at that point.

So I guess I'm just looking for clues on which aspects of the process or ingredients you think I may be lacking. If you have a more fullproof stout (any kind) recipe or kit for me to try and some brewing tips, I'd like to keep on trying until I get it right. I'm a stout-lover at heart and just don't see myself continuing brewing long-term if I can't even turn out a good stout every once in a while.

On another note I've found that, unlike my first two batches, I'm no longer getting as much of the homebrew/yeasty flavor the first couple sips of a glass of beer since I switched to kegging. I'm assuming all that flavor is floating on the top portion of the keg and will probably come out the last few glasses of the batch. Oh yeah, I used an electric stove for the boil. I don't have a problem getting 2.5 gallons to boil with my setup, but it's definitely nowhere near the point where I'm concerned about boil-overs. Is there any benefit to aggressive vs calm boil? I figured a boil is a boil.

Thanks for any help you can give. You guys are awesome - I can't believe how much knowledge there is in the collective community here. Cheers, and sorry for the long post!

 

[Hell Brew]

I think the problem is that this a low gravity beer so if you were expecting something you could chew on it just won' t have the body that you were looking for. Try something with a 1.050 gravity or bigger. This one is designed to not get you hammered, it is more of a session beer.

 

[lspr_mtu]

Something else I should mention: This batch, like the previous two batches, was bubbling fairly aggressively the morning after brewday, and all have seemed to finish up within about 2-3 days. Is this okay, everything I read says it should be 5-7 days. However, I haven't heard anything yet that suggests a quick primary is any better or worse than a long, drawn-out primary - assuming full fermentation happens and the wait isn't so long that other "bugs" get first dibs on the wort.

 

[Hell Brew]

It was a fast fermentation because of the low gravity. There just isn' t as much sugar in the liquid so the yeast have a easier time of going through it. I would still leave it for at least a week just to let the yeast finish cleaning everything up.

Also on your kegged beer having less yeasty taste you probably pulled almost all the yeast and floaties off in you first couple pints. They tend to settle to the bottom.

 

[Hell Brew]

One more thing never trust the bubbles in the airlock for checking fermentation. Always use a hydrometer to check the gravity. That is the only way to be sure it is done fermenting.

 

[lspr_mtu]

I think the problem is that this a low gravity beer so if you were expecting something you could chew on it just won' t have the body that you were looking for. Try something with a 1.050 gravity or bigger. This one is designed to not get you hammered, it is more of a session beer.

If you are talking about viscosity, I really wasn't expecting anything too thick, like a guiness or something. I expected it to pour and feel like maybe a bock. I guess I can try to describe the taste that I think is missing as a strong coffee and a bit of smokiness, especially in the nose. The bear I ended up with had none of that, and had more of a "classic" taste with little/no distinguishing features - but still an appropriate balance of sweetness/biterness - maybe just a tad on the sweet side.

I didn't expect a lot of head, but I did expect the head that was there to be very tan, or even more towards brown - it was much lighter than expected.

 

[Hell Brew]

Oh, I thought you meant that it had no body to it. I' m not really sure maybe it does not have enough chocolate or black patent malt?? Maybe someone else could help out.
EDIT: Nevermind it has no chocolate or black patent malt. Maybe that is why it does not have the roastiness you wanted.

 

[lspr_mtu]

One more thing never trust the bubbles in the airlock for checking fermentation. Always use a hydrometer to check the gravity. That is the only way to be sure it is done fermenting.

I've used a secondary on all my batches. This one I had sitting for a good 4 weeks after transferring it to the secondary. I figured as soon as there is no more danger of krausen clogging the airlock, it is ok to rack to secondary. Is that valid reasoning, or am I off?

Admittedly, I did forget to check the final gravity both a racking to secondary and prior to kegging. I assume it's too late no that the beer is carbonated to get a final reading.

Didn't know that yeast settled at bottom - for some reason I thought live floated and dead sunk. Good to know.

 

[Hell Brew]

You really don' t even need a secondary unless you are dryhopping or it is a huge beer that needs to age. You could even think of your keg as your secondary, and once you cold crash the keg everything will eventually drop to the bottom.

 

[lspr_mtu]

Oh, I thought you meant that it had no body to it. I' m not really sure maybe it does not have enough chocolate or black patent malt?? Maybe someone else could help out.
EDIT: Nevermind it has no chocolate or black patent malt. Maybe that is why it does not have the roastiness you wanted.

This is an example of my lack of ability to explain taste. Is body a physical characteristic (like viscosity) or is it taste. When I hear something described as having full body, I interpret it to mean a fullness of flavor profile (a little bitter, a little sweet, spicy, etc.) It sounds like you're describing body as a physical attribute like viscosity (hence the "beer you can chew" remark).

To summarize, the beer was about where I expected in terms of viscosity, but not in terms of color, flavor, and smell. It just didn't have that kick that I was looking for.

Looking at the ingredients list, I don't see any chocolate or black patent malt (unless that what the munich malt syrup is). I don't know, does this even look like a breakfast stout recipe to anyone out there - or do I need to try a different source?

 

[bradsul]

0.5lbs of roasted isn't very much so when it combines with all that munich malt I can see how it wouldn't seem all that roasty - the sweetness of the lactose will also work against you in that regard.

 

[lspr_mtu]

0.5lbs of roasted isn't very much so when it combines with all that munich malt I can see how it wouldn't seem all that roasty - the sweetness of the lactose will also work against you in that regard.

Would you suggest a different kit (diff producer), or modifications to the NB kit? Which specific changes would you make? Quantitative recommendations would be greatly appreciated (ie: reduce lactose by x oz. and increase roasted barley y oz.)

And if you want the gold star, a brief explaination of how you came up with those figures would be awesome. I'd like to learn from this, rather than just follow your advice and end up with better beer without any idea why or how.

By the way, "Roasty" seems like a pretty good word for describing what the beer is missing. Thanks a ton!

 

[bradsul]

I think I'd probably up the roasted to at least 0.75lbs. But since you have such a low OG that would be a lot of roasted so an extra pound of light DME would probably be a good idea.

I'm not a big fan of lactose (I don't really care for sweet stout) but I believe 1lbs is a decent amount, I would suggest adding it a little at a time to the bottling bucket next time, mix it in well (but be careful not to aerate) and taste until you get the flavour you're looking for. Create a solution by boiling it in some water so it's easy to work with.

Have a look through the stout section of the recipe database and take a look at the oatmeal stouts in particular.

 

[mrk305]

Beer for breakfast? If that's how you roll, then we recommend this mild, smooth, light-bodied Breakfast Stout. This beer is brewed with a high proportion of flaked oats, which lends a silky mouthfeel. It is low in alcohol, so it will sit well in an empty stomach.

.....mild, smooth, light bodied and low alchohol. Looks like that is what you ordered and that is what you got. When I was brewing with extracts, I would use 7 pounds of LME plus specialty grains for steeping. I only made one kit, though. I have a nearby LHBS, and I just buy ingredients.

 

[Aclay]

My first batch was the Brewers Best Irish Stout, which to my surprise turned out amazing. If you are looking for something like Founder's Breakfast Stout, don't order a "Breakfast Stout" kit, your going to have to come up with something on your own. The Founder's Breakfast Stout is an higher gravity oatmeal stout, not a breakfast stout, It is also fairly high gravity. What you did is a low ABV sweet stout. Get yourself a Russian Imperial Stout kit (they're around $50, but you can buy the ingredients separate for around $40) and do something like that. It's a lot bigger beer and has a lot more of that "Roasty" flavor you're looking for.

Another suggestion I would give to you is buy "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing," by Charlie Papazian. This should give you all the vocabulary you need to talk about beer.

 

[Bob]

This is an example of my lack of ability to explain taste. Is body a physical characteristic (like viscosity) or is it taste. When I hear something described as having full body, I interpret it to mean a fullness of flavor profile (a little bitter, a little sweet, spicy, etc.) It sounds like you're describing body as a physical attribute like viscosity (hence the "beer you can chew" remark).

To my mind, body is a physical characteristic, i.e., how full the beer feels in the mouth. This can be due to grains or conditioning.

Approached from the grains, how the grain is mashed, which grains are chosen for the grist, and/or other sources and amounts of unfermentable sugars will all impact the viscosity of the finished beer. That's why a "milk" or "sweet" stout - which contains lactose, an unfermentable, long-chain sugar - has a full mouthfeel compared to a dry Irish stout. Compare also an Imperial stout, which should have a thick mouthfeel from unfermented maltose; in this case, the beer is just BIG, and has lots of unfermented - but technically fermentable - malt sugars left over.

Approached from conditioning, how the beer is brought into condition can have a profound impact. Guinness feels very full-bodied, in my opinion, due to the nitrogen used in conditioning. A stout made to an identical recipe and conditioned with carbon dioxide has a much lighter mouthfeel and less body.

Fullness of flavor need not have anything to do with mouthfeel. You can add lactose to a Pilsner and get the same flavor profile, while significantly increasing the body/mouthfeel of the beer.

That's my approach, anyhow. YMMV.

Cheers,

Bob