New Zealand Hop Help

[stevethepirate]

Hi I have been wanting to try a recipe with some southern hemisphere hops for a while and came up with this amber ale. It is for a 5 gallon batch with a 3 gallon partial boil.

6.25 lbs. Light DME
9.00 oz. Caraaroma
9.00 oz. Crystal 60L

0.50 oz. Galaxy (13%) 60min
1.00 oz. Nelson Sauvin (12%) 15min
1.50 oz. Nelson Sauvin (12%) 5min
1.00 oz. Galaxy (13%) 5min
1.50 oz. Galaxy dry hop
1.50 oz. Nelson Sauvin dry hop

Wyeast 1028

I am mostly just not sure about whether I am over using the Nelson as I have heard it can become overbearing quite easily. Any advice or tips would be awesome thanks!

 

[Double_D]

If you're doing 3 gallons this looks more like an IPA without enough bittering hop. I wouldn't worry about the nelson though it's just there in the flavor stage of the boil.

 

[StokedBrew]

+1 on the bittering hops. Scale back a hair on the 15 min addition and triple the 60 minute. That looks like a great beer then!

 

[stevethepirate]

I see what you guys are saying about the lack of a 60 minute addition. I did a measurement with my equipment and realized I can fit a 4 gallon boil in there so I tweaked the additions a bit with the increased utilization. I want to keep the total IBU's at about 40 (I want a solid balance between the hops and the malt presence), so i increased the the 60 minute addition to provide 20 IBU's and then the 15 and 5 minute additions provide 10 a piece. Is that a little better of a ratio or should I scale it even more towards the 60 minute addition?

 

[Double_D]

Go higher on the 60 min addition and ignore the IBU contributed by the later additions it's mostly flavor oils. I'm not an expert on the isomerization thing but for what you're doing those IBUs are negligible.

 

[TriggerFingers]

My first experience with NS and Galaxy is with Surf Brewery's "Southern Swell"

Ventura's "Surf Brewery" ~ Beer/Menu

It was their best brew IMHO. The aroma from the IPA was what I would call "tropical and/or "pretty."

TF

 

[stevethepirate]

Thanks for all the help. I have tweaked it again to a point where I like it and it's really good to know about the late addition IBU's as this is my first hop forward beer. My next question would be whether the dry hop amounts are too high or not?

 

[Double_D]

I think you're ok for an amber

 

[dcp27]

nothing against it, but thats awfully highly hopped for an amber. I think it'll be great, but its like twice as much late hops as an amber should have.

 

[stevethepirate]

I am going for a highly hopped amber with this recipe as i wanted to use my southern hemisphere hops in something other than an IPA. I just felt like experimenting a bit with the more prominent malt in an amber when paired with the tropical notes of both hop varieties. I have tweaked the recipe so it is not as late hop dominant as the original one and measured the IBU's iusing average instead of tinseth as it seems to be more accurate for my system and it came out right around 40 for the new recipe so i'm just gonna rock and roll and see how it ends up. I will update when it is all finished. Thanks again for all the suggestions and help!

 

[Thehopguy]

i think your original recipe looked fine. looked more like a really hoppy pale ale, which is my kind of beer. when I make ipas and pale ales, i like to go for lower initial bitterings, as not to make it too bitter and make it very flavorful and aromatic with late additions. and those new zealand hops would make it taste and smell amazing!

 

[IffyG]

ignore the IBU contributed by the later additions it's mostly flavor oils. I'm not an expert on the isomerization thing but for what you're doing those IBUs are negligible.

I disagree with this statement. Most of my pale ales are made with hop bursting and I use larger quantities of hops at the later additions. Without running the numbers, I'd say he is going to get a significant amount of IBUs out of the later additions (mainly because they are high alpha hops).

 

[ravensbrew]

I disagree with this statement. Most of my pale ales are made with hop bursting and I use larger quantities of hops at the later additions. Without running the numbers, I'd say he is going to get a significant amount of IBUs out of the later additions (mainly because they are high alpha hops).

I agree completely with this statement. If you want a hoppy beer, don't discount hop bursting!

My current house pale uses Galaxy and Citra all added at 15m and 5m left in the boil and it is absolutely fantastic, rave reviews all around.

 

[Double_D]

I disagree with this statement. Most of my pale ales are made with hop bursting and I use larger quantities of hops at the later additions. Without running the numbers, I'd say he is going to get a significant amount of IBUs out of the later additions (mainly because they are high alpha hops).

He ran the numbers. About ten IBU. I wasn't suggesting against large additions at the end of the boil for flavor. I swear by it. But he's not making a pale ale or an IPA he's making an amber that he wants to be hoppy. Just that the actual contribution of bitterness from late additions in relation to the bittering hops are in question.

 

[IffyG]

I just plugged in his late hop additions into Beer Smith for a 4 gallon partial boil and I'm showing 35 IBUs from just them which is on par with my experience. That's quite a bit of IBUs from late additions and if he doesn't want a super bitter beer, it needs to be kept in mind.

Keep in mind I don't use true 'bittering' hops when I'm brewing my beer, I rely on the high alpha hops I use in the hop bursting to get the job done. I'd say Nelson and Galaxy are both high alpha hops and adding a high bittering charge at the beginning on the boil will produce a super bitter beer.

 

[Double_D]

I just plugged in his late hop additions into Beer Smith for a 4 gallon partial boil and I'm showing 35 IBUs from just them which is on par with my experience. That's quite a bit of IBUs from late additions and if he doesn't want a super bitter beer, it needs to be kept in mind.

Keep in mind I don't use true 'bittering' hops when I'm brewing my beer, I rely on the high alpha hops I use in the hop bursting to get the job done. I'd say Nelson and Galaxy are both high alpha hops and adding a high bittering charge at the beginning on the boil will produce a super bitter beer.

Man, that's weird because this is what I got. I even used a 3.5 gallon finished volume and boiled down. It must be because I put the late additions in as aroma hops.

 

[Double_D]

Man, that's weird because this is what I got. I even used a 3.5 gallon finished volume and boiled down. It must be because I put the late additions is as aroma hops.

Anyway, the point is moot. He didn't post his updated recipe.

 

[stevethepirate]

The new hop schedule I have come up with while taking into account the 4 gallon boil is:

0.35 oz. Galaxy at 60min
0.50 oz. Nelson at 15min
1.00 oz. Galaxy at 5min
1.00 oz. Nelson at 5min

the dry hops are the same as before.

I think this is closer to what I was originally looking for and I'm stoked about the increased utilization from the 4 gallon boil leaving me enough left over hops to get another beer out of them.

 

[stevethepirate]

I just brewed this on Sunday and it went great. It smells amazing and is fermenting away right now. I'm going to be adding the dry hops in another couple of days most likely and will update again after bottling.