New to Brewing/Mead

[creelbm]

Greetings. My wife and I are beekeepers who're interested in trying mead. I have two work colleagues who are long time beer brewers who are going to help out. I've acquired and read through a copy of The Complete Guide to Making Mead by Steve Piatz.

For us, honey supply isn't an issue, at least for a couple of batches a year. This past year we got 4 gallons, which is not a lot compared to some beekeepers, but a lot for us. We've thought about committing 2 gallons this year, and maybe the same amount or a little more in future years if our hives stay steady. Our honey is a medium colored wildflower honey, and changes somewhat year to year. I don't expect batches done the same way one year to the next will turn out the same. That'll be a bit of the fun.

We've purchased buckets/carboys and basic gear, and will borrow anything we need until we buy it.

I'm looking to try Piatz' basic straight mead recipe for a 5 gallon batch/carboy:
14 lbs. honey
5 grams Go-Ferm
1 packet 71B-1122 yeast
4 grams Fermaid K
8 grams diammonium phosphate

OG 1.115
FG 1.010

In addition, I coincidentally got a bunch of blackberries, steam-juiced them, and have 3 1/2 pints or so. I'd uneducatedly thought about doing a 3 gallon batch version of the above recipe, replacing some water with juice. We tentatively bought a 3 gallon carboy for this batch. However, I've looked through the forums, and it seems like that's not a lot of juice. If we sized the batch down, what volume should I shoot for? Piatz has you add the honey first, then add liquid, and dial in the OG with a refractometer/hydrometer. Any thoughts on what that sort of batch would look like? I'm uncertain about getting honey to initial total liquid ratios.
Alternatively, we could just do a 3 gallon batch with a different yeast, to compare to the first. Or a smaller batch. I can take the carboy back to the shop, as we haven't used it yet.

We're looking to get a refractometer, and our friend is going to give us his old hydrometer he doesn't use.

Please advise me if I'm missing something from reading through the forums. The refractometer should be good at the beginning when starting the mead. Piatz has me check the density 2-3 times daily in the stirring phase (days 2-9)with a hydrometer, which seems like a lot of liquid used up. Can't I just use a refractometer? There's calculations/adjustments online. Do I need to use those in this stage? We stop stirring/degassing, and let it go until day 21, when we put it into the carboy. The carboy looks pretty full, so is there a lot more liquid at the beginning than you need to fill a 5 gallon carboy? He does a hydrometer test at this point. He then checks the hydrometer (semi regularly?) through the secondary fermentation process until it's stabilized. Going from one picture to the next, it doesn't look like he's lost any volume. He then clarifies/bottles. We should probably check the gravity at the end.

I have this feeling from reading that a lot of liquid is lost using a hydrometer, and it seems like you have to do it a lot. Something about my understanding seems wrong. I'd rather go with the refractometer all the way, and do corrections, but...

 

[CKuhns]

Welcome to the forum,

WOW there is a lot of info and questions here. Obviously you have done a lot of research and looks to me like you are on a pretty good path.

Mead is not beer - no brewing here, only fermenting.

Refractometers are OK for Mead just be sure to do the corrections. I have one but never use it anymore. I only use a hydrometer and you really only lose 50-75 mL or so for each reading. BUT,,, I only check it once daily until 1/3 sugar break and every other day until 2/3 break then just let it go until near completion. Yes absolutely should check your gravity at or near the end and IMO the only way you will know if your ferment is done is when you get two readings a few days to a week apart that do not change.The great thing about having the 50 - 75 mL is you then can taste your Must and is the best way to determine how well your ferment is progressing.

You will lose some volume when racking from primary and again from secondary and once or twice in tertiary. Your fruit and or juice will make some of that up.

Consider adding 3 - 4 pounds of Fruit in secondary for your 3 gallon batch and about 3 pounds of honey per gallon. Adjust your water volume in primary to get your target gravity and if you want to use the juiced berries replace some of the water with your juice 1 for 1 in primary.

Some additional info and or ideas can be found here...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=587928

 

[Maylar]

Read the newbee guide at gotmead too...

http://gotmead.com/blog/making-mead/mead-newbee-guide/the-newbee-guide-to-making-mead/

 

[bernardsmith]

hi creelbm and welcome. I am very envious of you and your access to your own honey. But even so, despite the fact that experienced mead makers often typically ferment 5 gallon batches there is no iron clad law of nature that requires novice mead makers to begin with 5 gallons. Experimenting with one gallon batches (using anywhere from 1 - 3or 4 lbs of honey per batch) would seem to me to offer two huge advantages that the larger batch cannot - and that is 1) allows you to develop your skills and protocol five times faster (you can make 5 batches of 1 gallon for every 1 batch of 5) and 2) the "cost" of making 5 gallons (about 25 bottles) that you need to close your eyes and swallow because the taste is so meh is far smaller than putting aside a single gallon (5 bottles) of yuck! Just because experienced mead makers say that it is just as easy to make 5 gallons than 1 is not always the sole criterion in your decision making, Being able to make a good mead with some certainty is perhaps more critical...

 

[creelbm]

CKuhns, thanks for the feedback. I've read that the hydrometer is always accurate; it eases my mind a little that there's less loss than I'd envisioned.

In terms of rough additions, for a small batch with the blackberry juice, I think that I'm interested in just going with the juice, and not a secondary addition. I know the flavor may come out muted, but...we're new to this, and have the honey to burn. You're suggesting that I use 3 lbs. of honey per final gallon (9 lbs. total), and use the fruit juice in replacement of some of the water. Will that come out too muted a flavor, or should I size down to a 2 gallon batch? Or even 1 gallon? I have about 3 1/2 pints of juice. We additionally have 2 cups of juice I steam-juiced from some pomegranates, that I could add in, but that might muddy the flavor as well.

Would it be better just to nix the fruit juice, go away from that idea, and try a second straight mead with a different yeast?



Maylar, that's a great link, I've bookmarked it. It comes at some of the process from a different angle than the Piatz book, which is nice.



bernardsmith, we may go this route of small batches if we want to experiment in the future, or with the fruit this round. I'm not sure that
we'll go horribly wrong with a first round 5 gallon batch, and the wife points out that if it's somewhat meh, we can make mead spritzers. One thought I've run across that we'll try in the future is prickly pear mead, which apparently is quite good. We live in the SW, and there's a lot of the cacti around, and in season the fruit are easy to find.

 

[bernardsmith]

All good stuff. My one concern is that sometimes novice mead makers who attempt to make high ABV meads often produce meads that are extremely "hot" (full of fusels) and such meads can take years (literally) to become close to being pleasant. Moreover, the higher the ABV the longer a mead takes to age even in the hands of the most seasoned/experienced mead maker. The upshot of this is that if it takes 1-2 years or longer before the mead is desirable (you can drink it if all you want is the buzz from the alcohol - won't do you any harm) then it will take YEARS to develop /improve your mead making skills. If that is not an issue then large volumes of high ABV meads are a fine way to proceed.

 

[creelbm]

bernardsmith Interesting. Is the recipe I've put up top considered a high ABV mead? When I look at the list of yeasts in the Piatz book, Narbonne is listed as 14%, which seems at the bottom end of the ranges for all of the yeasts.

At the moment, we don't plan on doing large numbers of consecutive batches of small amounts of mead through the year. The plan is for this to be a couple times a year thing. If it sits for a while, in a closet, that's fine. What I do hear is that maybe my second 3 gallon batch should be a straight mead, but different yeast, maybe lower alcohol tolerance, to get something different and more quickly drinkable.

Hmm. I look over at the gotmead.com blog that Maylar recommended. Their yeast recommendation in the basic recipe is Lallemand RC212, which lists an alcohol tolerance of 16%, higher than the 71B. That seems even worse!

Another Lallemand yeast, just because I'm looking at that page, is ICV D47, also 14%. A little search online finds gotmead.com again, and folks talk about it coming out not hot, semisweet and very citrusy. That sounds interesting. If that's 14%, and it's coming out not too hot, then I think 71B might be ok.

 

[CKuhns]

In terms of rough additions, for a small batch with the blackberry juice, I think that I'm interested in just going with the juice, and not a secondary addition. I know the flavor may come out muted, but...we're new to this, and have the honey to burn. You're suggesting that I use 3 lbs. of honey per final gallon (9 lbs. total), and use the fruit juice in replacement of some of the water. Will that come out too muted a flavor, or should I size down to a 2 gallon batch? Or even 1 gallon? I have about 3 1/2 pints of juice. We additionally have 2 cups of juice I steam-juiced from some pomegranates, that I could add in, but that might muddy the flavor as well.

Would it be better just to nix the fruit juice, go away from that idea, and try a second straigt with a different yeast?

Juice works fine in primary, think Cyser. The juice in primary adds mouth feel and rounds out flavor. Seriously consider a straight Mead 3 gallons or so then splitting it into one gallon secondaries leaving one as the "control" and experimenting with fruit, spices, oak etc. Bernard made a good point,at this stage in your Mead making hobby see what works, keep the good stuff and or your practices that get you the results you want and stop doing the stuff that doesn't work for you. Oh and even if some of the experiments are kind of weird early on they will definitely get better with age.

 

[AkTom]

Also do 1 gallon straight honey. Then you'll have top off for other meads.

 

[bernardsmith]

The tolerance of yeasts is one thing, ABV of wines or meads is quite another. Most wines are about 12% - with good reason because much above 12% ABV (a starting gravity of about 1.090) most wines need special attention to ensure balance among alcohol level, acidity, richness of flavor, tannins. With fruit (grapes and country wines) the flavor comes from a source other than the fermentable sugars, with honey flavor and sugar content are one and the same (for all intents and purposes) so to produce a more intense flavor in a traditional mead (honey, water, , yeast (and nutrient) mead makers often turn to adding more honey but when you increase the honey: water ratio the SG rises and when the SG rises the ABV is likely to rise too (unless your intention is to produce a very .sweet mead). Just because a yeast CAN tolerate solutions of 17% ABV does not mean that such solutions are in fact in balance and so offer a pleasurable drinking experience. You REALLY need to know what you are doing (IMO) to produce a high ABV mead. A "hot" tasting mead is not something that most people want unless all they are looking for is the buzz from alcohol, but if that is all they want just add some honey to a glass of vodka or scotch.

 

[creelbm]

bernardsmith I don't understand, and it's probably because I've never fermented/brewed before. The book/yeast says the yeast has 14% alcohol content. My understanding from reading around is that I won't go over that, and will probably go under, from inexperience in fermenting. Folks seem to think that's not a crazy/high level of alcohol. If the recipe above, from the Piatz book, starts at a OG of 1.115, that seems higher than your 1.090 for 12%, it also seems to end higher (1.010) than the numbers I'm seeing around, which seem like ending gravities of closer to 1.005/1.000 sorts of numbers. The physicist in me is used to a couple of percent error in a quick first-check experiment, but...I understand the numbers matter here. Unfortunately the book doesn't say, but I read the higher ending gravities as that meaning it ends up sweeter? Or semi-sweet?

I naively read the recipe at the beginning as being a relatively middle-road ABV yeast, and he's adding in extra sugar/honey at the start, so the yeast will play out/crap out somewhere in the 12-14% region, with extra sugar left over. Partly so you won't have exploding bottles down the road, and it will definitely be still. No? I honestly have no idea what I'm doing, but if you can explain it differently...

I'm not shooting for 600% alcohol. I'm just using the suggested starting recipe in the book. Is it wrong?

The alternative is to use a different yeast, with a lower alcohol tolerance? Nothing in the book has a lower alcohol tolerance. Everything's listed as 14% or higher, so it seems to me like this is about as low as I can get, and not a high ABV, like a champagne yeast. Thoughts?

 

[creelbm]

Juice works fine in primary, think Cyser. The juice in primary adds mouth feel and rounds out flavor. Seriously consider a straight Mead 3 gallons or so then splitting it into one gallon secondaries leaving one as the "control" and experimenting with fruit, spices, oak etc. Bernard made a good point,at this stage in your Mead making hobby see what works, keep the good stuff and or your practices that get you the results you want and stop doing the stuff that doesn't work for you. Oh and even if some of the experiments are kind of weird early on they will definitely get better with age.

Ok, so what does the ingredient list look like for a 3 gallon? I spoke with La Jefa, and she wants to go with 5 gallons straight, racked into a 5 gallon carboy as above, and then she'd like to use the blackberry juice as a separate, smaller batch. Looking more closely at it, we have a shade over 3 pints of juice. What volume should we be aiming for to use this volume of juice? The recipe above has us dump in honey, then water to get to 1.115. Do we do the same with the juice? Dump in honey (how much?), then add the juice (a shade over 3 pints), then adjust water volume to get the right OG? What volume does that end at? 1G? 2G? 3G?

Thoughts?

 

[bernardsmith]

The posted tolerances for yeast are like the posted tolerances for chains and ropes. You don't rely on the rope or chain being able to support heavier loads but they probably support about 50% greater strain than published. A yeast listed to have tolerance to 14 % will likely continue to ferment another 3 or 4% ABV without too much difficulty. But this is subject to murphy's law - so if you NEED or WANT the yeast to deal with 16% ABV it will almost certainly peter out at 14%.
And yes, a gravity at the end of fermentation that is at 1.000 or higher suggests some residual sweetness. (alcohol is less dense than water so any alcohol in solution with water would result in a gravity below 1.000 (say .996). BUT perception of sweetness will depend on the balance among alcohol content and acidity among other things.

 

[matew90]

hi guys,,i made my first batch , i m writing on several threads
wanna know few things..
Whats normal PH value for mead ??
How can i lower PH value of Mead,,with citric acid in the begining??
THX

 

[creelbm]

Ok, I had the fellows over, and we tried two batches. For the first, I went with the Piatz recipe. 14 lbs. of honey, then water added to 1.115 OG on the hydromeger. The second batch, we took the 3 1/2 pints of blackberry juice (OG 1.045), and added honey/water until we got to 1.115 OG on the hydrometer. For the fruit batch, I overshot just a tiny bit adding honey, with water to balance, so the volume will be a little larger than expected, though not much. I'll update ya'll with the results. Thanks for the help.

 

[koniowsky717]

The tolerance of yeasts is one thing, ABV of wines or meads is quite another. Most wines are about 12% - with good reason because much above 12% ABV (a starting gravity of about 1.090) most wines need special attention to ensure balance among alcohol level, acidity, richness of flavor, tannins. With fruit (grapes and country wines) the flavor comes from a source other than the fermentable sugars, with honey flavor and sugar content are one and the same (for all intents and purposes) so to produce a more intense flavor in a traditional mead (honey, water, , yeast (and nutrient) mead makers often turn to adding more honey but when you increase the honey: water ratio the SG rises and when the SG rises the ABV is likely to rise too (unless your intention is to produce a very .sweet mead). Just because a yeast CAN tolerate solutions of 17% ABV does not mean that such solutions are in fact in balance and so offer a pleasurable drinking experience. You REALLY need to know what you are doing (IMO) to produce a high ABV mead. A "hot" tasting mead is not something that most people want unless all they are looking for is the buzz from alcohol, but if that is all they want just add some honey to a glass of vodka or scotch.

i was also following that same recipe.. i noticed if i followed it exactly, it would only come out to be about 4.6gal.. i adjusted it to -

-16lbs honey
-10g 71b-1122
-12.5g go-ferm
-? fermaid k

with this, i can get a SG of 1.115 for 5gal batch.. this should have an AVB of about 15%.. If i lower honey to 15lbs SG would be 1.108, which seems to be the go to for these starter meads.. is what im going for with a SG of 1.115 going to make it more sweet or "hot"? and by hot, do you mean strong? I purchase this one mead from a local brewshop thats 19% and i love the stronger taste.

 

[creelbm]

The tolerance of yeasts is one thing, ABV of wines or meads is quite another. Most wines are about 12% - with good reason because much above 12% ABV (a starting gravity of about 1.090) most wines need special attention to ensure balance among alcohol level, acidity, richness of flavor, tannins. With fruit (grapes and country wines) the flavor comes from a source other than the fermentable sugars, with honey flavor and sugar content are one and the same (for all intents and purposes) so to produce a more intense flavor in a traditional mead (honey, water, , yeast (and nutrient) mead makers often turn to adding more honey but when you increase the honey: water ratio the SG rises and when the SG rises the ABV is likely to rise too (unless your intention is to produce a very .sweet mead). Just because a yeast CAN tolerate solutions of 17% ABV does not mean that such solutions are in fact in balance and so offer a pleasurable drinking experience. You REALLY need to know what you are doing (IMO) to produce a high ABV mead. A "hot" tasting mead is not something that most people want unless all they are looking for is the buzz from alcohol, but if that is all they want just add some honey to a glass of vodka or scotch.

So, we're a week and a half into the process. On day 13, having started in the evening of day 1 at 1.115, we're at 1.024 and it's still cruising. We'll see what happens; you may be exactly right in that this will be scorching hot, and we may need to do something with it, or let it sit for a while. It's an experiment. If it's too hot this time, we'll try the 1.090 starting point next time.

 

[bernardsmith]

OK - and despite what many mead makers say and do on this forum it is really possible to make a mead where the ABV competes with session beers. Again, You need to know what you are doing but you can certainly make a very quaffable (by the pint) mead that uses no more than 1.25 -1.5 lbs of honey in each gallon. You can prime this (so that it is sparkling - carbonated)) and you can hop this (to add more flavors) or add different fruits (cranberries, lemons etc) - though I would add fruits that are very acidic to the secondary and not the primary (honey has no chemical buffers to control pH and the yeast can make the pH drop to the floor , stalling fermentation in midstream. .

 

[madscientist451]

I'm with bernardsmith, except you can go even lower ABV if you want to. The main problem with wine strength meads is that if you don't know what you are doing they will come out with lots of off flavors that make them really hard to choke down. Some of these flavors age out in a year or two, some don't. Everyone has different taste, maybe some people like mead that tastes like rocket fuel, there's no right or wrong tastes. And hey, if you get one two glasses of it down, you don't really notice after that anyway!
The good news is if you hunt around and find the right information about supplies and techniques, you CAN make a decent wine strength mead that is drinkable relatively young, right from the start. If you haven't searched for and listened to all the available podcasts, that's a great place to start.

 

[creelbm]

So, today was day 21. We opened up the fermenting bucket, and got a big whiff of honey-booze. We siphoned into the carboys. We ended up with 4 gallons of the straight mead, with a SG of 1.002. That calculates as 15% ABV. It was warm, but not hot to the taste. Good honey taste, a hint of sweetness. Overall, much better than I had been fearing. No terrible off flavors, just honey and some warmth. We ended up with 1.5 gallons of the blackberry melomel. It had a similar SG reading. Not a huge in your face berry flavor, but that was expected with just adding juice in the primary fermentation. A very nice viscousness on the tongue, that we didn't note in the straight mead, and fruit taste. Overall, also good. Both were muddy flavored, but that was the suspended yeast. I'm not sure I expected that.

It was very drinkable (though not a lot) even at this moment. Here's hoping that it will be better after letting it sit through secondary. It was bubbling strongly, sounding like an open can of soda, through about day 12-13, and then it slowed down drastically.

We'll see how this goes. Maybe next year, or this spring, we'll try the 1.080 starting SG as suggested above.

 

[cjcalico]

Another brand new mead brewer here with a few questions about fermentation. First, I followed a very basic recipe:

15 lbs honey
4 gallons bottled spring water
Fermaid K
Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast

Today is 21 days after pitching so I transferred to secondary. The must is VERY sweet and that there was almost no sediment at the bottom of the bucket. Gravity reading is 1.046, so I suspect the yeast failed. I did check it pretty much every day for the first 10, and the airlock was bubbling, although nothing like my beer batches. Thoughts?

 

[SimPilot]

Standard question. What was OG?
You might have met yeast alcohol tolerance if OG was too high.

Few options if stalled - use more aggressive yeast to continue fermentation. Or dilute it with water to a desired sugar content/taste and enjoy low-abv drink.

 

[CKuhns]

"Today is 21 days after pitching so I transferred to secondary. The must is VERY sweet and that there was almost no sediment at the bottom of the bucket. Gravity reading is 1.046, so I suspect the yeast failed. I did check it pretty much every day for the first 10, and the airlock was bubbling, although nothing like my beer batches. Thoughts?"

Some thoughts - Mead is not beer - It sounds to me like you still have an active ferment taking place.
- Day 21 with an Original Gravity that was pretty high but not unreasonable and now a SG of 1.046.
- 21 days is a bit long to get to 1.046 but not unreasonable especially if you did not stagger your nutrient addition and or aerate well or check your pH (TOSNA 2.0 or 3.0)
- Could it be "Stalled" - Sure could be. Couple of things to try. Mix / suspend your lees a couple times a day for the next few days, raise the temperature 5 deg F and wait it out. Check your SG again in a few days if still dropping - your good. This one could take another 20-30 days ro more to "finish"

 

[cjcalico]

Update. I let it sit for 11 months then bottled. I compared it to a commercial traditional mead, and mine tastes almost exactly like it I should get another going now ... any recipes for mead that is more dry? I like it, but my wife would prefer one that is less sweet