New to BIAB. Kettle volume query.

[GJaundrell]

Hey guys. Long time lurker, new poster.

I'm a newbie when it comes to brewing. I've only assisted in a friends brews so far and he has a 3 vessel system. I've researched plenty for the last year, and I'm finally ready to get into this hobby full time myself, and BIAB seems great to me.

So I'm looking into getting this BIAB kit from a shop in Ireland (I'm England based), which i've linked below:

https://www.geterbrewed.com/biab-all-grain-starter-kit-includes-a-mash-kit/

So the kettle/pico boiler is a volume of 7 gallons (32 litres), and the all grain kit provided is equal to 6kg, and makes a 5 gallon (23 litre) batch.

Now, is it possible to do a full volume mash in this? The boil volume is fine for the boiler (28 litres, so there's 4 litres of overhead), but when I've checked on BIAB calculators it seems the mash volume will cause an overflow. Do you reckon I should do a sparge instead of mashing at full volume? Or perhaps stick to doing 3 gallon batches?

Thanks,

Gary

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi Gary, welcome to HBT and BIAB brewing!

I think you already know the answer...
Your 7 gallon kettle will not hold all the milled grain plus all the mash water needed for a 5.5-6 gallon batch.
Use a BIAB calculator such as this one at The Screwy Brewer to see what your mash and sparge volumes will be. My guess the max is around 5 gallons of mash (strike) water + the grain. That will yield around 4 gallons of wort after the mash.

Here's a typical all grain scenario:
For a 5.5 gallon batch you'll need 7 gallons of post-mash wort. You'll boil off one gallon during the hour and 1/2 gallon is left with the trub. That puts 5.5 gallon in your fermenter. When you package 1/2 gallon will be lost to more trub and the yeast cake. 5 gallons net in bottles or keg.

So in your case, you'll want to sparge the bag in the remaining water you'll need, around 3 gallons. Use a large bucket, an large igloo cooler, or other large spare vessel of some sort. Dunk a few times then drain/squeeze. This will rinse more sugars from the wet grain, raising your efficiency.

Since you can only boil around 5.5-6 gallons comfortably in a 7 gallon kettle, you'll need to top off during the boil with leftover wort from the sparge.

This all sounds way more complicated that it really is.

Make sure your grain is milled finely for BIAB to give you good efficiency. 85-90% mash efficiency is very attainable with BIAB due to the finer milling. The sparge also helps gain efficiency, less sugars left in the grain.

 

[tofuguy]

Hi and welcome to the hobby! I am a full volume BIAB Brewer, and I will say for a 5 gallon batch you will need to start with 8 - 9 gallons of water and with the grain, you will be sitting close to 9.5-10.5 gallons in most cases. So you will need to sparge with this proposed system, or reduce your batch size to 3.5 gallons or so.

You can reduce the starting volume by finding ways to reduce boil off, or squeezing the mash. But I'm both cases combined, you may save 0.5 - 1 gallon.

 

[GJaundrell]

Thanks to both of you IslandLizard and tofuguy. It's always nice to get a confirmation from experienced brewers.

That sounds great, I'll make sure to request a fine milled grain to raise my efficiency. I may look into getting a large boiler to save the hassle, but either way you've both confirmed that is infact doable by sparging.

I'll make sure to use that BIAB calculator. It's a lot more in depth that any i've found so far.

Thanks!

I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[LittleRiver]

... I may look into getting a large boiler to save the hassle...

I started out with a big kettle. I do full volume mashes, and I really like how that simplifies the process. I've never had to worry about or clean up a boilover. So I highly recommend a big kettle, it was definitely one of the better decisions I've made.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just looked at the equipment kit you linked to. I'm not familiar with that boil vessel. Looks like a plastic bucket with a heating element in it. It also has a SS false bottom apparently. Depending on various geometries, e.g., how high up that false bottom is placed, you may deal with a large "deadspace" under that false bottom.

2.4 kW is a lot of heat energy. How large (long) is that heating element? Is is always on full power or is there a way to turn it down? I'm quite sure they've tested the system. One thing to keep an eye on is possible wort scorching if the element is really short (high watt density).

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Very interesting kit, seems like a lot of gear for the money my immediate concern would be that element burning the bag. As recommended 100% use a BIAB calculator and remember you can always boil off excessive water to achieve your volume or add water if you fall short it's not the end of the world. Did you see any reviews for this kit?

 

[IslandLizard]

my immediate concern would be that element burning the bag

They mention a SS false bottom is included to prevent that. I'm concerned about the amount of dead space under there during mashing.

I've seen a picture (or video) here on HBT, years ago, discussing "ghetto" rigs, where the guy had a water heater element screwed into an orange Homer bucket that was boiling like crazy! I think the caption was a rebuttal on something: "No! This is ghetto!"

 

[GJaundrell]

Very interesting kit, seems like a lot of gear for the money my immediate concern would be that element burning the bag. Did you see any reviews for this kit?

yeah there has been high praise on their recent facebook post about this particular kit. As lizard said, there is a false bottom included, but to be fair, I won't be applying direct heat to it during the mashing process will I? Only to get the strike water temperature, so Is it needed?

There was an episode on basicbrewing podcast that talked about the these ghetto kits, and they're all the rage in Australia.

Is there anything else you reckon I should question the company about? I've just sent them a query regarding the element, asking if there's any sort of temperature control.


[EDIT} it wasn't Australia - it was in Sweden they use these set ups

 

[GJaundrell]

They mention a I'm concerned about the amount of dead space under there during mashing."

Do you reckon it'd benefit from some sort of re circulation pump, so the dead space at the bottom isn't an issue?

 

[GJaundrell]

there is a false bottom included, but to be fair, I won't be applying direct heat to it during the mashing process will I? Only to get the strike water temperature, so Is it needed?

I just realised to get to a mash out temp, I'll need the element firing, so yeah I guess I will need the false bottom.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I just realised to get to a mash out temp, I'll need the element firing, so yeah I guess I will need the false bottom.

Also your trying to hold a mash temp for an hour the bucket with have 0 insulation if your temps fall your going to want to raise them. I wrap my kettle in blankets during the mash to help with this

 

[LittleRiver]

I just realised to get to a mash out temp, I'll need the element firing....

Plenty of people, including myself, have great BIAB results without doing a mashout step. When the mash is done I remove the insulation, hoist the bag, and fire the burner for the boil. The bag drains into the kettle during the boil.

 

[GJaundrell]

hoist the bag, and fire the burner for the boil. The bag drains into the kettle during the boil.

Great! Thanks LR. Do you have some sort of pully device, or do you drain the bag in a large sieve above the kettle or something?

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Great! Thanks LR. Do you have some sort of pully device, or do you drain the bag in a large sieve above the kettle or something?

I use a pully from the ceiling in my garage dirt cheap and works great

 

[LittleRiver]

Great! Thanks LR. Do you have some sort of pully device...

Yes, I use the pulley kit that I got from Wilser when I bought my bag. I put the ratcheting pulley on bottom, and a second plain pulley up top. That gives me a 2:1 mechanical advantage which makes the bag easy to lift, and it keeps the ratchet release down low where it can be reached. Check out this post.

 

[Kharnynb]

while I'm not saying that it's bad as such, I would concider something steel for brewing vessel, the bulldog brewer is local to you and i've been using it for a few years now with much succes.

 

[GJaundrell]

I use a pully from the ceiling in my garage dirt cheap and works great

Yes, I use the pulley kit - Check out this post.View attachment 595649

Thanks guys. I'll look at fitting something like this. Seems like a simple enough job, and handy if it's a large grain bill.


I think I'm just gonna bite the bullet and get it you know... I figure that if after my first BIAB i find the boiler is too small, I'll just pick up a large stainless steel kettle for around £100, and I can place the element in that (no gas burners around).

 

[GJaundrell]

bulldog brewer is local to you and i've been using it for a few years now with much succes.

Thanks Kharnyb. That'll be the place I'll look for if I take the SS kettle route.

 

[GJaundrell]

Infact, I remember the malt miller do cheap large kettles. Plus they charge about a tenner to cut a hole in for a tap or an element. So I'll probably get this.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/50-litre-stainless-steel-pot/


Btw, I hope i'm allowed to post links here? I don't know the proper forum etiquette I'm afraid.

 

[IslandLizard]

Btw, I hope i'm allowed to post links here? I don't know the proper forum etiquette I'm afraid.

Links to products you've got an eye on are fine, like that one. As long as you aren't shilling, have a stake in it, or the sites are spam holes. Use "common" sense, you're doing OK.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you reckon it'd benefit from some sort of re circulation pump, so the dead space at the bottom isn't an issue?

You could recirculate, but if you can't add controlled heat during recirculation, you're losing more heat. Heating at that (full) power level will denature enzymes very rapidly.

The main concern with large deadspaces is that the liquid trapped in there (water/wort at whatever ratio) is not available to the mashing process.

 

[mongoose33]

Remember that one reason for doing BIAB is simplicity and ease of brew day.

IMO, what you want is a kettle that is 38 liters/10 gallons. That will give you enough room to get it all in there without much difficulty.

I never do a mashout with BIAB either. And as others noted above, to maintain the proper temps for mash, wrapping in blankets, quilts, sleeping bags, whatever will work well. Simplicity and ease--the hallmarks of BIAB. Let it be that.

********

A couple of notes. Strike water temps are lower for BIAB because there's more water for the grain to cool down when doughing in. When I did a normal mash/sparge thing with 4-gallons strike water and 4-gallons sparge water, I'd heat that strike water to (typically) 168 degrees fahrenheit. When I switched to BIAB, with something like 7.5 gallons of strike water, 160 degrees worked. Of course, it depends on what you want your mash temp to be as to what temp works.

Generally brewers mill the grain finer with BIAB. That allows conversion to proceed faster than with a coarser-milled grain. Not unusual to have it completed in 20 or 30 minutes. I always left it for 60 minutes anyway, because i also wanted to make sure i got all the flavors out of the malt in addition to the sugar. What that means is holding the proper temp for the entire hour isn't as important as with a slower conversion.

One other thing I had to get used to was that the burner retained heat that was fed into the kettle after I turned it off. I'd get the water to, say, 160 degrees, but if I waited a couple more minutes, it had risen to 163 or so. I realized I needed to stop short of my target knowing that it would rise a bit more. It depends on your setup as to how much this will matter, just be aware of it.

 

[GJaundrell]

A couple of notes.View attachment 595650

I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to help me out. This is some really useful info!