New Guy Kolsch Fermentation WWYD

[Immocles]

Hey folks,
I'll start off by saying I am basically brand new to the game. I have only a few extract kits under my belt but I am absolutely hooked on this whole thing. I can't remember being this into something in quite a long time, I am sure a few of you can relate to that feeling haha. Anyway, my wife talked me into ordering an Kolsch kit with Wyeast 2565 so she would have something a little bit more her style than the darker ales I have made. I have had decent luck fermenting my previous brews upstairs in the corner of the living room, but the temperature swings from about 65F during the day, and drops to around 54F during the night when we adjust the furnace. I have explicit orders that I am not to run the furnace all night only to keep my beer warm, which I think is a complete crock, but the hammer has landed so to speak. I'm worried that this particular beer won't enjoy that much temperature swing. My other real option is to ferment in the basement, which stays between 52-57 pretty religiously, unless it gets subzero outside. Is this too cold?
I guess long story short, what is my best option? What would you folks do in these circumstances? I don't have the spare cash lying around to invest in anything right now, and I work long hours so Id be unable to constantly monitor and micromanage it. I know how to follow the directions on the kit, and have read up a bit on the yeast itself. It appears that it does enjoy things on the colder side, but my worry is that the basement is too constantly cold, and that the 10-12degree swing upstairs will be detrimental. I am looking at brewing this weekend. My plan as of now is to leave it upstairs a week and wrap a beach towel around it at night and roll the dice on the temp swing not being too major on the finished product, then move the fermentor to the basement for an additional 2-3 weeks before bottling. Am I on the right track?

Also, sorry for the long post. Woof.

Thanks!

 

[dmtaylor]

Welcome to the madness.

If you put your fermenter into a tub of water, the temperature won't swing as much. Or just let it swing.

Please note that 2565 is indeed a finicky yeast. Don't expect it to finish and clear for a good 6 weeks or so. However your patience will be well rewarded.

Cheers.

 

[Immocles]

Thanks for the quick reply! Yes I had read it’s pretty fussy, but I’m not in any rush. I planned on letting it sit close to four weeks primary (I don’t have a secondary carboy...yet) and hoped a couple weeks in the basement inside the bottle and a good week in the fridge would clean it up respectfully. Just can’t decide on those first weeks. Argh!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Either location will work fine. If it were me, I would opt for the basement for a couple weeks, then warmer (above 65F) for a few days (we call this a diacetyl rest). After bottling or kegging, refrigerate it for at least 3 weeks before sampling. As dmtaylor mentioned above, a tub of water will definitely smooth out the temp swings.

That yeast will not clear quickly. So don't be alarmed by haze in your finished product. In the future consider asking for Giga-021 or WLP029 with your kit, if they offer the option.

 

[Immocles]

Good to know. I’m not too afraid of cloudy beer but it’s nice to know it’ll clear as it sits. Sounds like it’ll be ready for springtime grilling then. Excellent.

 

[dmtaylor]

In the future consider asking for Giga-021 or WLP029 with your kit, if they offer the option.

2565 produces the most authentic Kolsch. Recent genetic testing suggests that WLP029 is actually a (very clean) British yeast!

 

[dmtaylor]

Good to know. I’m not too afraid of cloudy beer but it’s nice to know it’ll clear as it sits. Sounds like it’ll be ready for springtime grilling then. Excellent.

I really like your style already man... you remind me of... me. Cheers!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

2565 produces the most authentic Kolsch. Recent genetic testing suggests that WLP029 is actually a (very clean) British yeast!

Yup. One taste of 029 and you know it's not a kolsch. A few years ago on another forum I asked why 029 doesn't taste like a kolsch and I got chastised by the masses because the 029 edict said it's a kolsch yeast But... it is clean, handles cold fermentation well, readily available, and works. Probably one of the cleanest ale yeasts there is.

Personally, I much prefer the Giga 021 over 2565, it definitely has the Riesdorf-like esters and is way more flocculant. On the down side, it throws way more sulfur that needs to dissipate. My 54 degree chamber reeks bad at the moment, but it's rippin through another batch

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I’m not too afraid of cloudy beer but it’s nice to know it’ll clear as it sits

If you get in a hurry, you could do the gelatin thing after a few days of hard cold crashing. But given enough weeks or months, it will clear.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yup. One taste of 029 and you know it's not a kolsch. A few years ago on another forum I asked why 029 doesn't taste like a kolsch and I got chastised by the masses because the 029 edict said it's a kolsch yeast But... it is clean, handles cold fermentation well, readily available, and works. Probably one of the cleanest ale yeasts there is.

Personally, I much prefer the Giga 021 over 2565, it definitely has the Riesdorf-like esters and is way more flocculant. On the down side, it throws way more sulfur that needs to dissipate. My 54 degree chamber reeks bad at the moment, but it's rippin through another batch

I'm not familiar with Giga stuff. Thanks.

 

[dmtaylor]

If you get in a hurry, you could do the gelatin thing after a few days of hard cold crashing. But given enough weeks or months, it will clear.

Yup, I often give up waiting and just gelatinize then the haze is gone in 2-3 days. Cheers.

 

[Immocles]

Thank for the input guys. There was only one other yeast option and I thought I’d try something new to check out flavors of different ingredients. It’s all a giant learning experience at this point.

 

[Horseflesh]

I just finished a kolsch with 2565 and it’s very clear after about 3 weeks of chilling.

I fermented at 60F and it tastes legit to me.

 

[balrog]

Are the Riesdorf esters the winey-ness?

I much prefer the Giga 021 over 2565, it definitely has the Riesdorf-like esters and is way more flocculant

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Are the Riesdorf esters the winey-ness?

kinda sorta almost. its like a tiny hint of fruity. not quite tart. very unique to real kolsch's.

Here's an interesting tidbit... Go buy a can of Estrella Jalisco (a Mexican beer). My taste buds aren't perfect, but I would put money on they are using a kolsch yeast. It has the identical ester profile as a Riesdorf or Goffel.

 

[balrog]

Looking into Giga 21 even as you read this...

 

[RealRayDizzle]

my Kolsch recipe I keep as my main tap, though I don't have a big enough cooler to keep 15 gal batches below 70 deg in Texas summer. I have had a good amount of luck keeping the flavor very close to the style with WLP029. Maybe my water profile and grain bill make up for not using 2565

 

[juggabrew]

You’ll be pretty happy with 2565. Agree with Dmtaylor

I ferment at 60, then raise to 66 after 5 days.

 

[BobBailey]

As a side note, using the furnace to raise the temperature more than 10 degrees every morning isn't saving much energy at all. Overall, the most efficient use of a furnace is to maintain a reasonable and consistent temperature. I would consider 65 degrees to be a very efficient temperature to maintain.

When you stop to consider that allowing the temperature to drop overnight you're not only affecting the air temperature, but also lowering the temperature of everything in the house. When the heat is turned up in the morning it will cycle much more often for several hours in order to heat everything back up and eat up whatever energy you saved overnight in the process.

 

[Immocles]

As a side note, using the furnace to raise the temperature more than 10 degrees every morning isn't saving much energy at all. Overall, the most efficient use of a furnace is to maintain a reasonable and consistent temperature. I would consider 65 degrees to be a very efficient temperature to maintain.

When you stop to consider that allowing the temperature to drop overnight you're not only affecting the air temperature, but also lowering the temperature of everything in the house. When the heat is turned up in the morning it will cycle much more often for several hours in order to heat everything back up and eat up whatever energy you saved overnight in the process.

Yup. Been trying to explain that for four years. I just nod and smile when it comes up now.

 

[Soulshine2]

I used to have a buddy that was a HVAC guy, he would have tons of people who did the turn it up and down thing. He tried to explain theres no money savings at all . Most didn't listen.
Back to the OP ...Not sure if you know but there is another yeast out, K-97. Some say it is for Kolsch and have had good results with it in that use expectation . I keep different yeast on hand and take their working ranges into consideration before pitching. Might be cold for a week outside which affects my basement temps a few degrees but it may be enough of a difference for me to choose a different yeast. In the summer when its blazing hot in the high 90s ,the back wall area of my basement stays at 75*F.
I bought it (K-97)because I plan on doing a Kolsch (its an extract kit) as well and wanted a dry yeast as is my normal habit. mid 50's isn't too bad to ferment in . Place a few thermometers in your basement to see where it stays near your yeasts range. Floors are going to be cooler than ceilings. Shelf mid-way up might be just right. I keep my carboy wrapped in a 1/2 inch carpet padding and covered with a brown bath towel, 2 reasons- 1) keep those dreaded temperature swings away and 2) to keep light out . I keep 2 thermometers in my fermentation area ( countertop in my basement) its right at 55*F this morning.

 

[Immocles]

Yep, been moving our thermostat sensors all over the house looking for the best spots. Found a few areas with high hopes.

The yeast I purchased was somewhat of a mistake. I misread a few things and had thought it was dry, but it appealed to me because it seemed to do well in lower temperatures.

I think I’ll leave it upstairs a good week or so with a cover and towel before moving it downstairs for an amount prior to bottling and stacking it into the coldest corner of the basement for another few weeks.

 

[BobBailey]

Yup. Been trying to explain that for four years. I just nod and smile when it comes up now.

Understood. Sometimes it just isn't worth the energy it takes do argue

 

[wepeeler]

I just finished a kolsch with 2565 and it’s very clear after about 3 weeks of chilling.

I fermented at 60F and it tastes legit to me.

Did you taste it after say, 2-3 weeks of primary? I kegged last night and mine smells/tastes like corn/dms/artificial candy. Maybe even a slight hint of fart. It's drinkable, but I'm afraid something is off. I've also heard this yeast can be problematic...

 

[Immocles]

The yeast definitely took off a bit more aggressively than anything I've used it in the past. Kind of exciting to see. It's been happily fermenting away since Saturday night.

 

[Immocles]

Hey folks, kinda have a follow up question on this project

It's been 7 days, I plan on taking a gravity measurement later this evening and on Monday afternoon before work, and my question is that if the gravity holds steady, should I just leave it where I have been fermenting for the remainder, or will I have any adverse effects by moving it to the basement for an additional 2-3 weeks in the fermenter before bottling? winter temps down there have been high 40s low 50s pretty steady, and I don't see that changing much during the rest of January/February (possibly slightly colder, if anything ). It seems to be happy where its at, but the space would be nice to have back for say, a different brew(s) to ferment...

Thanks!

 

[Lefou]

Your beer should be safe on the yeast in temperatures of 40F and lower for several weeks.
I typically leave my beers at ambient or lower for approximately 2-3 weeks on the yeast before bottling. After the beer is carbed, THEN I cold age or "lager".
This bottle lagering method can eliminate the temperature/pressure changes you might experience when leaving a carboy of finished beer to cold age with the airlock attached. If the temperature change is significant enough you can pull the liquid from your airlock onto the finished beer.

 

[Immocles]

Hi again folks.
So this kolsch has been quieting doing its thing in the basement, looking tasty and clearing up nicely (as far as I can tell), but there is still a pretty thick creamy white foam on the top. It looks healthy to me, but I haven't ran into a beer that hasn't had the foam deplete and fall to the bottom, especially after this length of time. Is this normal for the kolsch yeast? Does it fall eventually? If not, is it advised to simply siphon to the bottling bucket from underneath the foam? I was hoping to bottle this one next weekend, to proceed with the next conditioning step.

 

[MaxStout]

I just brewed a Kolsch in November, using 2565. It held on to that foam top for 3 weeks. I cold-crashed to around 38 and let it "lager" for a month. When I bottled, it was very clear, though I inadvertently stirred up a little trub while racking. WY2565 is a very powdery yeast and some of it will stay in suspension. After conditioning the bottles had a loose layer of yeast on the bottoms but the beer stays clear, if you pour carefully.

That's the nature of 2565, but you can still get clear beer if you're willing to wait.

 

[dmtaylor]

Hi again folks.
So this kolsch has been quieting doing its thing in the basement, looking tasty and clearing up nicely (as far as I can tell), but there is still a pretty thick creamy white foam on the top. It looks healthy to me, but I haven't ran into a beer that hasn't had the foam deplete and fall to the bottom, especially after this length of time. Is this normal for the kolsch yeast? Does it fall eventually? If not, is it advised to simply siphon to the bottling bucket from underneath the foam? I was hoping to bottle this one next weekend, to proceed with the next conditioning step.

That's normal. As I said previously, it takes about 6 weeks to fall in. Eventually it will. If you get tired of waiting, you can rack it out from under, and add gelatin to get it to clear faster.

 

[Immocles]

Hokay, thanks. Maybe I’ll give it an extra couple weeks in the fermenter. I guess when I was thinking six weeks, I was taking four weeks in the fermenter and adding the bottle conditioning into the equation. I’ve got plenty of other projects that I’m fine leaving it in the bubbler for extra time since I would rather see it fall.

Thanks again, I appreciate the help, folks.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey folks, kinda have a follow up question on this project

It's been 7 days, I plan on taking a gravity measurement later this evening and on Monday afternoon before work, and my question is that if the gravity holds steady, should I just leave it where I have been fermenting for the remainder, or will I have any adverse effects by moving it to the basement for an additional 2-3 weeks in the fermenter before bottling? winter temps down there have been high 40s low 50s pretty steady, and I don't see that changing much during the rest of January/February (possibly slightly colder, if anything ). It seems to be happy where its at, but the space would be nice to have back for say, a different brew(s) to ferment...

Thanks!

If the gravity is both stable and the target finish. Leave the airlock on it to finish. Lower the temp to cc it.

 

[Immocles]

Sorry to keep kicking up my own thread!
Is this a type of yeast that I could harvest and reuse? The opt temperature for it is kind of right in my basements wheelhouse, so I have been browsing various informations about reusing yeasts. If so, is it basically leaving a bit of beer on the cake, swirling, and putting it into a sanitized jar for future use in a starter?

 

[dmtaylor]

Oh yeah, for sure you can reuse it.

 

[Immocles]

Poured the first bottle of this kolsch tonight. Tastes wonderful! Absolutely perfect with a couple olives floating in the glass. Excellent change of pace from the hoppier ales I’ve made while waiting for it to do its thing. Keeping the cases in the coldest corner of the basement (~45F)in hopes that it only gets better and better.

Thanks again for the responses and input!

 

[Bilsch]

Wait.. what? Olives in a Kölsch?

 

[Immocles]

I drop a couple olives in most beers. It just works for me.

 

[dmtaylor]

I drop a couple olives in most beers. It just works for me.

Okay, now you've lost me. And probably everybody else too. But to each their own!

 

[Immocles]

Maybe it’s a regional thing. It’s pretty common around the small towns in the area.

 

[daveMN]

Maybe it’s a regional thing. It’s pretty common around the small towns in the area.

I've seen it in northern Minnesota bars, usually in a Miller Lite. Try the kolsch without the olives. It's a great style.