New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?
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hopbrad
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speaking of dregs. has anyone soured their saison with dregs while using belle? thinking jolly pumpkin then letting it sit for a few months. wondering since it goes so low if much sour will happen
First beer with this yeast was a Vienna/Bravo SMaSH. Despite my hydrometer telling me it was bone dry it didn't really taste it, came out like an estery APA.
Second attempt was to make a more guest-pleasing beer and went with 50% pilsner/50% wheat. Has about the same gravity but subjectively tastes drier with the yeast dominating the flavor with a bit of a tangy taste. Not bad at all, goes down easy but the esters might be just a touch strong for guests.
Next week I'll be brewing up my third bath with this year. I'm thinking:
-20 IBUs of bravo for bittering and lots of bravo and summit for late additions.
-Even amounts of munich and 2-row for the base malt and just a little bit of caramunich and roasted barley, just enough to get it up to a deep red. Probably a bit of brown sugar while I'm at it.
Hopefully enough maltiness will survive this voracious yeast and there'll be enough hoppiness to balance out the esters a bit. I don't mind them, just don't want them completely dominant.
Second attempt was to make a more guest-pleasing beer and went with 50% pilsner/50% wheat. Has about the same gravity but subjectively tastes drier with the yeast dominating the flavor with a bit of a tangy taste. Not bad at all, goes down easy but the esters might be just a touch strong for guests.
Next week I'll be brewing up my third bath with this year. I'm thinking:
-20 IBUs of bravo for bittering and lots of bravo and summit for late additions.
-Even amounts of munich and 2-row for the base malt and just a little bit of caramunich and roasted barley, just enough to get it up to a deep red. Probably a bit of brown sugar while I'm at it.
Hopefully enough maltiness will survive this voracious yeast and there'll be enough hoppiness to balance out the esters a bit. I don't mind them, just don't want them completely dominant.
I went to the LHBS a few days ago to get some Belle Saison yeast, to use in a wit beer when the house is warm and I really can't control the temperature. They didn't have any, so I'm going to use T-58 instead and hope for the best. I've used T-58 before in a wheat beer (not wit) and really liked it.
Yeah, hasn't carbed up yet so I can't get the full picture. I don't like the sweetness of a lot of wheat beers and this yeast certainly took care of that despite me not using much in the way of hops so that good, we'll see what happens to the tang I'm getting from it after a few weeks in bottles.
But seems to work just fine for wheat beers in general if you account for the crazy high attenuation.
Osedax
Well-Known Member
According to the brewing publication "Yeast" you should never underpitch. You should just use a yeast with a different ester profile.
This yeast seems like a pretty resilient little guy and I'm not sure you will see much more ester production by underpitching. I have accidentally underpitched this yeast and it didn't seem to matter. Very similar flavor profile either way.
Give it a go if your up for experimentation.
I just used this yeast for the first time and rehydrated 1 packet only for a 1.054 saison. Got to 1.002 in 5 days. I doubt that's underpitching and so far, it tastes very good.
This yeast is a beast and I only got it to about 80!
This yeast is a beast and I only got it to about 80!
skunkfunk
Well-Known Member
+1. I've direct pitched a pack into un-oxygenated non-aerated 1.079 wort, 6+ gallons. It didn't care.
Pitched about 1/7th of a pack into 1gal of 1.050 wort which put it into a 90F swamp "heater". Will see what happens.
double post
skunkfunk
Well-Known Member
The_Glue said:
The_Glue said:
20 minutes apart? What?!
I had to do some work in the kitchen and after i got back to the phone it still displayed the post editor screen so i hit the submit burton but it seems like i already submitted it before i went to the kitchen
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
I've used 3711 for my saisons in the past and I'm giving this yeast a go. When I did session strength beers (1.035-1.040) I added some character malts and even special B AND mashed at 160 in an attempt to preserve some mouth-feel and body with 3711's crazy attenuation, and it still went down to 1.004ish, body intact. I'm thinking of doing one with a simpler malt bill (pils, rye, wheat) at 1.040. Would you guys having experience with this yeast say a high mash temp would still work?
P.S. the only time I didn't get a super-low FG with 3711 was in a yeti belgian imperial stout clone, which was at 1.014. That might not have even been finished, because some bottles eventually started gushing a little.
My second saison (the one with 50% pils 50% wheat and light hopping) went really really dry. Mashed high but the yeast laughed at silly ideas about mashing high resulting in higher FG and went to town anyway.
So dry it has a bit of a sour tang since there's so little maltose left to balance natural beer acidity. Still tasty and very drinkable but the esters kind of dominate a bit. Tastes like a dry "summer" hefe. Doesn't really taste "thin" like a commercial lager or somesuch, has decent mouthfeel just not even the slightest bit sweet.
My third saison (the one you're quoting about) just tastes like a mouthfull of trubby wort now, too early in the fermentation process to know yet.
SWMBO wants something sweet and low in alcohol and I don't have the temp control for anything but saison so thinking:
-2 kilos pils.
-2 kilos munich.
-450 grams crystal 40l.
-Dilute with top-off water until the gravity gets down to 1.033 or so.
-Mash high.
-Veeeeeeery few hops.
Inspired by a clone recipe for Kozel dark (very sweet but tasty malty/caramelly Czech dark lager that my wife loves) I found but without any roasted malts. Looking for something along the lines of an amber psuedo-mild, will call it Nice Guy Ale. Next up will be a saison psuedo-ESB...
skunkfunk
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest one of the trappist yeasts instead of saison yeast if you want anything resembling sweet. I suppose you could use the DuPont strain and just let it stall high?
The high mash and crystal won't help with residual sweetness. You might try WY 3711 instead. It performs the same but to me it doesn't come across as super dry. Instead of Crystal, perhaps try wheat also.
ChocolateMaltyBalls
Well-Known Member
+1 for wheat
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
So I went with 51% pils, 27% rye, 16% Wheat malt, 4% caramel 20, 2% acid malt for mash pH. Mash was way high--over 160 for the first 10-15 minutes while I stirred and checked to bring it down, then sat at 156-8 for the rest of the time. I brewed Saturday morning and Monday evening it had gone from 1.044 to 1.006 (measured at 80+ degrees), but is still super cloudy. Taste had a bit of tang, but great aroma from the zest addition I did at flameout.
Edit: this was a 4 gallon batch that I got better-than expected efficiency on, so I diluted to 4.25. That may explain some of the quick ferment, along with the warm ferm temps I used.
Edit: this was a 4 gallon batch that I got better-than expected efficiency on, so I diluted to 4.25. That may explain some of the quick ferment, along with the warm ferm temps I used.
Are there any that can do OK in hot August weather with ****-all in the way of temp control?
Think I'll just use Belle Saison since the dry yeast is easy to use. If even a bunch of caramel malt can't sweeten it up then oh well, it'll be tasty anyway.
The thing is making an IPA without much hops is dumb since that defeats the point of an IPA and making a pale stout is dumb since that defeats the point of making a stout. In both of those cases you can just make another beer instead. But making a sweeter saison isn't necessarily dumb since I CAN'T make another beer instead, I'm pretty much stuck with saisons until the weather cools down and I don't want every single beer I brew for months and months to be bone dry.
Worth an experiment at least. It'll be for guests anyway. For myself I'm eyeing making a strong Saison-braggot that'll be golden and as dry as a bone with maybe some Northern Brewer hops...
I think you'll just have to wait until the temp gets below 72 or so... anything but a saison yeast would be gross at high temps.
You could possibly go extreme by halting fermentation at your desired FG with pasteurization or chemicals, but I don't have any experience with that.
You could possibly go extreme by halting fermentation at your desired FG with pasteurization or chemicals, but I don't have any experience with that.
I got shouted down in another thread, but if you want saison and you want it sweet, add an unfermentable sugar such as lactose or xylitol. Not to my tastes personally, but this will give some residual sugars the yeast cannot chew through
ArkotRamathorn
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Yes, it'll ferment your gym socks if you let it.
So I Take it that this yeast wouldn't be ideal in a Biere de garde?
Not necessarily, Wyeast says you can use 3711 for this style but you might consider a Trappist or other high gravity Belgian yeast
I just bought a packet of Belle Saison today at the other LHBS to brew something in the summer heat, and now not sure what to do with it because of its super-high attenuation. I have a lot of American pale ale malt. I'm thinking either a high-gravity SMaSH using I'm not sure which hop (maybe Willamette). Or a Hoegaarden-ish wit using 60% pale ale malt and 40% unmalted wheat with bitter orange and coriander.
markstache
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I did a Belgian pale where I pitched wyeast Belgian Ardennes first and pitched belle saison after two days. It was a nice blend of the flavor of the ardennes year with most of the attenuation of BS.
I think you get away with the Belgian Trappist and Abbey strains at high temps. The clone of Westvleteren 12 I made called for 83+. I've actually got a Belgian specialty sitting in my basement this week that might have hit around 87-88 because I have a brew belt on it (WLP500).
Some of the guys in the club have pushed 90 and their product was excellent!
Shenanigans
Well-Known Member
I haven't gone through the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating what's been written already. 
I've brewed once with this yeast using EdWorts Rye IPA grain bill hopped with magnum Amarillo and Strisselspalt. I made the "mistake" of adding a pound of honey to make it more farmhouse-like and ended up with a 9.5% beer :cross: I had no idea it would ferment down to 1.002
It tasted really good but was by no means a session beer.
Anyway I read on an old thread here about someone doing a Great Divides Yeti RIS clone and swapping the yeast out with 3711 which turned out very good.
I think I will give this a go with Bell Saison and see what comes out.
14.5 lb pale 2-row
.75 crystal 120
.75 chocolate
.75 black patent
.50 roasted barley
.5 flaked rye
.5 flaked wheat
1.25 oz Chinook 60 mins
1.25 oz Chinook 30 mins
.50 Chinook 15 mins
I have everything here but will sub the C120 with Caraaroma.
I've brewed once with this yeast using EdWorts Rye IPA grain bill hopped with magnum Amarillo and Strisselspalt. I made the "mistake" of adding a pound of honey to make it more farmhouse-like and ended up with a 9.5% beer :cross: I had no idea it would ferment down to 1.002
It tasted really good but was by no means a session beer.
Anyway I read on an old thread here about someone doing a Great Divides Yeti RIS clone and swapping the yeast out with 3711 which turned out very good.
I think I will give this a go with Bell Saison and see what comes out.
14.5 lb pale 2-row
.75 crystal 120
.75 chocolate
.75 black patent
.50 roasted barley
.5 flaked rye
.5 flaked wheat
1.25 oz Chinook 60 mins
1.25 oz Chinook 30 mins
.50 Chinook 15 mins
I have everything here but will sub the C120 with Caraaroma.
Shenanigans
Well-Known Member
I haven't gone through the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating what's been written already.
I've brewed once with this yeast using EdWorts Rye IPA grain bill hopped with magnum Amarillo and Strisselspalt. I made the "mistake" of adding a pound of honey to make it more farmhouse-like and ended up with a 9.5% beer :cross: I had no idea it would ferment down to 1.002
It tasted really good but was by no means a session beer.
Anyway I read on an old thread here about someone doing a Great Divides Yeti RIS clone and swapping the yeast out with 3711 which turned out very good.
I think I will give this a go with Bell Saison and see what comes out.
14.5 lb pale 2-row
.75 crystal 120
.75 chocolate
.75 black patent
.50 roasted barley
.5 flaked rye
.5 flaked wheat
1.25 oz Chinook 60 mins
1.25 oz Chinook 30 mins
.50 Chinook 15 mins
I have everything here but will sub the C120 with Caraaroma.
Haha - after posting I read back a few pages and saw this was already discussed here (Yeti RIS)
Can anyone give feedback on how it turned out?
Good, bad or just OK?
skunkfunk
Well-Known Member
I made an RIS with this yeast. Different recipe but easily my least favorite stout. I give it a hearty meh.
I tasted it today (3weeks in primary @ 90) i force carbed it for a few hours.
Results:
-no wheat like banana
-no english like fruits
-no belgian like spices
Instead of them I got huge tangerine/melon notes with some funk and maybe something DMS and/or diacetyl like. Or maybe it was just green. I'll syphon the primary again a few days later for more tastings. Mouthfeel seemed kinda thin. (OG:1.050, 85% pils, 15% oats)
Now here is the bad news: I made a mistake and this was fermented with the Mangrove Jack Belgian strain instead of Belle. (I've seen a post where someone said that these two are maybe the same)
Rhumbline
Well-Known Member
I just pitched this for the first time yesterday in a Saison, my first all grain batch.
The thing was chugging along like a locomotive within two hours!
The thing was chugging along like a locomotive within two hours!
It's an incredible yeast. Carbs up faster than normal as well.
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