Last night I bottled my first saison using this yeast. I was very surprised with my low FG 1.001 but for what I read this is very common.
I used some honey Pilsen Malt and Rye Malt. Mashed for 60min at 151F... So I was expecting low FG but I'm just surprised. OG 1.063.
Hydrometer sample was good, different but good.
So, I'm in the middle of brewing a hoppy American Amber right now and thinking about my next batch that I want to make. Keep coming back to saison.
With everyone getting sub-1.005 with this yeast, what happens if you mash high? Was thinking about saison recipe with a projected OG of like 1.055. Mash high at like 157 or 158 and then use this yeast.
Any thoughts?
Yeast won't care. It eats everything. Don't worry, though, it leaves more body than you'd think.
I believe saison yeasts, and especially this yeast it seems like, produce more glycerol than others which fills out the mouth feel and body.
The body will come from the high mash temps. Higher mash temps = less fermentables and higher body. Lower mash temps = more alcohol, dryer finish, thinner body.
That wouldn't seem to be the case with this one. I think it eats the "unfermentables" too, kinda like brett. Just anecdotal experience, but this yeast is ridiculously attenuative and doesn't seem to care about the mash temp. It does chug along quite a bit longer than you would think, though, slowly lowering the FG down sometimes below 1.000
Attenuation is determined by how much maltotriose a yeast can consume before expending it's energy. Belle Saison can pretty much eat all of it (maybe even slightly longer chains).
Do what? Tell me more! Why would they need energy to consume sugar that's supposed to give them energy, and why can other microbes do it until it's all gone much more easily?
Energy wasn't the best word but, it was the shortest. The yeast needs to be able to stay healthy in the alcohol which requires strong cell walls and energy. Also, yeast need certain stored up enzymes to cleave maltotriose into sucrose and glucose before it can be absorbed. Glucose and sucrose can be absorbed right away.
Side note: lager yeast actual prefers maltotriose as opposed to glucose and sucrose. Not sure why.
Energy wasn't the best word but, it was the shortest. The yeast needs to be able to stay healthy in the alcohol which requires strong cell walls and energy. Also, yeast need certain stored up enzymes to cleave maltotriose into sucrose and glucose before it can be absorbed. Glucose and sucrose can be absorbed right away.
Side note: lager yeast actual prefers maltotriose as opposed to glucose and sucrose. Not sure why.
After reading your explanation and then the side note, my head exploded. Are you sure about that? These two statements simply cannot coexist!
Just wanted to say I've been using this yeast with amazing results in saison cysers. I am definitely a big fan. Gives great results fermented at recommended temps all the way down to 60-65 too.
Have you or anyone tried this one with just apple cider, no added sugar?
I would like to try a nice farmhouse cider with a little funk before moving on to a true Brett sour cider.
I haven't yet but it's on my list. Actually hoping to grab a couple more 1 gallon carboys today so I can start clearing my to-do test batch list. After having done that hopped cyser, I can imagine a dry cider with Belle would be fantastic. I actually want to try a graff with it. The hopped cyser just keeps getting better with age. I can't wait to bottle my 3 gallon. I want to try a lower abv version of it without it going dry on me but Belle is such a beast even at lower than recommended temps that i'm not sure how to go about it. I'll post when I start the belle graff and cider though.
I've brewed a couple saisons with this yeast and while they fermented quickly and attenuated fully, they lacked the spice of the notoriously finicky Wyeast 3724. Even bringing my fermentation temps up to 80F did not bring out very much saison character. I'm reluctant to go to 90F as I did with the 3724 (necessary for full attenuation).
Anyone have hints as to how to get more characteristic saison yeast peppery flavor and light esters? I may try a smaller pitch next time to stress the yeast a bit.
Anyone have hints as to how to get more characteristic saison yeast peppery flavor and light esters? I may try a smaller pitch next time to stress the yeast a bit.
It is not the same as 3724. If you're looking for it to be in your face like that, it's not going to happen. I took it up to 90F and it was still mild compared to the DuPont strain.
Belle is a strong attenuator that leaves behind more body than you'd think, and I think it's best just taken for what it is. I was hoping to get MORE flavor from Belle saison because it is such a great yeast.
My advice for getting the DuPont flavor without the pain in the ass is to try WLP566. I used that and didn't ever get above 76F. Nice flavor, good esters, finished quickly without stalling and no need to get crazy with the temps. I believe that is just a different sample of the DuPont strain.
BS is amazing for attenuation and leaves behind great mouthfeel, but its flavor isn't that interesting. you're just not going to get the best saison flavor out of it.Anyone have hints as to how to get more characteristic saison yeast peppery flavor and light esters? I may try a smaller pitch next time to stress the yeast a bit.
ten80 - The pepper thing is definitely something to consider if you want to use Belle or 3711 but also want that extra spice kick. There's a popular recipe on HBT that includes pepper:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/cottage-house-saison-254684/
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