Need Hop Schedule input for IPA please!

[forstmeister]

So I have a pound of each of the following:

Simcoe
Zythos
Summit

I am thinking about an IPA (most likely a 5-gallon batch) with them, but I am struggling with the hop combo/schedule...so I was hoping to tap into the great knowledge base here. I have not used Zythos or Summit before so I am not sure about the qualities of each, although I have had IPA's with Summit that really showcased the garlicky/onion side of it. I am open to any suggestions, I just want to make a good IPA that will maybe become my house beer for a while since I have so much of each hop variety as well as a ton of base malt.

On a side note, what specialty grains do you folks like to use in your IPA's? I typically just use 2-row and a little crystal for color/sweetness...but always look for ways to improve upon a recipe.

 

[Yooper]

I'm not a huge summit fan. I either get nice tangerine notes, or onion smell. I can't pinpoint why that is, so I normally only use it for bittering (and won't buy it anymore once this supply is gone).

For IPAs, I have a couple of recipes that I like with crystal malt, up to 5%.

But I have just as many that I like that use 0 crystal malt, and instead amber malt (small amount), aromatic malt (for a strong malt backbone), victory (wonderful toasty flavor, without sweetness), biscuit malt (dry, biscuity notes), or honey malt (not common for me to use, but occasionally I want sweetness).

 

[bobbrews]

Of those three hop varietals, I prefer Summit for bittering and Simcoe & Zythos late and in the dryhop. But I would not be opposed to also including some Summit late and in the dryhop as well... Just as long as it does not dominate.

The exact hop schedule will be dependent on your goal for this beer. Do you want something more fruity, citrusy, piney, dank, citrusy, etc? Sticky and sweet or dry and crisp? Bracingly bitter, smooth bitterness, or in between? Knowing exactly what you want is key to designing the appropriate hop schedule in an IPA. It is the reason why you might prefer 60/30/0/DH or FWH/15/5/0/DH.

For a choice of fermentables other than the usual suspect "American 2-row", I typically like to cut it with some of the following: English 2-row, wheat malt, pilsener malt, rye malt, light munich, Crystal 10-40, honey malt, or corn sugar (if applicable). Many of the darker and richer grains are just too deep, toasty, sweet, and nutty for my tastes in an AIPA.

 

[forstmeister]

Thanks for the input. I have some Maris Otter on hand too that I may use. Rye sounds good too. I haven't used it lately.

What about a combination of all 3 hops at 60,30,15, and flameout? Maybe a 1/4 oz of each?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the input. I have some Maris Otter on hand too that I may use. Rye sounds good too. I haven't used it lately.

What about a combination of all 3 hops at 60,30,15, and flameout? Maybe a 1/4 oz of each?

For a IPA, .75 ounce of hops isn't much at all for flavor and aroma. I'd skip the 30 minute addition, and either go later in the boil for flavor, or earlier (at 60 minutes) if you need the IBUs.

Like this:
Bittering addition- 60 minutes (or to get you to 40 IBUs or so with this addition, depending on your OG)
1 ounce hops 15 minutes
1 ounce hops 5 minutes
1 ounce hops flame out
Dryhop with 2-3 ounces

 

[ApothecaryBrewing]

I have found that more than one bittering addition (60-30 addition) is pretty much a waste. I agree with Yoop on this. It is about accentuating the flavor and aroma of the hops, not just sky rocketing the IBUs.

I brewed a Rye Pale Ale that was over 100 IBUs because I am a hop head and wanted the world to bow at my feet. I had 3 additions before 30 minutes. I was left cowering in a corner, spooning my kettle wondering where this offspring of mine had gone wrong.

So yeah... weight the hops towards flame-out for a rainbow filled happy train of hop love.

 

[bobbrews]

I see a couple people saying 30 minute additions are a waste. Keep in mind, even 90 and 60 minute additions add flavor. While not as intensely fruity/citrusy/piney as a 10 or 0 minute addition, they are still adding something to the beer other than a one note bitterness stripped of any character. Take a look at some IPA clone recipes by some of the top dogs: Russian River, Lagunitas, and Firestone Walker to name a few. Sometimes they hopburst, sometimes they don't. But more than often, they add a significant amount of early and middle charges. And they use hops like CTZ, Simcoe, Summit, Chinook, etc. for these slots. This definitely affects the flavor profile of the finished beer vs. using Magnum or Horizon. And despite having +270 theoretical IBUs, Pliny's actual IBU count doesn't exceed 90 and it comes off as very smooth for a double IPA. So there is certainly something there that you're missing out on.

Now I tend not to blow 4 oz. hops before 30 minutes like PtE, but for about half of my IPAs, I've found that a small 60 minute addition combined with a small 30 minute addition of a low cohumulone, high alpha hop helps to give me a rounder bitterness that is equivalent to the smooth effects offered by FWH, without wasting so much hops. It also gives me an IPA that doesn't taste like a fruity hop juice drink, and more like "beer" that is still very aromatic with the flameout and dryhop additions.

Now, I would not use Citra or Amarillo at $4 an oz. for a 60/30 minute addition. But I would use a highly aromatic, flavorful, and affordable American Pacific Northwest hop at these spots. I am definitely not calling anyone out and I totally respect your personal method of brewing IPAs. But I do suggest you try it for yourself instead of regurgitating what you may have heard in some of these threads. 90-60-45-30 minute additions with characterful hops are not a waste as long as they are affordable. You're not simply getting a one note bitterness from those times. This is why I dislike supremely clean hops like Magnum. It's stripped of 95% of the hop character we normally see in High Alpha, Pacific Northwest hops.

 

[ApothecaryBrewing]

$4/ oz. for CITRA!!??? Where are you buying from? Plenty of online suppliers are selling them for under $3./oz. I myself just bought 4 oz. for roughly $10.

I didn't mean to say multiple early additions are a waste, I just prefer the rounder, more full flavor you get from hopbursting at the end of the boil.

 

[forstmeister]

I appreciate the input everyone. I will probably use Summit at the beginning of the boil, then a bunch of Simcoe and Zythos from 15-0, and maybe even dry-hop with a combination of the 3.

 

[bobbrews]

@VT - I was just using a loose example. But yes, there are certain hops that are much pricier and in higher demand that it would be a shame to waste them on early & middle additions. However, if they were affordable and readily available, I wouldn't mind so much to use them wherever I pleased. As long as I saw positive benefits in the final beer. Make sense?

 

[forstmeister]

FWIW, I got all these hops in a group buy for about $8 per pound. Cost is not a factor in this decision...luckily