Need help on my BIAB day

[BrewByBerg]

Hey guys,

I just had my second BIAB yesterday with a 16.5lb grain bill. I was making a double IPA, and shooting for 1.080 gravity.

In beer smith I have just selected the 5 gallon all grain equipment setup and this put me in range for 1.080

I mashed for an hour, and instead of squeezing my 16lb grain bag, I just dumped about 2.5 gallons of 170degree water (sparged) on my grain bag and let it run through. My final gravity was around 1.062....

I later was playing around with beer smith and selected the BIAB option and tweeked my numbers and now my Target OG was 1.067, much closer to my OG.

Is this normal for BIAB? Using this much grain and I can only get an OG of 1.062? Should I have squeezed the bag? Please let me know your thoughts, thanks!

 

[BigJack]

Assuming a standard crush, BIAB is somewhat less efficient than 3-tier brewing, so your numbers are not shocking.

Next time out, crush as fine as you can without just making flour.

And yes, always squeeze. Squeeze that bag like it owes you money. Get every drop of sugar out of that bag that you possibly can.

Also, don't sparge. Put your full volume of water in the mash.

A great crush and a great squeeze can get you up to 80%.

 

[BrewByBerg]

Assuming a standard crush, BIAB is somewhat less efficient than 3-tier brewing, so your numbers are not shocking.

Next time out, crush as fine as you can without just making flour.

And yes, always squeeze. Squeeze that bag like it owes you money. Get every drop of sugar out of that bag that you possibly can.

Also, don't sparge. Put your full volume of water in the mash.

A great crush and a great squeeze can get you up to 80%.

Thanks for the response, I guess I'm still learning trial and error with this method. My last BIAB I squeezed it and got a little better efficiency.

Also I only have a 10gallon pot, on my last BIAB I used my full volume of water, then when I added my grains it was over flowing. Couldn't even imagine what it would be like with 16.5lbs.

Any idea how to battle that full volume problem?

 

[adiochiro3]

Use a bigger pot or dunk sparge.

 

[chickypad]

I can't fit a full volume mash either when I BIAB so I dunk sparge in a second pot. You could do it in a bucket if needed. I found I get much better efficiency dunk sparging (and stirring the crap out of it) than using a pour over sparge. I tend to get around 76-79% with a regular grainbill, 70-72% on really big beers. Yours looks to be down in the low 50's which I agree is pretty low. I would definitely consider your crush, how are the rest of your parameters like temp, are you checking pH?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

You can get similar efficiency from sparring, maybe 2-5% lower. Use as much strike water as possible.

Check out my calculator at pricelessbrewing.github.io/biabcalc

I'll tell you how big your mash volume will be, and how much you should sparge with to get it to fit. Crush as fine as you can since you can.

 

[BrewByBerg]

I can't fit a full volume mash either when I BIAB so I dunk sparge in a second pot. You could do it in a bucket if needed. I found I get much better efficiency dunk sparging (and stirring the crap out of it) than using a pour over sparge. I tend to get around 76-79% with a regular grainbill, 70-72% on really big beers. Yours looks to be down in the low 50's which I agree is pretty low. I would definitely consider your crush, how are the rest of your parameters like temp, are you checking pH?

I think Ph and all my temps are fine. Also, The amount of hops I used in his beer were double IPA amounts. Since my efficiency was low, how hoppy is this beer going to be? It says in beer smith the ibus are 99 lol, I think this beer will be about 6.5% so do you think it'll be okay?

 

[DurtyChemist]

You need to setup beer smith to match YOUR equipment. Beer smith assumes 68% efficiency and you're below that. I hit 70-75 with full volume BIAB(just about ge same as three tier) so crushing to flour isn't required but might help YOUR brewing.

Stir your mash after 20 minutes and check the temp. Don't just "think" your temps and pH are good. CHECK THEM so you know.

Since it is a double IPA I wouldn't worry about the IBU number at all. I believe they come more from how long you boil than the gravity of your wort.

As far as using full volume water for BIAB a simple way is to use beer smith to tell you how much water you need, figuring out your grain absorption amount and knowing how much is displaced by your grain. You could probably have done 7 gallons with 16.5 pounds of grain and not overflowed your pot. You could also put them in a plastic bag before you begin heating the water to check. Or check using your fermentation bucket to see how many gallons they increase your strike water. You'll just have to find out what works for your brewing system.

 

[shetc]

www.biabrewer.info

 

[BrewByBerg]

You need to setup beer smith to match YOUR equipment. Beer smith assumes 68% efficiency and you're below that. I hit 70-75 with full volume BIAB(just about ge same as three tier) so crushing to flour isn't required but might help YOUR brewing.

Stir your mash after 20 minutes and check the temp. Don't just "think" your temps and pH are good. CHECK THEM so you know.

Since it is a double IPA I wouldn't worry about the IBU number at all. I believe they come more from how long you boil than the gravity of your wort.

As far as using full volume water for BIAB a simple way is to use beer smith to tell you how much water you need, figuring out your grain absorption amount and knowing how much is displaced by your grain. You could probably have done 7 gallons with 16.5 pounds of grain and not overflowed your pot. You could also put them in a plastic bag before you begin heating the water to check. Or check using your fermentation bucket to see how many gallons they increase your strike water. You'll just have to find out what works for your brewing system.

Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it. After fixing my equipment profile in beer smith, with 16.5lbs of grain it said my OG was 1.067, I hit 1.062. Does this seem a little bit better?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Please post recipe, and the MEASURED volume into the fermenter. expected OG means nothing if your volume is off...

 

[brewprint]

Beersmith can be a SERIOUS PITA to set up for BIAB IMO. Sorry for the caps but it took me forever to figure it out.

I achieve 70-80% typically doing full volume 5 gallon batches with anything with an SG <1.065. Above that I have to increase the mash water and boil longer or more vigorously.

Keep in mind that the more water that you use for mashing the more sugars are released. Therefore totally eliminating the need of an extra step of sparging. Unless of course you have a small pot making it impossible to do a full volume mash.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Beersmith can be a SERIOUS PITA to set up for BIAB IMO. Sorry for the caps but it took me forever to figure it out.

I achieve 70-80% typically doing full volume 5 gallon batches with anything with an SG <1.065. Above that I have to increase the mash water and boil longer or more vigorously.

Keep in mind that the more water that you use for mashing the more sugars are released. Therefore totally eliminating the need of an extra step of sparging. Unless of course you have a small pot making it impossible to do a full volume mash.

Agreed on beersmith, don't get me wrong, it's a great piece of software, but the GUI leaves much to be desired. I reached out to brad about a month ago about maybe helping out/working for them and it turns out I don't know enough languages. Didn't even recognize two of the ones he said they used to build it.

 

[shetc]

What were the languages?

 

[shetc]

BTW, I point people to the www.biabrewer.info site as it has a calculator designed specifically for BIAB. Once you get the hang of it, you will make very good beer.

 

[brewprint]

Agreed on beersmith, don't get me wrong, it's a great piece of software, but the GUI leaves much to be desired. I reached out to brad about a month ago about maybe helping out/working for them and it turns out I don't know enough languages. Didn't even recognize two of the ones he said they used to build it.

I do like the software since I can store my recipes in there. I always check my kettle height using yours though still. I asked him to implement the kettle height in the software and he's not into that. Oh well.

 

[Gavin C]

I think Beersmith is a great tool. It is my one-stop-shop for everything barring mash pH and water addition calculations. (Bru'n Water for that)

I would advise against using any of the default equipment profiles. Just setup your own and call it 1My BIAB setup or anything with 1 in front of it. Always appears first. Same applies for mash and fermentation profiles. Eg: 1MY ALE, 2My Lager, 3My Hybrid etc.

Be as thorough as you can with your data entry. Weight of mash tun, material of mash tun, temperature of mash tun(same as strike temp) etc.

For pointers check out my thread and article below. Covers a few of the more commonly asked questions when folks are looking to refine the process. All information I have gleaned from HBT I hasten to add. Nothing revolutionary. Might be of use.

Some points that spring to mind.

Crush the grain fine

Use a big pot if you can, full-volume no-sparge is very easy to nail down as a process. Be exact with temperatures, volumes and gravities, don't futz the numbers with samples at the wrong temperatures, insulate the mash.

If you want to look at water chemistry you need to know what's in the water, what profile you want and some of the do's and don'ts regarding additions. if you want to go down this road head over to the Brew-science forum. Tons to learn there.

Eliminate chlorine and chloramines

Squeeze the snot out of the bag or allow it to drain over the pot for as long as it will drain. I squeeze and get <0.05 gallons of absorption per pound of grain.

Use a good bag or double up 2 not so good bags

 

[DurtyChemist]

Thanks for all the info, I really appreciate it. After fixing my equipment profile in beer smith, with 16.5lbs of grain it said my OG was 1.067, I hit 1.062. Does this seem a little bit better?

It's better. Look through everything when you aren't brewing to see how much you can adjust. You'll be amazed. There is so much you can put into that software and I only have the mobile version.

Start by taking gravity and volume readings pre boil and recording this. It will help you determine your mash efficiency. Some people crush to flour and some such as myself use the store crush and hit good efficiency.

 

[BrewByBerg]

Update,

I brewed yesterday using the squeeze method and doing a dunk (tea bag) method to extract as much of those sugars as possible. My target OG was 1.060 in beer smith and I hit it right on the nose. Pretty happy about that.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Gavin C]

Great result!

 

[brewprint]

Excellent!

 

[DurtyChemist]

How were your trub estimates and pre boil numbers?

 

[pdog44450]

Personally, I mash, dunk sparge, squeeze the bag, then whatever water I need to add left, have somebody hold the bag over the pot while I pour the water over it. Then squeeze the bag again, put it in a colander over a bowl for a few minutes then boil.

 

[mgr_stl]

Personally, I mash, dunk sparge, squeeze the bag, then whatever water I need to add left, have somebody hold the bag over the pot while I pour the water over it. Then squeeze the bag again, put it in a colander over a bowl for a few minutes then boil.

I think this is pretty much my plan for my first BIAB.

 

[pdog44450]

I think this is pretty much my plan for my first BIAB.

That's how I did my first ever BIAB and that's how I still do it to this day. I've never done AG without doing BIAB because of how simple it is, I'd definitely recommend it

 

[mgr_stl]

For a dunk sparge, what would the minimum dunking vessel size that would work for an 11 pound grain bill? Also, is there a minimum amount you'd be able to dunk in to completely cover the grains?

 

[wilserbrewer]

For 11 lbs of grain, I would think a 5-6 gallon bucket would be large enough. Guessing you'd want at least a gallon or two. Ideally half initial runnings, and half sparge is the most efficient in theory....say two gallons for a 5 gallon batch...ymmv

 

[mgr_stl]

Great info, thanks wilser!

 

[Firewalker11]

I am hitting my OG every time with Beersmith, 1.065 OG, 81.7% EFF on the 2 hearted clone, recirculating with a $15, 24V Chinese pump running off a laptop adapter. Dunk sparge in 1/2 gallon of water, let sit until my wort comes to a boil and squeeze the bag until my testies hurt!

 

[mgr_stl]

Dunk sparge in 1/2 gallon of water, let sit until my wort comes to a boil and squeeze the bag until my testies hurt!

First off, I think you're squeezing the wrong bag if your testes are hurting.

Second, it seems like 1/2 gallon wouldn't be enough to dunk sparge in. How do you get all of your grains in such a small amount of water? I'm probably missing something.

 

[Firewalker11]

Yupper, its a HARD squeeze too!

When the grain is still saturated from the mash and is put into the bucket with 1/2 gallon of water, the water actually covers all of the grain in the bag. It's not really a "sparge" in that sense but a way to keep fluid around the grain while I wait for the boil temp to rise. In any case, its fast, no extra work as the sparge water is around 130° (never bothered to temp it) by the time the grain bag makes it into the bucket as the sparge water is drained off the pot when I am heating to my strike temp.

 

[mgr_stl]

When the grain is still saturated from the mash and is put into the bucket with 1/2 gallon of water, the water actually covers all of the grain in the bag.

Ah ha! Saturation was the part I was missing. So I guess a bottling bucket could work for this, right?

 

[Firewalker11]

IMHO, as long as the grain is covered with water, the sugars can leach out. I am going more for a rinse but I'll take any converted sugars that come from the dunk/sparge happily.

Next up is a room temp rinse to see if I can pull more sugars away with a cooler temp rinse.

 

[mgr_stl]

For those who have used this:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

I assume the "wort volume" is the amount you actually put in the fermenter?

If so, I got an efficiency of 73% for my first BIAB despite not double crushing. The folks at the LHBS told me not to because their grain mill won't really crush it more my doing that. It was some sort of double roller mill powered by a power drill. They said it would just make a terrible sound and accomplish nothing. Sounds suspect to me, but I respected their request.

Now I'll be looking to finding an online vendor that will double crush, though I'm certainly happy with the efficiency I got for my first go round.

I made "Da Yooper's House Pale Ale" and sparged with 1.5 gallons of room temperature water by pouring it over the grains. And I squeezed quite a bit.

 

[brewprint]

For those who have used this:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

I assume the "wort volume" is the amount you actually put in the fermenter?

If so, I got an efficiency of 73% for my first BIAB despite not double crushing. The folks at the LHBS told me not to because their grain mill won't really crush it more my doing that. It was some sort of double roller mill powered by a power drill. They said it would just make a terrible sound and accomplish nothing. Sounds suspect to me, but I respected their request.

Now I'll be looking to finding an online vendor that will double crush, though I'm certainly happy with the efficiency I got for my first go round.

I made "Da Yooper's House Pale Ale" and sparged with 1.5 gallons of room temperature water by pouring it over the grains. And I squeezed quite a bit.

73% is good and my guess is because you sparged.

There's debate about double crushing. Meaning that the only thing that it really could accomplish is crushing a grain that was missed the first time.

I don't have a mill but there are a few LHBS I shop at. One already has the mill set up to be almost like a dust and that's where it's only ran through one time.

I find that by stirring during the mash every 15 minutes instead of every 20 (total time 60 minutes) gets me above 70 and sometimes 80%. That's with a double crush. No Ph testing or any other stuff like that. Just plain ol city water.

 

[mgr_stl]

I used city water this time as a starting point, and also stirred every fifteen minutes.

 

[brewprint]

I used city water this time as a starting point, and also stirred every fifteen minutes.

I highly doubt that you'll get much better by doing anything else. Seems like guys that are using 3 vessels are strugging sometimes hitting 70%.

 

[mgr_stl]

I just hope I get about the same efficiency next time.

Consistency is king, right?

 

[doug293cz]

I just hope I get about the same efficiency next time.

Consistency is king, right?

As long as your efficiency is acceptable to you, then consistency is more important. Without consistency, there is no way to predict the outcome of a brew session.

Brew on