Natural Carbonating Keg Beer Explodin

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newbuffalo

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Hello all,

I’ve switched over to 5 gallon corney kegs for my home brews and they keep coming out explosively carbonated. I’ve cut the priming sugar down 1 ½ oz, my basement holds a pretty steady 64F degrees. I think what I need is some sort of bleed valve like on the primary to let the gas out once it hits 20psi. I looked around the net and haven’t found a relief valve, should I just be purging the kegs every day until it stops building up, then put it under forced CO2?
It may be I need to just keep experimenting, but it’s been 3 batches in a row where I keep lowering the sugar. Thanks for any suggestion you can offer.

Bill
 
Stop priming and force carb. It is easy and you can control what volume of co2 you want.
 
You can control the amount perfectly with a spunding valve, and you can do it towards the end of primary fermentation if you used the keg as a fermentor. Otherwise, transferring, priming, and spunding will work very well. the spunding valve comes in handy for counter-pressure transfers as well. ;)
 
Thanks guys, now that I know to look for "spunding" I see a whole bunch of designs on the net. I tried to force carb my first two and they were both horribly under carbonated, so I thought i would switch back to natural and then they exploded. Everything tastes fine, its just at one extreme or the other in the kegs.
 
Remember, the major part of fine tuning carbonation is temperature. Pressure and temperature are relative to one another, so be sure you know your temperature before you set for wanted volumes of CO2 ( I realize you said your basement holds 64*F). I usually use Beersmith's forced carbonation measurements to know where to set my spunding valve when using the last gravity points to carbonate during my primary fermentation. They have a nice priming measurement as well.

I will also mention, but it seemed to not be a problem for you, that cornies sometime need to be set with about 5 psi before you naturally carbonate in them. The way the seal works it sometimes doesn't get set with pressure and just leaks. Again, you obviously got too much pressure, but wouldn't it suck to go trough all this work and have none :(? I use Sankes and never have worries, plus I am always higher than 5psi at any moment after the start of fermentation. The spunding valve will free you up and not make you worry so much. Make sure you go a little above your wanted pressure @ temperature and then bleed down from there for perfection. Or, while you are setting your seal with pressure in your keg, go above your wanted volumes and then you can adjust your spunding valve a touch higher (1-2psi) than where you want it. Then you have nothing to do until the beer is finished and you know your valve is set right.
 
That would explain the problem I had the first time I kegged anything, my english mild was completely flat. When I read the chart for force carb it 22psi at 64 degrees. If I understand it right I just put that on and forget about it until I want to drink beer, or am I suppose to bleed it off after some time has passed?

I didn't know beersmith did that, I'll have to monkey around with it again.
 
You need to flip the keg over and get the gas under the beer... Then rock the beer gently for 30 min... then flip it back over and fridge for an hr... In a few days it will be perfect, but it's carb enough to try!..

HB on IPhone
 
I hit it with 40 psi.. And I release it before j hook my gas side up otherwise you send beer in your hose...

HB on IPhone
 
You need to cool the beer down before it will absorb CO2. After kegging I let it set in the fridge all night. By morning its down to about 38 degrees. Then I apply the CO2 - 35 psi for 48 hours, then back it down to about 10 psi. After about 3 days at 10 it's ready to go.
 
That would explain the problem I had the first time I kegged anything, my english mild was completely flat. When I read the chart for force carb it 22psi at 64 degrees. If I understand it right I just put that on and forget about it until I want to drink beer, or am I suppose to bleed it off after some time has passed?

I didn't know beersmith did that, I'll have to monkey around with it again.
If the volumes you wanted said to do 22psi @ 64*F then that is all you needed to do to get that volume of carbonation. It would take it a couple of days to equalize head space pressure and beer pressure. Shaking and rocking allow for faster absorption and faster equalization of the head and beer pressure, but you can just let it sit there it just takes longer.

Yep, Beersmith has a way to tell you needed psi for a input temperature and a input wanted CO2 volumes.
You need to flip the keg over and get the gas under the beer... Then rock the beer gently for 30 min... then flip it back over and fridge for an hr... In a few days it will be perfect, but it's carb enough to try!..

HB on IPhone
I don't understand exactly what you are saying, but if by getting the gas under the beer you mean inputting it from the bottom of the beer, then you are right that this helps it absorb faster into the liquid. I used to add CO2 in my liquid out port and shake the keg as I was carbonating. This works well, and you only hear the CO2 regulator when the beer needs more pressure from the liquid absorbing the gas into solution.
I hit it with 40 psi.. And I release it before j hook my gas side up otherwise you send beer in your hose...

HB on IPhone
Not sure here what you are saying here either, but if you hit the flat beer with an over-pressure it also helps to force more gas into solution faster. One would want to over-pressure at first and then set the regulator for wanted pressure later on to make sure you get the CO2 volumes right. Over-pressure and then shaking works great and the next day things usually equalize and you have a much lower pressure than you were first charging the keg with.
 
Not sure here what you are saying here either, but if you hit the flat beer with an over-pressure it also helps to force more gas into solution faster. One would want to over-pressure at first and then set the regulator for wanted pressure later on to make sure you get the CO2 volumes right. Over-pressure and then shaking works great and the next day things usually equalize and you have a much lower pressure than you were first charging the keg with.

Right but if your co2 is at 10-12 for normal pouring and you keg is is under 30-40 it will back fill your hose on the gas side... Just a helpful hint
 
There should not be any beer in your gas line at all. The gas check valve helps with this, but unless you are over-filling your keg to the point it is over the gas side dip-tupe (Which I have no idea why there is even a short dip tube there on corny kegs) you should only have gas that would go back to the lower pressure in the tubing. This is another reason I love Sanke over Corny, but that is a whole other debate and personal preference is completely ok no matter which style you choose. Your keg should not be at 30-40 psi once the temperature has dropped to serving pressures. For example from the Beersmith software: 1st say you were going to force carbonate your pale ale at 2.3 volumes after your crash cooling (so the beer is nice and cold and readily accepts gas into solution faster) and your beer at this point is 35*F. To get 2.3 volumes of CO2 into that temperature beer would only require 7.72psi on your regulator. naturally carbonating you would of course be higher, so... 2nd lets say you wanted 2.3 volumes in your pale ale at natural carbonation temperatures (same as fermentation or even higher if you want) at say 67*F. That would mean you would want your regulator or your spunding valve (depending on if you wanted to naturally carbonate or force carbonate) set to 23.96 psi. After you have finished carbonating, either naturally or forced because it doesn't matter in this example, you will drop the temperature of your beer down to serve. At which point lets say you are serving at 40*F-45*F. The internal pressure of your keg and beer is now no longer 23.96 psi, but has dropped due to temperature to 10.10 psi - 12.54 psi (relative to the 40-45*F). This is right at the pressure you were talking about forcing beer back up your gas line. I could see if your keg at that low a temperature was carbonated to the higher levels of 30-40 psi how it would be forced back into the gas line, but that would be beer as fizzy as soda pop.

I think you are missing the point that the keg pressure drops or can be raised with nothing more than temperature, without adding or taking away any pressure that was already there. Volume is volumes, but psi will change with temperature... doesn't mean you have fizzier or flatter beer because of psi change, only with CO2 volumes changes. Hope that helps clear things up a little bit. Oh, and I chose a pale ale because the serving pressures are right about what you should carbonate one at, so the keg pressure should be very close to serving pressure and not cause any problems. This is the reason lighter American lagers are served so cold, to keep the serving pressure lower as well as allowing for a more carbonated beer not going flat from such low serving pressures.
 
Wortmonger, I'd argue that light American lagers are served so cold so you can't taste how truely awful they are. Any effect on carbonation and serving is a secondary benefit.
 
Getting beer in the gas side only happened twice . both times I left the beer on 35-40 psi... Having the gas valve off on that particular line will allow some beer to escape. You are right about over filling The keg.. I'm a hm brewer I want every last drop...lol.. Maybe it's because after hitting The beer with gas I flip my keg over and allow the gas to rise To the bottom of the keg. then flipping the keg right side up to allow the beer to settle and let is sit on 12 psi.. Thanks for the input ... I just kegged my " teach me how to Dunkle" and I wanted it to carb and lager a tad longer so it's sitting at 10 psi and is carbd beautifully .. So it seems I don't need to raise the psi as much. I do cold crash all my beers so it's at 40-45 to begin with...
 
I guess the only thing I am not understanding now is why you flip the keg. When you flip the keg the gas instantly goes up the side of the keg before it can get any beer on top of it. You say you want to get the beer on top of the gas, but there is an easier and more efficient way to do this. All you need to do is force carbonate your keg through the normally beer-out post. Then you have an outlet under your beer for the gas to rise through. Even this isn't as effective as time itself though or shaking.

You should be along the right track with a Dunkel. I show style is 2.2-2.7 volumes. That's 9.02-14.44psi @ 40*F and 11.37-17.22psi @ 45*F, so maybe a little low to style at 45*F with 12psi, but right on with 40*F and 12psi.
 
I only flip it cause I'm under the impression that the gas will sit on top of the beer and slowly soak into the beer... Where's if I flip the keg upside down and shake it it will allow the gas to naturally rise throu the beer and then flip it again and the gas will rise again throu The beer force carb in a shorter time frame... It maybe a Lil over kill but it works for me!!
 
To each his own, lol. Gas going into solution though is all about surface area, temperature, and pressure. Ideally, one could get the greatest CO2 into solution the fastest by force carbonating at near freezing temperatures. One can't really do this with natural carbonation, of course, so that is why I just do it at fermentation temperatures with my spunding valve.

If I used a Corny and wanted to force carbonate the most efficient way, I would add a stone to the inside of the keg on the gas port. Then I would get my beer down to as close to freezing as possible and charge the keg with pressure while laying on its side (with the gas port underneath the beer of course). I forgot to mention I would first purge the keg of any O2 before doing anything, even adding my beer. If you start your charge low and move up to wanted pressure slowly, you get the maximum amount of surface area, since you are making bubbles as well as utilizing the larger head space surface area on the beer. I would shake the keg with every step up on the pressure and wait for the regulator to stop hissing, then repeat until I was at wanted pressure per temperature to get my volumes.

That's a lot of steps past what I do now though. I love fermenting in a Sanke. It is just too easy to ferment for 3-4 days, then spund the keg and set it for my wanted volumes while it is finishing fermentation. Then when the time is up after crash cooling or lagering, I just filter during a counter-pressure transfer into another Sanke and I'm good to go.
 
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