My semi walkin 5000 btu fermentation chamber

CornyKegs 728
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That 3rd picture is the window. I haven't put the outer cladding on yet. There is no fridge. The first version was built around a bar fridge and I used the door on the side of the chamber. The fridge couldn't even keep the interior temp below 70, because it had internal evaporation coils that radiated heat inside the chamber. So I switched to the AC design after seeing your thread. I ended up moving the AC unit to the other end because it is farther from the door. The box itself is very well insulated. I used styrofoam panels with reflective coating on the inside, covered with pink bat, and spray foamed all the joints. The only air loss is the door, which i am going to solve with weather strip (I live in Canada so it's not hard to come by).

So I have run the system for 1 hour and it has taken the interior temp from 70 down to 50! SUCESS! Thank you very much. Maybe I will name my next lager after you!
 
Keep an eye on it. The temp will probably start going the other way soon unless you wired a second controller to defrost the A/C. That's what happened with mine. The coils will freeze into a solid block of ice, and the chamber will start warming up. You said your temp controller is a dual stage right? Does that mean it has two temp probes? If so, you may be able to use it to defrost the A/C.
 
Earlier in this thread people asked for drawings and dimensions for this chamber. I finally stumbled across them today. They may not be worth anything to anyone but me, but I'm used to that. The last page is just a sheet I had when calling around for prices.


image-3560682652.jpg



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Single temp probe with 2 relays. I have a small space heater that I will be using in the winter, since this is in my garage. I will keep an eye on it. I checked this morning and the temp is holding steady. I think because it is a smaller space I should be ok.
 
armymedic942 said:
Single temp probe with 2 relays. I have a small space heater that I will be using in the winter, since this is in my garage. I will keep an eye on it. I checked this morning and the temp is holding steady. I think because it is a smaller space I should be ok.
Click to expand...

Was it sitting at what your temp controller was calling for?
 
Guys, I've been thinking about my A/C unit running my ferm chamber. It runs about 1.5 min approx every 40-min and then shuts off. When it shuts off, the compressor is running. Is it bad for these things to just shut off the power with the compressor running. It is only a cheap GE 5,050 BTU unit that cost $99. So, I know I'll probably have to replace it in a year or two...but maybe I'll get more out of it.
 
Depends on what type of controller you are using. Most AC units require a 3 min rest before a restart, so if your controller has the option (like mine) program a 5 min relay lag to prevent damage to your compressor and you will be fine
 
Yeah, shutdown isn't what you have to work about. Starting back up too soon is what will kill the compressor. As long as you have a delay built in to let the pressure equalize, you shouldn't have any problems.
 
Nah, it takes at least 40-min before it cycles on again. It has been running this way all summer. I'm still using an STC-1000. As stated before, either here or in my thread, I was going to buy a CoolBot, but never did. I don't need to go below 50F and mine handled that fine when I tried it. So, I'll stick with the STC.
 
just got my STC in today. what gauge wire is recommended? I have a few old 18 gauge computer power cords at my disposal.. wondering if that would be sufficient...

i really only need this thing to get my beer down to 50*F and hold it. I have an immersion chiller built into my conical lid for crash cooling..
 
armymedic942 said:
If you are talking about main power, it depends on the amperage you are drawing. For an AC unit I wouldn't go any lower than 14
Click to expand...

Yes. 14 is the smallest you should use.
 
so here's my A/C diagram:
original.jpg


this is how I'm thinking to wire the STC to control the compressor:
stc-wiring-1.jpg


does this look right? :mug:

the a/c main power will be on a ranco with the ranco's temp probe in a thermowell in my conical.. my concern with that is if the ranco cuts powerto the unit, it cuts power to the STC, which will reset once it comes back on and cause freeze ups. right?
 
I believe the legend is mislabeled. 6 is the capacitor, 7 is the overload protector and THERMOSTAR is the thermostat... I thinks..
 
boredstate said:
so here's my A/C diagram:

this is how I'm thinking to wire the STC to control the compressor:

does this look right? :mug:

the a/c main power will be on a ranco with the ranco's temp probe in a thermowell in my conical.. my concern with that is if the ranco cuts powerto the unit, it cuts power to the STC, which will reset once it comes back on and cause freeze ups. right?
Click to expand...

The STC will maintain its settings when it regains power. As for the diagram, I'm out and about and can't take a good look at it at the moment.
 
Ok. Problems so far. You have a neutral and a hot wire going to the cooling circuit. Bad juju. That will last exactly one operation, and boom. You'll let all the magic smoke out of your STC. Read back through the thread and check out how I did the STC. I have both my controllers controlling the same circuit. In your case, the ranco will call for power, then send it to the cooling circuit on the STC, which will send it on to the A/C as long as the coils aren't frozen. Both controllers stay on, and one isn't cutting power to the other one. Do you plan to have the fan running 24/7 as others have, or is it just going to run when the compressor runs? You could use a couple computer fans if you didn't want to do any more wiring on it.
 
yeah i figured it'd be a mess. my brain gives me the middle finger when i try and figure this kind of stuff out. i do appreciate the look over.

i don't really have a need for the a/c fan to run 24/7, so just when it calls for cooling. i have 2 small box fans circulating the air around the conical at all times

i'll read through again and see if something doesn't click... thanks
 
Like n240sxguy said, you are making things too complicated for yourself. wire your STC to a standard outlet and plug the AC into that. Then just move the temp sensor bulb on your AC outside of your ferm chamber.

I was trying to get all fancy as well, and after a week of screwing around.....that is where i am at and it works brilliant. we have a saying in the army. KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid. I should have listened the first time....lol. good luck
 
yeah I'm pretty good at over complicating things.. lol.. i do have my a/c sensor connected to a heat source (taped to an always-on fermwrap), so I'm getting into the 56-58 range in its current state. My fermentation chamber is my guest bathroom. the window unit is in the window, of course.. I don't know why, but my brain is convinced the thermostat on the A/C needs to be completely bypassed instead off just tricking it, and the compressor needs to be controlled separately by the STC. i guess its the idea that if the unit starts icing over, the compressor is killed but the A/C main is still on with the fan running to defrost the coils quicker than just killing the entire unit..

Same basic idea, just more visual aids.. I still fee like something is wrong though..

stc-wiring-outlet.jpg


I'm just going to wire the STC like a typical installation and wire a male plug to the compressor and plug it into the cooling outlet.
 
Do you have that room super insulated? If not, it will never get much cooler than you are now, and the coils will probably never freeze up with that temperature. Be careful where you wire into the compressor circuit. You'll have to make sure it's before the capacitor, or it won't start up.
 
Well, I don't have any additional insulation besides taping up the air leaks on the doors & overhead a/c vent, but the walls, & ceiling were well insulated when the house was built. the window is insulated (not sure of the rating) and the doors are pretty solid as well.. it's definitely not as efficient as it could be, but I'm going to be building a chamber in the near future out in my garage so that we can have our spare bathroom back in operation anyways. what I have now works well, I'm just being greedy and trying to squeeze a few more degrees out of it.. if I can maintain 50-51 F, I'll be happy. it was getting down to 49-50*F when I had hardwired the compressor, but of course it froze up before the beer hit the target. I didn't bother with it again after deciding i'd get the STC to prevent the freeze ups.

I plan on using the hot lead going into the compressor. according to the diagram it's before the overload protector & capacitor. would it make a difference tapping into the neutral before or at the cap? in the diagram I show it connected at the cap, but should it in between the comp. & the cap? or should that BK neutral wire be disconnected from the cap and wired straight from the compressor to the neutral on my plug?
 
I would leave the neutral alone since the STC is only switching the hot anyway. You could just cut the hot wire to the compressor and wire it straight to the STC.
 
true. I think that's most likely what I'll do in the short term. thanks for all the help!

one quick question though, where should the ground go for the plug wired into the STC power if I'm ditching the outlet?

sorry. I'm dumb with electrical work and honestly probably shouldn't be attempting this myself. but hey, what's the worst that can happen, right? :D
 
boredstate said:
one quick question though, where should the ground go for the plug wired into the STC power if I'm ditching the outlet?

sorry. I'm dumb with electrical work and honestly probably shouldn't be attempting this myself. but hey, what's the worst that can happen, right? :D
Click to expand...

Tie all of your grounds together, somehow. Which plug are you talking about by the way? I was talking about running a single wire from the compressor to the STC. That would eliminate a plug altogether.

Worst thing? Well, you could trip a GFCI, trip a breaker, burn up your A/C, burn down your house, or electrocute yourself. Other than that its harmless.
 
I talked to an engineer at work today, and he's gonna let me borrow a thermal camera next week to see if I have any leaks on my fermentation chamber. Schweeeeeet!!!!!
 
n240sxguy said:
Which plug are you talking about by the way? I was talking about running a single wire from the compressor to the STC. That would eliminate a plug altogether.
Click to expand...

i was talking about the male plug wired to the STC that would plug into the ranco..

so if i'd wire it direct to the compressor, how exactly should i wire the STC? would you pull the hot lead from the A/C power to wire into terminal 1 & 7 with one lead from 8 going to the compressor, and that would be the only 3 wires connected to the STC?

feeling dumb. sorry! :(
 
boredstate said:
i was talking about the male plug wired to the STC that would plug into the ranco..

so if i'd wire it direct to the compressor, how exactly should i wire the STC? would you pull the hot lead from the A/C power to wire into terminal 1 & 7 with one lead from 8 going to the compressor, and that would be the only 3 wires connected to the STC?

feeling dumb. sorry! :(
Click to expand...

Ah. The plug from the STC to the ranco was fine. No problems there.

1&2 still have to have a hot and neutral to operate it. Take your hot from the ranco to 7 like you have in the diagram, but instead of having an outlet, just run the hot from the compressor to 8. The neutral and ground are already taken care of since the main A/C cord is plugged into the ranco. You'll have 4 wires plus the sensor.

I kinda see where you're coming from with this idea now. As long as the main temp controller wants it colder, the fan runs. Makes sense.

You are running into the same mental block I've had to cross before. If you aren't providing hot, neutral, and ground at the same spot, you don't think it can work. You have to baby step your way through it, even as you are wiring it, to force your mind to accept the logic that the hot, neutral, and ground can all come in at separate points. I had some baby stepping on this project too. You'll get through it. Triple check everything before you ever plug it in though!
 
I was thinking about this a little more. I'm not sure how good it will be on the STC to be power cycled dozens of times per day. You could sell the ranco, buy another STC, and still have some money left over. Then all this wiring around the ranco stuff would be history. All this came about because I was thinking of how to switch my fan over to the different ways other people are doing it. i.e. always on, on with cooling like yours, or timed after compressor shutdown like mine. I just thought of another one. I could combine my way and your way. It would run as long as the controller was calling for cooling plus a set time after that. I may end up doing that one. Though, it kinda does that now anyway. It runs, eventually freezes, thaws for 6 min, and starts back up. The fan timer is set to 8 min, so it never gets the chance to cycle off til it reaches temp. Anyway. I vote sell ranco. Or wire everything off one junction box so you can power both controllers at the same time.
 
ok. so the plug's hot & neutral in 1 & 2. plug's hot in 7, compressor's hot in 8... plus sensor wires. ground from plug going nowhere. this is making sense now and is what you were trying to get across initially. got it. finally. ha!

i guess as long as the stc resets back to the original cool set point & delay time after losing power, it wouldn't be a big deal since the box fans are keeping the air moving anyways and the air temp isn't super cold. it's not like i'm not trying to get down in the 30's or anything. just trying to keep the ambient temp as close to 50 as possible...
 
hmm. i posted the above before seeing you last post.. i can use the ranco somewhere else in my setup, like controlling my spare fridge or mash temp even.. another stc is $18, not too hard to swing. i ferment in conicals and also in sankes. sankes fit in the fridge, conicals do not, hence the spare bathroom as my ferm chamber and additional means necessary to control their temps.

i was trying to find a way that the stc would be always on and kick the compressor on & off as needed with the ranco controlling the a/c power.. problem i was seeing is that at times when the ranco killed the a/c unit, the stc could still be trying to kick the compressor on. that's what lead me to come up with that last diagram where the ranco controlled both the stc and a/c power.

so ideally i think, at least in my situation, i need 2 controllers that are always on with the a/c main power always on so the fan runs constantly. the only thing really being cut on & off is the compressor. the a/c thermostat would be bypassed, and a 1st controller reads actual ferment temp and kicks the compressor on & off as needed. a 2nd controller reads a/c coil temp and kills the compressor as it reaches freezing, regardless of what the 1st controller wants, but waits at least 3 minutes until it kicks it back on if the 1st controller is still calling for it, all the while the a/c fan is still running moving air across the coils defrosting in the most efficient way possible.. my brain is taking its sweet ass time trying to figure that solution out (besides the obvious $299 drop on a coolbot), and the last diagram i posted was the closest i could manage to get thus far.
 
You're on the right track. As far as the STC trying to turn the compressor on when the ranco has it off, that's exactly what it will do. That's no problem. The second controller is just a permissive start. It doesn't matter if its contacts stay closed because there's no power there til the first controller sends it to it.
 

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