My plan - can it be this easy?

[paulster2626]

I have some of Edwort's apfelwein that's been in a carboy for a month. It's sitting on a yeast cake of montrachet yeast. I just bought a bunch of fresh pressed and flash-pasteurized cider (about 5.5 gallons) from a local farm (it's freakin' delicious).

What I'm wondering is this - if I just bottle up the apfelwein now, can I just throw this cider on the yeast cake that's left over and let it ferment in to a nice hard cider over the next couple of months? The fresh cider has a lot of sediment in it, and I'm just planning on throwing all in together.

Will this be any good? Will the montrachet yeast work well? Does the sediment in the cider make a difference?

What would you seasoned veterans do?

 

[commonsenseman]

If it were expensive yeast, I'd wash it & make a starter. But since you're using Montrachet (like $1 each I think?), I'd just buy another packet. Your yeast are probably pretty stressed out from that high gravity must anyway.

 

[paulster2626]

Okay then, not an issue. But if I'm going to buy new yeast anyway, should I get something different?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Okay then, not an issue. But if I'm going to buy new yeast anyway, should I get something different?

Depends on what you want for your finished product. In the words of Jack Keller: "Choose your yeast like you would choose a tool." Different yeast strains have different properties: some ferment to a higher ABV, some impart certain flavours, some work better at lower temps, etc...

Have a look at civillekevin's sticky on yeast & sugar cider experiments:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/
it's really useful. (BTW, A big thanks to civillekevin for sharing his results.) You might also have a look at Keller's site:
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

I've switched to ale yeast for my cider, for my taste it turns out a much better product than wine yeast.
Regards, GF.

 

[paulster2626]

Balls. Just checked on the cider, and it's sitting at 1.044. The little paper I wrote the OG down on is lost. What a mess this is turning out to be. Still very sweet, I'm not sure what's the deal with this. There is definitely CO2 in there though, so I know something has happened - just not enough in 2.5 months. Montrachet is letting me down!

I'm cold-crashing this stuff in the cellar now, and will rack it to a new carboy tomorrow and throw in some S05 or Notty (whatever I have lying around). Maybe I'll rack it on some raspberry puree... The Frankencider experiment continues.

Unless cider is supposed to finish at 1.044. Is it? I figured it'd just ferment out to something pretty dry. At least that's what I was hoping for.

All I did was take 5 gallons of fresh cider that had been pasteurized, add a lb. of brown sugar, and toss in some montrachet. Figured it'd be foolproof, like edwort's apfelwein. is there anything in cider that could cause a high FG other than sugar? Most sediment has dropped out, and it's actually quite clear.

 

[UpstateMike]

Unless cider is supposed to finish at 1.044. Is it? I figured it'd just ferment out to something pretty dry. At least that's what I was hoping for.

From what I've seen, cider usually starts at 1.050, that's before adding any sugar. Dry would be 1.000 - 0.995. You have a ways to go if that is what you want.

 

[McCuckerson]

Balls. Just checked on the cider, and it's sitting at 1.044. The little paper I wrote the OG down on is lost. What a mess this is turning out to be. Still very sweet, I'm not sure what's the deal with this. There is definitely CO2 in there though, so I know something has happened - just not enough in 2.5 months. Montrachet is letting me down!

I'm cold-crashing this stuff in the cellar now, and will rack it to a new carboy tomorrow and throw in some S05 or Notty (whatever I have lying around). Maybe I'll rack it on some raspberry puree... The Frankencider experiment continues.

Unless cider is supposed to finish at 1.044. Is it? I figured it'd just ferment out to something pretty dry. At least that's what I was hoping for.

All I did was take 5 gallons of fresh cider that had been pasteurized, add a lb. of brown sugar, and toss in some montrachet. Figured it'd be foolproof, like edwort's apfelwein. is there anything in cider that could cause a high FG other than sugar? Most sediment has dropped out, and it's actually quite clear.

Did the cider have any preservatives in it? I had a batch that would not ferment no matter what I did. Turns out it had something in it to keep it from fermenting on the shelf.

 

[KWKSLVR]

It sounds like the stuff you bought has preservatives in it because it should have finished on down farther than 1.044 in this amount of time. The VAST majority of "fresh pressed" cider that you can buy contains preservatives. If a Orchard sells something like 10K or 20K gallons a year they're required by law to preserve it.

 

[paulster2626]

Ahh rats. I asked the bastards, they said no only pasteurized, but it was just the "front line" lady so she probably doesn't know anyway.

Is there nothing I can do? No magical tablets to save me here?

 

[commonsenseman]

Ahh rats. I asked the bastards, they said no only pasteurized, but it was just the "front line" lady so she probably doesn't know anyway.

Is there nothing I can do? No magical tablets to save me here?

No magical tablet unfortunately. You could try building up a large acclimated starter to see if it will overwhelm the preservatives (if that is the problem). Start with a packet of rehydrated yeast & slowly add cider to it until you have a decent amount going, I'd say at least 1/2 gallon. That along with the recommended dosages of nutrient & energizer may just be enough to get it going.

Good luck!

 

[Devo9]

It sounds like the stuff you bought has preservatives in it because it should have finished on down farther than 1.044 in this amount of time. The VAST majority of "fresh pressed" cider that you can buy contains preservatives. If a Orchard sells something like 10K or 20K gallons a year they're required by law to preserve it.

I don't think Canadian laws are the same on this. But that doesn't mean they didn't add something.

You could always get a good strong starter going and try again... If you add some yeast to a jug of store bought, preservative free apple juice and added it to your brew at the height of fermentation... it might do the trick.

Or whatever the problem is could just presist...

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is it worth a shot?

 

[McCuckerson]

Ahh rats. I asked the bastards, they said no only pasteurized, but it was just the "front line" lady so she probably doesn't know anyway.

Is there nothing I can do? No magical tablets to save me here?

No way, that stuff looked like liquid ass. Don't chance it.